Posts by sd-7

76

more wifey issues. she seen my phone and this web site was op

by unstopableravens in

my son grab my phone and wifey seen this site.

on for a second she was mad.

led into arugment today.

sd-7

Ah. Being caught on JWN, eh? Hey, it beats how I got caught, Verizon didn't log me out of my e-mail for some reason and my wife read my e-mail (which was to a non-JW) and that was it. Three rounds of Borg court later, I was a free man, except for being treated like an industrial-strength door mat by my wife for some time thereafter.

I too have small children, but so far they're not old enough to grasp the issues involved. I'm actually thankful for their innocence. My daughter does note the birthdays or fairies or holidays and asks to change the channel when we're watching TV, but otherwise, nothing else.

I think most folks here would not consider me as the go-to guy for advice, but pretty much no logical reason exists for why my marriage survived that crucible and even got better as a result. So maybe that's worth something. So here's my shot at advice.

Don't fight over the religious issues. Keep your cool as much as possible. Do NOT attack the Society or the numerous JW doctrinal errors. These are all things that will put the walls up. My belief is that a woman will respect you if she sees you are acting as a person of conscience and exercising your freedom to disagree with something you find unacceptable or untrue. If she doesn't, and tries to make trouble, then you stand up to her and fight for your right to believe. She would be hurt if you persecuted her about her beliefs, so she should respect your right to your own. Speak frankly without attacking or name-calling, try hard to keep the emotions out of it.

This is a nightmare scenario for her, I would suppose, so you also need to consider how she feels. If you show her that you are still the same man and are still eager to love and care for her and your children, she will hopefully recognize that her fears were unwarranted. Sometimes earning respect may mean taking the harder road and eating some crap along the way. Lick your wounds, keep learning, keep growing.

Don't let people try to push you towards divorce. They won't have to live with the consequences of that. You will. Consider it as an absolute last resort. A man of honor tries to live up to his word, to his vows, and won't cast them aside without a strongly compelling reason. Not many will understand that, but if you love your wife, you'll wait until the last possible moment before trying to abandon ship.

I might add, as a child who grew up in a 'divided household' (my dad was a non-JW), that your presence in your kids' lives is critical to balancing them out emotionally. (Not saying you would abandon them, of course, just saying that the dynamic would change for them if you left and she got custody or something.) They need to see that people who are not JWs are normal, good people who can still read their Bibles and love God and treat people with decency. You'll be their example, their point of reference when they hear the fear-mongering and black-and-white reasoning at the meetings.

If you've not started reading 'Freedom of Mind' by Steve Hassan, you should. It might be of great help. (I was reading a bit of it to my infant son a few days ago and I noticed there are a lot more references to JWs in there than in his previous works. Nice.)

Most importantly, take care of yourself. Know your limits and look after your emotional needs. This kind of situation can be emotional overload. It's a dangerous time for many people, and you really need to have support, talk to people who can understand, who have been there. I am actually in the same state as you, but much closer to D.C. than you are. Even so, there are a few people in the area who would totally get it, I'm sure some who wouldn't mind meeting you.

If you treat your wife with love and honor, you might be surprised at how it'll change things down the road. It's worth it to at least try.

--sd-7

10

[ZomBie]st-Tower Special Issue: The Faithful and Discreet GRAVE...

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

"thus, it is evident that those who passed away from the generation of 1914..... never passed away.

and so, brothers, we have proven that god's prophetic word is true...".

anyone want to contribute?

sd-7

"tHUS, it IS EVIDENT THAT THOSE WHO PASSED AWAY FROM THE GENERATION OF 1914....

NEVER PASSED AWAY. And so, brothers, we have proven that God's prophetic Word is true..."

Anyone want to contribute? I've got kids to referee and a sandwich to make....

--sd-7

13

The trampling of Jerusalem didn't begin until AFTER Jesus died (easy way to prove WT waaaay off on everything)

by EndofMysteries in

hopefully this doesn't do more bad then good, but it's funny they are going on the destruction of jerusalem in 587/607 time, and appear to have not ever read what jesus said.

luke 21:20-24 - furthermore, when you see jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.

21 then let those in ju?de'a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled.

sd-7

Wow is that a lot of words, and being as long-winded as I am, it's weird that I'm saying that. I'm probably just very tired, is all.

This would be the part where a JW would try to jump away from these verses and you'd have to pin them down and say, look, where in the context here does it indicate that this is a continuation of Jerusalem being trampled on? Jesus says Jerusalem will be trampled by the nations, not will continue to be trampled.

There are just so many ways where the foundation for 1914 falls apart. From Daniel to Matthew to secular history, it's just so full of holes.

--sd-7

529

Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals

by Ethos in

i agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.

i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.

therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.

sd-7

Here's an interesting example of where 607 becomes a problem. Jeremiah 29:1 shows that the statement about 70 years at/for/whatever Babylon was addressed to Jews already in exile in Babylon, exiled a full 10 or 11 years before Jerusalem was destroyed. By Watchtower chronology, the prophecy would've had to be given in the year, what, 617/618 BC? To tell the exiles to wait 10 years for their exile to begin? That I find confusing.

