Posts by sd-7

53

Please explain God's wisdom in Judges19;22-30

by jam in

the just of the account, two people enter a city and can not .

find lodging.

an old man invite them to stay with him (levite).. this is so weird, all the men of the city come to have sex with.

sd-7

I don't see this story as related to God, per se. He didn't do the crimes against this woman, humans did. But most people apparently knew that was wrong, otherwise the resulting conflict wouldn't have happened, nor would it even have been written down as if it was important.

It is no more or less evil than many of the other events recorded in various parts of the Bible. Murder, incest, more murder, more incest, genocide, rape, and so on. If we ask how it explains God's wisdom, I think we'd have to ask the same question of all the other various bloody accounts, wouldn't we?

I would guess that the obvious parallel with the story of Lot and the men of Sodom might have been implied in the relating of this event in Judges, though. It seems very similar, and was perhaps suggesting that Israel had gotten as bad as Sodom once was since this act of violence could happen. In that, it could be argued, is the 'wisdom' you may be looking for. Perhaps this shocking tale could serve as a serious wake-up call for people to get back to behaving like decent people instead of vicious, sick animals who would do this to a woman. Presumably the Law code would have called for the death penalty for the entire lot of them, based on their intentions, which would be breaking and entering and gay rape, right? So...I'm pretty sure enforcement of the Law or belief in its value might have caused these fellows to not do that. That's the best I can glean from it.

--sd-7

20

Is it normal to feel you have betrayed your spouse when you learn TTATT?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i am trying to look at it from a believing mates perspective.

they married you as a jw expecting you to continue as one.

if you have kids, she enjoyed the stability of both spouses being united.. when you learn ttatt, you find out the wt is a dangerous mind control group and lies to its members and is hypocritical.

sd-7

The key here is honesty. It would be understandable if a marriage mate became upset and felt betrayed if their other half had already come to know TTATT before the marriage but deliberately decided to go through with it anyway.

Yeah, I agree with this. I would say that any attempts on my part to bring up TTATT were my attempts at honesty, but she ignored them and pretty much got me to agree to stay in the org, which I did. I wasn't even actually going to leave the JWs until she brought up the whole apostasy issue at the JC. From that point on, maintaining the aforementioned deal was off, for me.

I think it seemed rather irrelevant at the time, given all the fornication that was going on then. By all logic, I figured we were both toast as far as 'da troof' was concerned anyway. Since she wasn't exactly acting like a JW herself, it didn't particularly make a difference. Really, both of us were living a lie as far as the JWs were concerned; it's just she got away with it and got a slap on the wrist from the elders, whereas I got grilled for a few hours and given the boot. So...if we really wanted to look at it honestly, I'd say we both betrayed each other, in my case.

--sd-7

11

4th Annual Memorial of Freedom

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

dear false brothers and fellow servants of satan:.

this is to inform you that the 4th annual memorial of freedom will be held next monday, april 14th, at sundown.

please make arrangements to bring your own emblems--chocolate milk and pop tarts, or else some other food and beverage or "down, right strong punch" combo of your personal choice.

sd-7

What about Ovaltine?

Ovaltine has many more vitamins and minerals than most other syrups and chocolate powders. Some have wondered if this amounts to an excessive amount of nutrition or if perhaps the milk is no longer chocolate, but perhaps something more, such as a nutritional drink or milk-based energy drink, if Ovaltine is used. We should refrain from forcing our personal opinions upon others. Each must be convinced in his own mind as to whether or not Ovaltine is their personal powder of choice for the Memorial of Freedom.

Your False Brother,

sd-7

85

Jesus had to die? Really?

by punkofnice in

i admit i no longer believe in god and holy books.. thinking of the made up 'universal sovereignty' thing, surely if god existed in the way the holy books describe him then he could have thought of something better than humankind suffering thousands of years and the slaughter of jesus?.

couldn't god have said: 'well, satan is a very naughty boy but you all know how great i am so we can end it now.

i will lovingly kill satan and his mates and that's that.

sd-7

Hi. My name is Daaaave, from Bible Ministries, and I just want you guys to know that Jesus cares for you. He loves us all, and he's going to make it all up to you, okay? I'm detecting a lot of anger here, and I'm just...I'm here to calm this thread down. Remember, Jesus loves, and JESUS SAVES!

