at 4440 braeburn road, san diego, ca., in the rich and prestigious neighborhood of the kensington heights neighborhood sits one of the biggest embarrassments in the long and continuing list of embarrassments the watchtower society has created for itself.. most dubs know nothing about it, and if it wasnt for a few brief comments about it in the proclaimers book in 1993, even fewer dubs would know anything at all about it.. it is the home once known as beth-sarim (pronounced beth-sareeeem), the house of the princes.. it is a house with a history the society has shown by its historical lack of candor, hopes everyone would forget.
in fact, the society has done just about everything it could do to ensure that its history will be forgotten.
in the first book devoted to discussing the history of jehovahs witnesses, this house and its history is not even mentioned.
Actually, some of us were hoping to be able to afford it when Dr Chan died but we simply couldn't afford it .....
Maybe we need to start a fund to make sure we have it next time ...
Just a thought........
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
at 4440 braeburn road, san diego, ca., in the rich and prestigious neighborhood of the kensington heights neighborhood sits one of the biggest embarrassments in the long and continuing list of embarrassments the watchtower society has created for itself.. most dubs know nothing about it, and if it wasnt for a few brief comments about it in the proclaimers book in 1993, even fewer dubs would know anything at all about it.. it is the home once known as beth-sarim (pronounced beth-sareeeem), the house of the princes.. it is a house with a history the society has shown by its historical lack of candor, hopes everyone would forget.
in fact, the society has done just about everything it could do to ensure that its history will be forgotten.
in the first book devoted to discussing the history of jehovahs witnesses, this house and its history is not even mentioned.
Nathan Natas
What about the rumor that old Joe's bones may be somewhere out in San Diego to this day, buried secretly at Beth-Sarim per his orders?
Nathan, someone who investigated this learnt that when Da Judge's body arrived at Staten Island Cemetary, 6 officials of the WTS met them at the gate and carried the coffin into the cemetary and did not permit anyone else to come with them. They were out of sight so no one saw them bury the coffin.
A few nights later a truck pulled up at the back of Beth Sarim and a large object was removed and taken up the back toward the crypt.
No burial took place in the crypt.
About 1985 the gardener at Beth Sarim decided to clear an area that had been used for as long as he remembered for composting trimmings from the bushes etc ...... under the pile was found a hollow about 3 feet wide and 8 feel long..... I understand that rather than make a fuss about what it probably was, he filled it in and planted grass.
So, I reckon that we may find nothing in the grave in Staten Island and a well preserved body in the back yard of Beth Sarim. Hic!
Anyways ... that's what I learn when I was doing my own investigation in 1986, 88 and 90
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
okay, i know (or want to believe) that not all jehovah's witnesses are this calloused.
at least i hope not.
there are some good, caring people, but here are some stark contrasts i've observed today that remind me of how glad i am that i'm not part of such an overall unloving group of people.
James:
[q]When i read former jw comments many times i often wonder how many of you fully understand the role that a High control group has in shaping the mindset of it's members-
Many post speak of slapping brain dead jw up side the head, etc,
when in fact many of us had the same mindset- for those who didn't like my wife- great , but for myself i too once shared the same mindset[/q]
You are so right James ...... we did have that mind set for the most part.
The celebrators are just as much a part of a cultic mind set as are the JW's ..... so too are the people who did this deed. The leaders who instigated it are another matter!
I recall Cyclone Tracy which devastated Darwin here on Christmas 1974. I and my family responded immediately by helping to collect money to help the victims .... the whole city was destroyed and evacuated.
The majority of brothers did what the Elders said .... left it up the the society to take approriate action .... how much was that? Nothing really!
We had two families come to our congregation and all they got out of us was a few items of clothing, and other no longer wanted bits and pieces, and being found a house to rent.
I was hauled on the carpet because I had the audacity to raise $500.00 plus to help out the victims.
That helped me leave too seeing all that "love"
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
i hope all of you are doing okay in light of this terrible tragedy we have witnessed.
it makes me want to join the army or something, it's hard to sit back and do nothing.
upon watching the watchtower's new pr video of the terrorist act in new york city, it is as far away from the reality of what happened as an isolated community can be.
I just got this from Prisca ...............
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This was sent to me from a friend in Texas................
Friends and Family...
I wanted to send SOMETHING out just to let you know how things are... You can get better updates of the whole situation through CNN or CBS (most complete network coverage, in my opinion), but here's the Brooklyn and Bethel and Ean slant on the whole thing.
First... Bethel. An announcement from the Branch Committee was read
yesterday at noon that was information regarding various measures taken by Bethel. Increased security (due to the thousands of people coming into Brooklyn from the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges), the potential power outages, and ongoing telephone disruptions. This announcement also stated that all members of the Bethel Family should remain on Bethel premises for Tuesday evening. Local shuttle service in Brooklyn and inter-complex shuttle service was suspended yesterday. (Many Brooklyn Bethelites had left for Patterson and Wallkill early in the morning, but were required to stay overnight. They've since come back this morning.)
