sd-7

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Posts by sd-7

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  73

  What on earth happened to the magazines?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for the first time in years today.

  to say that it took me five minutes to read the whole thing would be to flatter the rag.

  it doesn't even seem to contain actual articles any more, just headings and bullet points and pictures.

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  sd-7

  All hail Watchtower progress, hail the theocracy ever increasing.

  I can't help LOL on this one! I started to hear the old song all of a sudden.

  --sd-7
• 
  73

  What on earth happened to the magazines?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for the first time in years today.

  to say that it took me five minutes to read the whole thing would be to flatter the rag.

  it doesn't even seem to contain actual articles any more, just headings and bullet points and pictures.

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  sd-7

  I have to say, even as a JW I was disappointed at how lightweight the newer publications were becoming. There were rarely any deep discussions of anything in any book or magazine. I get wanting to, as my JW brother used to say, 'dumb it down', but...at a certain point you're left with vegetables-for-brains. I mean, how are you so much cooler than 'Christendom' if you're spoon-feeding your own people, who are presumably supposed to reach some sort of maturity at some point? Then again, seeing as it was rare in my congregation to find someone who could actually read, it does make a certain sense.

  --sd-7
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  16

  Faithfull Slave Teaching Leaves something out!

  by DeWandelaar in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for years the so-called faithfull slave has brainwashed us with their doctrine.

  number 6 the possessions?

  according to the text only the servants are being inspected!

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  sd-7

  I think understanding the evil servant is a key here. First, the evil servant has in mind a specific time his master is due to come back. When enough time passes and nothing happens, he begins to wonder if the master is coming back at all. He then appoints himself master, and starts doling out discipline, 'beating his fellow slaves', that would have been reserved only for the master. The master gave him authority to feed everyone, but not to enforce the rules of the household or punish/be the judge of fellow slaves. His job was to do his job, not to make sure everyone else was doing theirs, otherwise he's an overseer, which is a bit different.

  He can be pronounced happy if he's doing what he was told to do when the master arrives. What was he told to do? Feed everyone at the proper time. Was he told to rule in the master's stead, or create new rules and enforce them? No. Was he told to offer predictions from his own mind as to what time the master would get back? No. Was he told to use the master's resources to build really big houses for himself? No. If he bears in mind his position, he wouldn't even think of doing stuff like that. If he had authority to do that before the master came back, there'd be no need for the master to appoint him over all his belongings at the end! It'd be the equivalent of giving him what he already had!

  So...there you have it.

  --sd-7
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  37

  Why do animals grow old and die?...

  by nolongerconfused in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so what is a jw's explanation on why animals grow old and die?.....

  last time i checked, animals did not sin nor did they rebel against god.... so why do they have the same fate as humans?.

  has anyone asked this question?.

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  sd-7

  Does anyone else think the title of this thread would make for a great, '80s style Watchtower brochure or tract? Or is it just me?

  --sd-7
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  87

  Arguments in favor of the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE

  by TJ Curioso in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i received the following explanation in favor of the date of 607 bce.

  accepted comments on the points at issue.. .

  conclusion.

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  sd-7

  I've read C.O. Jonsson's book, though that was probably a few years ago. Pretty technical stuff, but it was clear that the foundation on which 607 was resting was nonexistent just looking at the idea of 'Bible chronology' alone.

  Just read much of Jeffro's website about this issue. Brilliantly executed. A very comprehensive rebuttal to that jehovahsjudgment website. Which, as a website is a massive paradox in its very existence, as it composes a JW response to material that JWs are supposed to be forbidden from reading in the first place.

  --sd-7
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  44

  Brilliant video catches Governing Body red-handed ignoring their own "name-calling" warnings

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here it is.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4sednn9nli.

  .

  cedars.

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  sd-7

  An identifying feature of apostates is jealousy. Really jealous of what? They have nothing I want and certainly I am not jealous of the millions having to drive miles to listen to this hate filled speech.

  Agreed, nugget. Speaking as someone who actually will be wasting fuel and mileage to hear about how I'm quite literally Satan's Masterchef, I am definitely not feeling much by way of jealousy towards JWs. I'm jealous of people who have already seen 'Star Trek' and 'Man of Steel', more than anything.

  Have to say, I'm surprised to hear different straw man examples of apostate 'teachings' than I'm used to hearing. Usually it's stuff like 'they refuse to use the name Jehovah' or 'they have a personal problem with elders or GB members'.

  Ah yes--let's not forget that, I might add. The straw man is being combined with the ad hominem attacks. They set up a position that's vaguely similar to what apostates have said, rather than stating the actual details/facts involved. Hmm. We could probably go so far as to add 'lie by omission' here. None of those three logical fallacies is anything new for the WT, though.