--/sarc, sd-7

20

Is it normal to feel you have betrayed your spouse when you learn TTATT?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i am trying to look at it from a believing mates perspective.

they married you as a jw expecting you to continue as one.

if you have kids, she enjoyed the stability of both spouses being united.. when you learn ttatt, you find out the wt is a dangerous mind control group and lies to its members and is hypocritical.

sd-7

To answer this thread's question, absolutely. I think I was probably the worst (some here would/did have more colorful words to describe it) example of that sort of thing, since I had discovered TTATT months before marrying a JW. I knew it wasn't true and I felt awful for involving my wife in this when I could have just let her go and saved us both a lot of pain. Living a lie for the months leading up to her 'sudden but inevitable betrayal' of turning me in to the elders...that was the worst time and for a long time after, it was hard to look in the mirror. I felt like a liar and a cheater. She still doesn't believe me sometimes when I tell her stuff, and probably that situation is at the root of it.

And you're right to feel sad for them. For my wife, being a JW is really the only thing that seems to give her a sense of accomplishment in life. Getting married was probably a big and happy thing for her, and to find out her husband doesn't really believe in the JWs...it's got to be heartbreaking to sit through the meetings. The talking behind her back, the men there trying to 'pick up the slack' because her husband wasn't 'man enough' to stay loyal to the WT? It's got to be difficult wishing your mate was there.

I guess the last few years have made me feel rather less than sorry for her, just because she used it as a license to emotionally abuse me. I'm sure I probably did the same, just for different reasons and in different ways. It creates a toxic environment in which to have a marriage or kids. A Cold War relationship where things can go from quiet and peaceful to hateful in a single moment. Not that I'm doing the self-pity thing about that anymore, just explaining my perspective.

It's just a tough place for them, always will be, whether they treat you well after the bombs have dropped or not. But you've got a choice to make: either betray her or betray yourself. To betray yourself is still going to be betraying her anyway, because she'll never get to know you on an unconditional basis. What you really like, what you really want to do, who you really want to be. What kind of marriage would that be?

It becomes harder to see it from their point of view the longer you're out, because that perspective is so inflexible. But in the end, you can't control how they feel, only how you feel. The best thing to do is forgive yourself, because this betrayal was necessary for the sake of your own growth and well-being. And the only way you can be able to take care of them is to make sure you're taking good care of yourself.

--sd-7

87

July 2014 WT cracks down on apostate debates and 'dance parties'

by EndofMysteries in

in the july 2014 study wt article titled "jehovah's people "renouce unrighteousness".

par 9 and 10 .

9. how did foolish and ignorant debates affect the early christian congregation?.

sd-7

For instance, in the immediate context of 2 Timothy 2:19, we find that Paul tells Timothy “not to fight about words” and to “reject empty speeches.”(

Huh? Since when did they suddenly start caring about context?

Also, it appears that others were introducing controversial ideas. Even if the latter were not directly unscriptural, they were divisive

So if it's not directly unscriptural, then it has to be indirectly unscriptural. What would be an example of an "indirectly unscriptural" idea, I wonder? I guess the target audience is left to wonder, too. Oh, right. The safest bet is to just believe whatever's in the WT. It's 'indirectly unscriptural' if it's not in a WT, even if it is actually Biblically correct.

Good example, as I think of it is, wearing a beard. Perfectly okay, but 'indirectly unscriptural' because 'the brothers' say you should be clean-shaven. The rule itself is unscriptural, but since the 'brothers' made it, and you're not supposed to disobey them, breaking the rule is therefore 'indirectly unscriptural'. Nice.