Another announcement was read this morning expressing that efforts
regarding our brothers and sisters were being organized by the circuit overseers in NYC and as further information becomes available it will be passed on.
Morning Worship comments by Brother Losch this morning emphasized the text on taking the mind of Christ, and how that includes the pity we feel for all those that lost their lives, and not taking nationalistic feelings in the current situation.
Two more announcements were read at lunch today. The first stated,
generally, that as soon as the disaster started, the Governing Body
informed every branch office of the ongoing attack in NYC. The actions were indicative of the hatred in the world and Satan's grip. Many brothers and sisters that work in that area had not gone to work by the time of the attack. Others narrowly escaped before the collapse of the buildings.
Many of these were assisted by Bethel, fed, taken care of, and many spent the night here.
The second announcement was for the Brooklyn Bethel family that again
discouraged automobile transportation to congregation meetings.
My paraphasing of the above announcements is just that, paraphrasing.
360 Furman was closed yesterday afternoon. The smoke and debris dust went directly over 360 Furman and apparently clogged up the ventilation systems.Everyone was back to work this morning, however.
Everybody's asking whether any brothers or sisters were killed or injured.
Personally, I know of none. Everyone I know, that I'm aware works downtown is safe. There have been no official numbers or names released by the authorities in NYC.
It was a very traumatic experience for many. My workmates father worked on the 86th floor of the North Tower when the first plane crashed. He was on the street by the time the second plane crashed into the South Tower. Another brother that stayed at Bethel overnight was on the 81st floor of the North Tower. The 80th Floor was the topmost floor damaged by the crash. He also safely made it out without injury. There were other brothers at Bethel that were working in upper floor in the WTC that safely evacuated. This is
encouraging, because it appears that many were able to flee the building before the collapse.
A friend of mine came works five blocks from the WTC and came to Bethel as soon as he could via the Brooklyn Bridge. He was pretty shaken. Power went out to his building, they eventually headed to the street via the stairwell. There was panic on the streets. They evacuated all the buildings downtown at once, so the streets were just packed with people. As the buildings collapsed, there were multiple explosions that sent everybody off in different directions. Everytime they heard a plane overhead (by this time there were military patrols) they thought it was going to be another attack.
He compared it to schools of fish that constantly change directions. Most of the people on the street thought the white dust from the falling debris was a biochemical agent. Many were trying to get shelter in other buildings instead of heading uptown. Dozens were being crushed by the mass of people.
Many ran east to the water, but running out of places to run just jumped into the East River. He saw people being crushed by falling debris but more disturbing was the partial body parts (hands, feet) that were all over the streets.
My perspective... I was on a conference call when someone yelled that the WTC was smoking. I crossed the hallway to watch what was going on. Most people felt the explosion, but I didn't notice the first one. Because I work in the Electronics Shop, we had access to CNN and the networks... We alternated between the view out the window and the news. I definitely felt the second explosion, which shook the whole building. From the window I was looking out of you could see the people jumping from the top floors of the towers.
It kept getting worse and worse... when the second tower collapsed, the dust that was coming toward Brooklyn was so thick you couldn't see the river from the 30 Columbia Heights. Once it cleared a little bit, you could see thousands of people walking along the FDR drive and Fulton Street to the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges. There was a constant stream of people coming across the bridges for another four or five hours.
I spent most of the late morning and the afternoon calling and making sure everyone in my congregation and other friends were ok. Cell phones were totally out of commission in the morning, but it started getting better by about 11:30am. Most networked television transmitted over the air went out with the collapse of the North Tower too. Thankfully, we have satellite television at Bethel, so our feeds were uninterrupted. Most of the problems were in getting out of the city. For you not in the city, anybody in Manhattan had to basically walk out, which took hours. Once they walked across a bridge, there was usually public transportation available.
By the end of the day I was surprised to find myself totally exhausted, drained. I wasn't even in the thick of it, but couldn't believe the emotional and mental impact. I went home, a few friends came over, we had some martinis (and KFC! thanks Remy and Nat!), watched the news together, continued to call friends making sure everyone was ok, and crashed early.
This morning was eerie. As I left home and opened the door to the street, there was the charred remains of a manila envelope that had drifted over from WTC. There was blood-stained office paper scattered on the sidewalk of Hicks St. There was silence. No sirens. No vehicles. There were occasional clumps of people talking in hushed tones. Most people were quiet. Just walking.
Manhattan is still shut down. Most businesses are closed. All businesses below 14th Street are still evacuated. Most businesses all over Manhattan are closed. Airports are still closed. Etc. Etc. Everyone is scared to even estimate the death toll. It may be weeks before even estimates are released.
Work at Bethel goes on... The Kingdom Hope is kept forward in our minds. Its clear that this is a major worldwide situation and it's not even close to being completed. It only takes a few minutes for the world scene to change irrevocably.
And thank you for your messages and emails of concern... I've attached a couple pictures that were taken by myself or others here. Other photos on the ground are at cnn.com or msnbc.com .