  But this time, IT'S PERSONAL!!!

  --sd-7
• 
  87

  Arguments in favor of the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE

  by TJ Curioso in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i received the following explanation in favor of the date of 607 bce.

  accepted comments on the points at issue.. .

  conclusion.

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  sd-7

  This essay and website has been researched, written, and created by brothers who, at one time, believed that 607 BCE was incorrect, and that 587 BCE was more likely. We read the claims of apostates, and were gullible enough to be taken in by them. After some time we realized that the promoters of 587 were not motivated by “truth seeking”, as they so often claim, but rather from an arrogant desire to simply prove the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York wrong, and to prove themselves more clever or more righteous than Jehovah's people, whom they hold in obvious contempt.

  Ad hominem, anyone? Impressive how the authors of this article seem to know exactly what the 'promoters of 587' were thinking or feeling when they reached their conclusions. Predictably, they attribute the same motives that the Watchtower attributes to anyone who disagrees with them.

  There is a very popular book which advocates the 587 BCE date, written by an apostate with a disturbing cult-like following.

  ...but let's not name the book, or the author, because we certainly don't want people to actually weigh both sides of an argument like a good educator might suggest. Also, there is a very popular magazine which advocates the 1914 CE date, written by a group of people with a definite cult-like following. But let's not go there, shall we? "It would be extremely painful. For you."

  If only 607 were the only relevant issue, heck, I might still be a JW. But even if they were dead right about 607 (in the face of every historian on earth who has no subjective motive at all and determined a date for Jerusalem's destruction based only on available facts and not out of desire to see prophecy fulfilled), that would really accomplish nothing of lasting value to a Christian, save maybe to prove Old Testament prophecies may have been accurate.

  Either way, I'd rather not get into each prophecy on this. Again.

  On the other hand, we as Jehovah's Witnesses are determined to go with thewhole Bible record and what it says rather than unproven writings of

  historians — who may or may not have an ax to grind and reasons to slant history to suit their own beliefs.

  Apparently, everyone else on earth has an ulterior motive except Jehovah's Witnesses. Convenient, isn't it? The Watchtower is written by persons who seem to have an ax or three to grind and have demonstrably not just slanted, but rewritten history to suit their own beliefs. But let's not get distracted here. It seems that there are a number of ad hominem attacks on apostates and historians. "Unproven writings of historians"? So I wonder, where did you get your secular dating system to arrive at a year like 607 B.C.? Maybe from unproven writings of historians. If they're unproven, how do you know it was 607 years Before Christ? How do you even know when any Biblical event happened? Since you brought up how unreliable historians are, the burden of proof is now on you to provide a purely Biblical dating/calendar system that proves 607 B.C. was when Jerusalem was destroyed. Good luck.

  Romans 17:18-19

  So...is there a 17th chapter of Romans I've never read?

  As foretold, Jerusalem's 70-year desolation ended right on time. ( Jeremiah 25:11 , 29:10 )

  The 70-year desolation in Jeremiah 29:10 was told to people who had been taken into exile 10-11 years before Jerusalem was destroyed. By ignoring the context of that verse, you know, like WHO THE MESSAGE WAS GIVEN TO, you can get away with statements like this. Read Jeremiah 29 from the beginning and you'll see that.

  If 70 years begin in 607 BCE, servitude lasts the full 70 years. Nebuchadnezzar is King at start as prophecies stated.

  But not King at the end, 'cause Babylon faced judgment in 539 BC, and it was the judgment on the king of Babylon that ends the 70-year-servitude of Jer. 25, not the return of the Jews to their land, including transit time. So the Jews served Babylon for 68 years, not 70. Unless you're claiming they were still in servitude during their transit time back to Judah...in which case you contradict yourself.

  I'm not even an expert on this, and there's just not a lot of logic here from a cursory analysis. They discard whatever facts don't suit their opinions, same as they accuse their opponents of doing.

  --sd-7
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  36

  2013 Sept WT out

  by Gayle in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  could only just quickly scan it.

  still trying to 'duck' out of 1914.. in a similar way, at the beginning.

  of the 20th century, there were a number.

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  sd-7

  Now, where's you're yellow plane?

  A rare misstep, self. "You're" should be "your". Unless you're asking me where is you are yellow plane? But that doesn't make sense. Well, I know that. My fingers don't always type the right keys. It's called a misteak, man. A missteak!

