Posts by dgp

57

Evil lying Manipulators OR Captive Duped Slaves Duping Others (or some of both)?

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

i see many threads that address this issue, but i still don't have a clear thought on this.

so i want your help.. the governing body misleads the members- no doubt.

they do change some of their history to make the wt organization look smarter or better-guided by "jehovah.

dgp

My perspective as an outsider is that you're missing another alternative. The members of the Governing Body started as rank-and-file, which means they were duped into believing. As they went up, they became familiar with the true way the organization works. When they became members of the Governing Body, they learned how things really are. And, they were getting older as they were going up the ladder. I don't think their eyes didn't open up. I do believe they are evil liars and manipulators.

For those of you who have read Crisis of Conscience, you might remember how Ray Franz describes that decisions are made on two thirds of the vote. Ray Franz describes how these people could impose a ban on transfusions, for example, while they still knew that some members of the governing body did not agree with the policy. So, are we really to believe they don't know what they are doing? They might get an occasional person who hasn't wisened up, but it is very clear for me that these people are simply benefitting from the operation, and they know it very well.

Just for the sake of comparison, Hitler must have believed that he was saving Germany, but he was insane. Mussolini thought he was doing things for the greater good of Italy, but he was stupid. But, did Stalin really believe he was "liberating" Eastern Europe? Could he think so when he sent his tanks to Czechoslovakia?

From what I understand, there is a whole hierarchy of men in the WTBS. Do you think branch representatives aren't aware of what really goes on? I don't know where the line between the duped and innocent and the wicked is to be drawn, and I am sure that you guys are not in the group of the wicked, but, inevitably, someone somewhere in the organization knows full well that this is all a lie.

27

I think it's time for a witnessing campaign...

by Aussie Oz in

i think its time we had a preaching campaign to reach all known jw.

lets get 'territories' and letter drop them.

tracts under the door.

dgp

The witnessing campaign suggested here might not do much for the overzealous witness, but it will make their recruiting much more difficult. The average worldly knows nothing about failed prophecies and similar stuff, and the public being aware of these things would really be a serious difficulty for the society.

18

sex bad! sex bad!!!

by highdose in

jw
friends

just remembered some insane old laws that were preached from the platform when i was in:.

jazz: is a slang word for sex, therefore jazz is not for christians ( jw's).

rock and roll: ditto it describes sex therefore is bad.

dgp

What about "Be fruitful and multiply?"

54

What do you think happens when you die?

by brainwashed-from-birth in

we were taught you are just unconscience in a grave "hell".

no burning fires or wonderful heaven where all our dreams come true.

i never feel like i am going to heaven.

dgp

I don't know about cant'leave, but it makes me angry. However, I still don't feel it is enough for us to believe that there needs to be something after the grave. There MIGHT be something, yes, but we should take due note that many an abuser has used people's fear of death to control their lives. I have the feeling that many people who post here fell prey to some of those abusers, who kept talking to them about how they would be spared death. I find it terrible that some witnesses indeed have the hope that they will never die. I could not say the witnesses are the only ones who think so, but my impression is that accepting death as a FACT OF LIFE is one of the proofs of normal development.

We the worldlies realize that we will die when we're children. Our religions tell us that, yes, we will die, but we will be resurrected. I can't imagine a person growing up under the impression that he will "never grow old in this system of things". Of course, I am aware that this is one of the ways the WTBS is destructive, and I am aware that witnesses are not guilty for being brainwashed into this belief. But I regret its effects.

8

Family Helping Family, What is the JW Stance?

by garyneal in

an open question to everyone regarding a situation occuring in my life.

as you know, my wife and sister-in-law are jw born ins.

my wife is trying to return but her sister is currently inactive.

dgp

Gary, Happy Guy is highlighing the fact that, whatever you do for your sister in law, it might not earn you any recognition or gratitude. I think the really Christian or human thing for you to do is "so be it", anyways. Just develop the crust you will need to handle that.

8

Family Helping Family, What is the JW Stance?

by garyneal in

an open question to everyone regarding a situation occuring in my life.

as you know, my wife and sister-in-law are jw born ins.

my wife is trying to return but her sister is currently inactive.

dgp

I suppose the parents are not helping to put pressure on the other daughter to join the society. It seems to me that the implication is "We know you need our help; get baptized if you want it".

It's sad, yes. What I find even worse is that the daughter is still talking about how ALL wordly people are no good.

23

1984 And The Watchtower

by Bangalore in

1984 and the watchtower.. http://ebedabodah.blogspot.com/2009/06/1984-and-watchtower.html.

let me ask you: have you ever read the book 1984?

if you have, many things may now be going through your head in regard to the watchtower.

dgp

No Longer Held Captive, you're using one of the tricks of the Watchtower. It is called an "ad hominem" attack, and it is described in full Ray Franz's In Search of Christian Freedom. Just for the sake of the people who will eventuall read this thread, you could not produce any proof of what you said. You just called me names. You attacked me, without even knowing what I look like or where I am, and that is the way you expect people to think that whatever I said here cannot be true. So, I will repeat it again: Being in the Watchtower is like being in Oceania as described in George Orwell's 1984. It is all the same thing, except for the fact that the Party didn't promise an imminent paradise, but one that seemed unreachable. The rest is just the same, and that is because it responds to the very same thirst for power.

It is very possible to learn a lot about the Watchtower without being a member. All you need is being able to read and write, and using Google, which is not particularly difficult. This forum provides a wealth of information. So do Freeminds and JWFacts. Crisis of Conscience, In Search of Christian Freedom, Combatting Cult Mind Control, Releasing the Bonds, Out of the Coccoon, these are all freely available books, and I got them and am reading them. And indeed, I was a lurker for many months. I also was in contact with a witness, who tried to convert me, and gave me the WTBS's Bible, the book "What Does the Bible Really Teach" and, of course, your old friends the Watchtower and Awake! I suppose witnesses don't do that with everyone, do they? I hadn't realized that this person was indeed giving me all that was needed to make me "study the Bible", shorthand for "taking everything the WTBS says as true".

No Longer Held Captive: next time, please have something to say.

23

1984 And The Watchtower

by Bangalore in

1984 and the watchtower.. http://ebedabodah.blogspot.com/2009/06/1984-and-watchtower.html.

let me ask you: have you ever read the book 1984?

if you have, many things may now be going through your head in regard to the watchtower.

dgp

No Longer Held Captive, you're a troll. Show me WHERE I posted that I was looking for a specific person in this board, and tell me WHO that specific person was, in case you know. Where did I write that I would go back to the WTBS, since I have never been a member? Now you're saying that I have the same "initials" as someone else. How come you know someone "similar" to me if you don't know me?

You're a troll, man. I will ignore you and will keep reading and posting to people who are here for real.

21

New movie about Jehovah's Witnesses and their crazy friends

by cyberjesus in

jw
friends

check this out on the sundance channel its a movie about a young sister who gets disfellowshipped and her struggle.

http://www.toverdener.dk/.

http://www.sundancechannel.com/films/500535524.

dgp

Yep, I would be interested in that, too. I saw two trailers in You Tube.

23

1984 And The Watchtower

by Bangalore in

1984 and the watchtower.. http://ebedabodah.blogspot.com/2009/06/1984-and-watchtower.html.

let me ask you: have you ever read the book 1984?

if you have, many things may now be going through your head in regard to the watchtower.

dgp

No Longer Held Captive, I am not a lurker and I am not an active dub, either, and I am not here to wind people up. You can read my original post and you will know why I am here. You can believe me or not, as I won't give any personal information around here. By the way, if you read my posts, you will see I am NOT a witness.