Either way, I think the question is, why does matter what year Jerusalem was destroyed? What exactly does it prove? That a prophecy about 70 years of servitude is correct, or that the 7 Gentile Times prophecy is correct, or both, or none? There's no reason to debate 607 if this is just about a 70 year prophecy that would in our time just be a historical curiosity or maybe even spiritually uplifting at best.

By debating this issue, you're inviting the inevitable question of whether the motive is to prove 607, or simply to prove 1914.

--sd-7

1

The Rise of the Guardians - take your JW kid relatives (grin)

by fulltimestudent in

.

looks like a great kids movie.. .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aplibxhoug0.

sd-7

I thought the title was misleading--I was hoping it would be a sequel to that movie with the owls, 'Guardians of Ga'Hoole'. Ah, well...

--sd-7

12

If the 'slave class' spoke in the first person, would it change how people viewed them?

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

sometimes i think about stuff i read in watchtower literature and wonder if it would be received differently if it was just like, one guy with a bible, ranting as he paced back and forth amongst the jws.

"it's abundantly clear that jesus selected me to be his channel of communication with mankind.

don't you see the proof?

sd-7

Nice link, Scotoma. Yet again, somebody on the Internet had already reiterated what I said, but made it sound much smarter.

--sd-7

12

If the 'slave class' spoke in the first person, would it change how people viewed them?

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

sometimes i think about stuff i read in watchtower literature and wonder if it would be received differently if it was just like, one guy with a bible, ranting as he paced back and forth amongst the jws.

"it's abundantly clear that jesus selected me to be his channel of communication with mankind.

don't you see the proof?

sd-7

Sometimes I think about stuff I read in Watchtower literature and wonder if it would be received differently if it was just like, one guy with a Bible, ranting as he paced back and forth amongst the JWs. Here's how I think it would go:

"It's abundantly clear that Jesus selected ME to be his channel of communication with mankind. Don't you see the proof? If you want to follow Jesus, you MUST obey ME! By obeying ME, you show that you accept God's way of ruling. So why are you questioning me, as if you think you know more than me? You may think I made some mistakes in the past, but isn't it possible that you're just getting too full of yourself, too full of pride? Are you no longer willing to eat the spiritual food I give you? Think of all the trust God has given me. He has given me the commission to preach the good news, and I have done it! I am also overseeing every Kingdom Hall on Earth. I make these meetings possible, and every year I work hard to prepare the conventions and assemblies that teach you how to follow my example of humility and faith. Here's how it works: I lead, and you follow my lead.

"But I digress. Don't you look forward to when I help Jesus make sure your sins are forgiven over the course of a thousand years? The good thing is, if you obey me now, it's training you for the time when you will obey me forever! I will rule over you, just as lovingly and faithfully as I am now! Isn't that wonderful?

"Some who used to be amongst us have left, and now they think they can say bad things about me. But they're lying. And if you listen to them, you might stop believing in me. And whatever good intentions you may have will come to nothing on that day. If you don't accept that God chose me to lead his one true religion, you die. It's that simple. You don't want to die, do you? Of course you don't! You love God! And since you love God, you'll obey me!

"The interesting thing is, some people think that others who say they're anointed should have a say in what's taught. Well, sorry, but that's not what the Bible teaches. It's evident that I am the one who was appointed to teach you the truth. And you know what? I love that fact. I really do. This actually puts you guys in a pretty good position. You get to be slaves under my direction, rather than more like the luggage or the tupperware in Jesus' house like you used to be. How great is that?

"So, that said, the elders I have put in your congregations--they need to obey me, and when they do, you better obey them. Follow simple directions, just like children. Or else be spanked. Like bad children, who deserve to be disciplined. You don't want to be bad children, do you? No, you don't. You want to be good children. Good slaves. Good workers, who will receive your reward, and your freedom, all in due time. Isn't it wonderful, that I have helped you into the light of truth? Yes, it is. So be happy about it! And continue obeying me without question, while keeping your eyes simple and focused on the reward."

...I wonder if JWs would still soak it in if this is how it was presented to them? Maybe only if they were completely isolated from the rest of the world, in a compound [*cough* like at Warwick *cough* *cough*], could that work. Presentations at the doors would get weird, too:

"How are you today? We're letting our neighbors know that the faithful and discreet slave is going to rule the world soon. Why don't you join us at the Kingdom Hall today to learn more about your future rulers? Or would you prefer to die, you and your offspring of fornication, at Armageddon? Just think of how your baby's eyes will rot out of its sockets, and after we've swept up your bones, we'll sweep up hers. And then we'll move into your house. Why put yourself through that, or worse still, live on for a few years longer in this system, completely ignorant of everything about God and the Bible like the rest of your illiterate neighbors, watching your daughter grow up to be a crack-addict, an HIV-positive whore who bows down to pagan idols, worships the demons and seeks nothing but how to fill her immodest, surgically-enhanced bra with more cash she just stole from her latest 'client'? Really, your fate would better be served by just joining us now while there's still time. We can't guarantee your safety otherwise."