  --Samuel Dane VII, the Sector that Doesn't Exist-7th Division, also known first as 'SD-7' and later as 'sd-7'
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  36

  2013 Sept WT out

  by Gayle in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  could only just quickly scan it.

  still trying to 'duck' out of 1914.. in a similar way, at the beginning.

  of the 20th century, there were a number.

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  sd-7

  The 1915 Mar 1 issue of the Watch Tower admitted to these changes in the following article.

  It's interesting, if you read the rest of that article, the attitude with which these changes were made. Here's a quote from the same page, the last page of the March 1, 1915 Watchtower, the aforementioned changes are on.

  "So far from the events of our time disproving the chronology, they seem to confirm it. [] The gathering of the nations to the Valley of Jehoshaphat ("valley of graves") is evidently in progress. They are gradually realizing it to be a life and death struggle that will be awfully costly. They do not see, as we do, that it means their destruction--'grinding to powder'. Nevertheless they are apprehensive of what we see coming; viz., the Earthquake of revolution, to be followed by the Fire of anarchy, which will utterly consume them and prepare the earth for Messiah's kingdom, and cause them to hear the 'still small voice'."

  They say, if anything, rather than proving we were wrong, the fact that none of us went to heaven like I told you we would proves I'm right! It doesn't get any more disconnected from reality than that.

  From this paragraph, it is clear that the Bible Students of that time still continued to believe, incorrectly, that the end was going to occur, apparently, from what they're saying, as the direct result of World War I, which would lead to anarchy and then the Kingdom. 98 years later, hey, it ain't peachy, but it ain't anarchy, either. But reading the source material really shows just how much revision to the Watchtower's history is going on.

  Interesting, too, is that the same exact guilt trip is put on the believers as was later used 60 years later after 1975. Note the next paragraph:

  "The present is a time of testing, we believe, to many of the Lord's people. Have we in the past been active merely because we hoped for our glorious change in A.D. 1914, or have we been active because of our love and loyalty to the Lord and his message and the brethren!"

  So if you believed the nonsense the Watchtower writers taught you, it was your motives, your loyalty to God, that are to be called into question, not theirs for misleading you.

  And if you were ever in doubt as to what this religion is all about, another paragraph tells it exactly like it is:

  "If there are some parts where colporteurs find it difficult to make sales because of scarcity of money, there are other parts of the country where money is not so scarce and where high prices for food make the community prosperous."

  Now maybe I'm not clear on what's being said here. Either way, they're selling this message, quite clearly, so either they're being advised to sell it in richer areas, or the reader is being told that the sales of literature from richer areas have resulted in more money coming to Watchtower that can then be...investing in making more literature? used to help Bible Students in need? Not sure. There's only so many ways to interpret that sentence, though, and I don't know if any of them sound particularly good, from a Christian perspective, though from a sales perspective, a business perspective, it sounds just fine. It does highlight that this so-called preaching work, for the majority of the time it has existed, was little more than the sale of books and magazines. Apparently Jesus was okay with turning the very ministry itself into a house of merchandise for Rutherford & gang...until 1990, that is, when 'he realized' we should just follow his words written nearly 2,000 years before to "give free" and not sell the good news of the kingdom to people.

  Just had to throw that out there.

  --sd-7
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  22

  I nearly forgot how Jehovah's Witnesses are programmed to respond to us

  by God_Delusion in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yep, that's right, i nearly forgot that jehovah's witnesses, even the young ones, are programmed with the "la la la i'm not listening" trait.. here's a brief conversation with my sixteen year old nephew, angelo:.

  http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/cult/my-jehovahs-witness-nephew/.

  let me know if you've been taken aback..... .

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  sd-7

  Yeah, I can totally understand your nephew. At 16, I was a zealot, man. In-sane. Not 'mentally diseased', though. Now I am, but not back then. If he's a thoughtful type, he's responding with the training, but deep down, beneath the surface, well, I can speak only for myself, but I know I was terrified of the possibility someone might threaten my faith. I assumed it was the only thing between me and a drug-filled orgy after which I would either die immediately in a car accident or slowly and painfully with AIDS. So...yeah.

  Criticizing the beliefs gets this response. I admit I sometimes pretend to still believe in the Bible for the sake of conversation, sort of an 'all things to all people' kind of approach, though it's mainly to avert conflict more than anything else. Hmm.

  Also, really like your site--I got a laugh out of that logo! It must scare the heck out of visiting JWs. A burning Watchtower???!! Shut down the Internet browser! Quickly!

  Sorry about your dog, though. Not an animal person, yet I've grieved at the death of nearly every animal I've grown up with. So I get the pain of it for someone who cares far more would be far greater.

  --sd-7