As for the dancing and drinking stuff, basically it's just the usual building a fence around the potential sin by avoiding a situation altogether. They're not saying nobody can have fun, just that people who are used to having fun beyond what is WT-authorized (ie. used to getting really drunk and naughty dancing) should probably just pass on the fun altogether, just to be safe. No more paranoid than they usually are about 'recreation'.

--sd-7

51

Have You Been Invited To The Memorial?

by minimus in

jw
friends

one of my best friend's, who is an ex elder had two elders visit him at his home yesterday to invite him to the memorial.

he was cordial to them because they were'nt over the top.. so far, i have had no invites, thank god..

sd-7

Surprisingly, no. Although that unfortunate argument last time I was invited by the Mrs. might be a good reason why there's been no invite this year.

Amended: Yes, my wife just invited me on Wednesday. Well, technically, she just asked if I was going to go. Strangely enough, my son started vomiting endlessly at that same moment. (He seems to be okay now, though, thankfully. He also managed to get out of going to the meeting--so it really worked out well, in its own way.) I'm hoping that was just coincidence, but he was doing what I was thinking, is all I can say. I told my wife I wasn't planning to go, and she said she wanted me to be there.

At this point, it hasn't been brought up again. Part of me actually was considering going, but at this point, I couldn't go as a Christian, because I'm not one. If I were to go, it'd have to be for that reason and I'd partake just to show that Christians should partake. But since the ceremony no longer holds even the Biblical meaning for me, it would be preposterous to attend and would not help my efforts to at least not want to strangle all things WT-related.

Also, as I was sitting in my car, two JWs came up and offered me an invite, but I simply said 'no thanks' and left it at that. So I've gotten a double helping of invites.

--sd-7

25

How do you get through the memorial?

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

for family reasons, gorby and his wife and children has to visit the hall at april 14. our family accept that we are faders, but don't accept if we do not visit the memorial.. so, it seems a small investment: one evening love bombing for a year peace and rest.. but i hate the visit.

headache.

meeting the people knowing it's all fake love showing.. how do you get through it?.

sd-7

I deal with it quite simply: a chocolate milk, stirred, not shaken, with the spoon left in the cup.

But seriously though, if you've got an iPod, not a bad idea to bring it and turn it on. That got me through the last convention, just barely.

--sd-7

55

Oh come on!!! seriously?? This weeks wt study!

by stuckinarut2 in

i'm sitting here at the mtg, and i can't believe the mind numbing stupidity of this weeks wt "study"...( i use the word study loosely too by the way...).

how many dumb repeated questions can be posed to try and make a point?.

the opening paragraph illustration re blindness is classic!

sd-7

Hmm. I would actually attempt to read this article that's gotten so much attention, but...I like my blood pressure where it is--nice and stable. Still, it's been interesting to read your comments, folks.

It's incredible. They can literally say 1=2 and have people believe it. This is where the heart of it all resides: it is the literature being studied, not the Bible. The Bible is just there to give the literature a semblance of authenticity.

--sd-7

19

What is the point of Judicial Committees??

by quellycatface in

i've had 2 jc's, both resulted in reproof.. but.....in church, the vicar asks us do reflect quitely on anything that we have done that we're not happy about and to ask for forgiveness in our heart.

knowing that jesus will forgive us, if we are sorry and have faith in him.

good.

sd-7

Well, this is clearly an Old Testament trial at the city gates, except unlike in Israel, the trial is being conducted in private, so that the judges themselves are accountable only to themselves and the corporation they act as franchise managers for.

It's an expression of control and power. Getting you to confess is a demonstration of power, and your presence there is your submission to their authority, a recognition of it.

It's also a powerful way to inflict fear, guilt and shame upon you. Three men in trusted positions who hold a sort of life-and-death power over you--that's frightening if you truly believe it exists. It creates dependency upon the organization itself, as you feel afraid to displease it and thus lose your 'friends' or 'family'.

It's a way to isolate and extract any who may begin to think for themselves. It's a way to protect the 'secrets' of the organization and silence those who might speak about those secrets from within. Thus, it insulates the collective from any critical thoughts.

--sd-7