Well, that's enough out of me. As a bonus, I'm throwing in a prayer to Black Jesus. I just had an urge to make a joke about Black Jesus today and didn't want to say it out loud, so:

"Black Jesus, prove you exist, and that despite all evidence that strongly points to your being of Jewish descent, and being a dead carpenter, may you roll up on these naysayers in your big-body Escalade, roll down your windows, and blast your gospel truth straight to the heads of all who doubt you. They may not wish to know you, but we do, Black Jesus. Save us all, and don't let the continued stereotypes about your people--who are more than two-thirds of a human in the eyes of the law, thankfully--get you too down. I know there are lot of angry black teens beating and robbing people, or sometimes just beating them and not even robbing them, and they may or may not have mothers that don't love them and fathers that don't even know they exist. But let that not be a reflection on the failure of your gospel, Lord. Let those poor souls whose mothers don't love 'em find You when they go to juvie or when they go to federal prison, and let them find a way to vote despite multiple recent felonies on their records. Most of all, forgive me if I have spoken too much about recent local news events that make me doubt your existence as much as the next randomly chosen person who is asked about you in a nationwide poll. A-men!"

--sd-7

35

Were you afraid of "apostates"?

by everchangingworld in

jw
friends

i remember hearing rumblings of a few that had gone "apostate" and feeling absolute dread of the dark world they had stepped into.

i would re-double my studying efforts.

to me, "apostates" had gone over into the "dark side".

sd-7

I remember watching the awful Star Wars "prequels" and strangely identifying with the character of Anakin Skywalker as he slowly turned to the "dark side". I could sort of imagine this somehow happening with me in the future, but I couldn't think how it would come about.

I had the same experience. Except I thought the prequels were pretty good (until I watched Plinkett's reviews not long ago, clearly I was not being objective about it for a long time...). But the forbidden love thing was the same for me. The feeling of being used and manipulated. The feeling that something was being kept from me that I knew I deserved to know... "The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

I don't think I was afraid of 'apostates'. Someone I grew up knowing became one--she was the daughter of an elder, a firecracker of a pioneer, at least a good ten years or more older than me. Pretty, but somehow not able to find a suitable husband. I was a little curious as to why someone like her who was just plain brilliant would become one. I've yet to find her again, since leaving; last I heard she was in Minnesota.

I think we may have encountered someone who may or may not have at least been exposed to the apostate stuff--she was at the door in the ministry, mentioned something about Rutherford and the Prohibition era. I couldn't help thinking that it was probably true at the time, but of course I said nothing--I was still a true believer, but I knew from reading between the lines in the Proclaimers book that Rutherford was kind of an a--hole, from the way he took over the Society and started centralizing power and all.

There was a time back in college, 10 years ago, that I even found this site and looked at one page on here, briefly. I remembered Googling "Jehovah's Witnesses" and seeing a bunch of "exit counseling" sites turn up. It scared me, but I could still see why exit counseling would be needed--the psychological trauma of leaving would be considerable. But I think I realized at that time that there was a good chance if I did the research I'd find out it was all b.s. and end up wanting to leave, but I was still in school and had no way to move out and escape the wrath of Mom. So...figured I'd go along with it and try to reprogram myself to believe it again.

The only reason "apostates" stuck in my mind was because the Society was stupid enough to keep reminding me they were out there, waiting to trap me with their deceitful, evil words. So when I was finally pissed off enough, I remembered that apostates existed, and that the Society was apparently scared of them, so...I knew it was time to go talk to them and hopefully find the answers that the elders couldn't give me.

"Success!"

--sd-7

24

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-18-2012 WT Study (KNOW DAY HOUR)

by blondie in

jw
friends

day or the hour of the end?.

knowing the exact day or hour when the.

5. how may not knowing the day or the hour.

sd-7

"In one Nazi prison camp, for example, at first the brothers had only one copy of the Bible. So they prayed for further spiritual food."

Wow. So how did that prayer sound, I wonder? "We thank you, Jehovah, for giving us your Word, the Bible. But it's just not enough. We need more spiritual food than the holy book you inspired and authored over the course of thousands of years. Those old stories about Jesus and Moses and all that, it's--look, we're starving here, Jehovah. Where is The Watchtower?"

It boggles the mind--they say the Bible is their final authority and that people should read it daily, and then in every circumstance possible, the Bible is regarded as utterly insufficient as spiritual nourishment for a "true Christian". I guess they used the Bible as firewood after they got those copies of the Watchtower...

--sd-7

1

Fig tree withered...

by Botzwana in

so wifey and i are reading the bible a chapter at a time.

jesus killed the fig tree.

i ask her why does she think he did that...she says it was to teach the apostles that we have the power of whatever we want to do.

sd-7

I say, it was sort of like when you go to the supermarket and you want a specific thing and it's just not there. "This is place is some trash, I hope it closes down--they never have what I'm looking for!" you say.

Basically, Jesus was hungry, and the fig tree was that supermarket. All those figs that would have grown in otherwise got laid off as an object lesson.

Jesus: Bad for the Economy. Bad for America.

Paid for by Restore Our Nation, Inc. Restore Our Nation, Inc. does not endorse any candidate.

--sd-7