Names removed
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
here in oz the graphic pictures via cnn have brought us up to the minute with the horrific scenes you guys in the us are experiencing.
some of us know folk there and we feel the pain too.. we stand with you in this time.. god bless.. .
cheers,.
I have been up most of the night absolutely stunned and feeling so deeply grieved by it all.
This has got to me more than the Oklahoma bombings even ..... I have a lump of pain in my chest that won't go away.
I hope they blow the bastards who did this so far past the paradise they expect to go when they die that they will spend eterninty in hell trying to find it.
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
the memorial for my cousin, sharon, who died of breast cancer on september 6, was yesterday.
it was standing room only, and it was obvious how many people really loved her.
i couldn't help but think of all the absent ones, who had been her lifelong friends, and how sad it was that they stayed away.
Thankyou for posting that Mulan.....
I have had a few tears reading it and still find it hard to believe she has gone. the times we chatted will always remain in my heart and mind. Sharon was truly a lovely person inside.
I went to a funeral a coule of years back of a young ex-Jw girl who had just come to know the true Lord. She died peacefully in her sleep. Her mother and relatives had to get permission to attend her funeral at the Baptist church ..... and her ex-JW father and brother were really so moving.
Like in sharon's funeral, it was a celebration of her life and a witness of God's love for us ...... and the JW's squirmed in that front row like they had a bad dose of worms!!
It is so different isn't it ..... one celebrates death and the other celebrates life ....
All of you give each other a hug for me will you and give one to the rest of the family ...... I really came ot love and appreciate Sharon the short time I was able to get to know her
Hugs
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
hey all,.
i've been out all day, so i apologize in advance if anyone already posted this info.. one of my jw relatives (whom i happened to see while visiting my dad this afternoon) told my mother that she'd have to "turn in her ticket to the elders to get a replacement.
" from what she said, they've changed the color of the ticket.
theyll check the blood card. this seems like a far better security system. who else would risk carrying one?lol, good point mox.
I would even make one of those especially for the meeting if I had to so that wouldn't stop anyone .......
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
i have never felt the intervention of the holy spirit in my life.
maybe that is one of the reasons i never felt like a good christian.. i think someone can take any situation and say it was the holy spirit acting in their life if they want to believe bad enough.
i saw my mother do this many times.. anyone here had any experiences that they felt was the holy spirit acting in their lives?
Seeker:
[Q] An instantly healed broken ankle would indeed be impressive if:
a) The ankle really was actually broken, that is the bones were separated and this was certified by a medical person, not just hurt like heck and you were "certain" it must be broken.
b) The ankle really was instantly healed, that is the bones were formed correctly again, the tisses and muscles were restored to normal state, and the pain was not only instantly gone, but permanently gone.
[/Q]
I can tell you that was the case ...... I no longer have access to the xray, but they showed a complete healing of an ankle that had bee broken the day before. The only evidence was a slight thickening of the bone as normally occurs. All pain was gone instantly and I could walk, jump and run. In addition, I worked 12 hour days on my feet for 12 days at our Exhibition (State Fair) starting three days later.
Now, my mother didn't believe either until she saw it all for her self.
Now you know why it got my attention!
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
i have never felt the intervention of the holy spirit in my life.
maybe that is one of the reasons i never felt like a good christian.. i think someone can take any situation and say it was the holy spirit acting in their life if they want to believe bad enough.
i saw my mother do this many times.. anyone here had any experiences that they felt was the holy spirit acting in their lives?
Yes, I have and it was a little awe inspiring.
Sometimes God intervenes for a reason, and it cannot be questioned.
Mine resulted in a broken ankle being completely healed instantly after I swore at God for not caring about me or my family. Now why he did it for me then and not others i don't know. Why he hasn't done it since I don't know ..... but he did get my attention
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
it is time for all us x-whatevers to get together again!
come and enjoy company where you don't have to wonder if people think you are weird because they don't understand your background.
plus _ we are celebrating!
It is time for all us x-whatevers to get together again! Come and enjoy company where you don't have to wonder if people think you are weird because they don't understand your background.
PLUS _ We are Celebrating!
First: We want to wet our new back deck!
Second: We want to celebrate 39 years of marriage! Yep, he has managed to put up with me that long
Will you come and help us? If you are a champion at making Salads ..... bring one along to share with us all. BYO Alcoholic Beverages.
We will be providing the meat ..... steaks, sausages, and spit roasts
Plus we will have breads, soft drinks, tea and coffee etc.
PLEASE: FOR CATERING PURPOSES, DO LET US KNOW IF YOU ARE COMING OR NOT. WE REALLY DON'T WANT TO EAT LEFT OVER MEAT and DRY BREAD FOR THE NEXT MONTH
If you have never met us before .... don't let that stop you. We don't know any strangers just people we havne't met face to face yet ....... and we love to laugh! [:0]
When: Sept 29th 2001
Where: 33 Novello St, Mansfield, Qld, Brisbane, Australia
Time: 12.30 pm onwards until we give up
Phone Jan on 07 - 3216 8514
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/
