Posts by miseryloveselders

112

The Only Real "Take" You Can Have on the Date of Jerusalems Destruction

by AllTimeJeff in

i have a new take on the 587/586 "controversy".

this is of course, speaking for me over 3 years after i left.

i realize that if you are first leaving, this is a big deal.

miseryloveselders

Hey Jeff, I appreciate your posts, especially speaking as someone from the perspective of being still totally in, and not a chance of fading or stopping whatsoever. You, On The Way Out, Undercover and a couple others helped me put some things in perspective.

As far as this topic is concerned, wanted to say , IMPO , too much time is invested in 586/587 vs 606/607. Even 1914, I believe too much is focused on. The only publication of a former JW that I purchased was The Gentile Times Considered, and it's not a bad book at all. He makes solid points, as does others such as Leolia, Larsinger, and even Scholar. However, lets just say 1914 was correct. Lets just assume that. At the end of the day, so what? The JW religion as it is now, is completely different from what the "Bible Students" were "then." To make the argument that Christ a few years after WW1, made an inspection invisibly, and selected not the Bible Students, but what "a segment" of the Bible Students, that would become a chosen religion doesnt add up to me. Put it this way, ...... add a little Isaiah here, a little Daniel there, a dash of Mathew/Luke, a parable here, a Revelation there, and some finger pointing at other faiths for spice, and then call the end product, the "True Religion" is a stretch. Especially considering the Bible Students were participators in what they call Babylon the Great for some 30-50 years after the invisible inspection.

Winston Churchill another poster who I've enjoyed reading from in the past, made the point, why can't people just say, "I don't know?" I don't waste my time on dates and trying to figure out when some end time is coming based on prophecies that were written centuries ago. Jesus stated to, "keep on the watch", but he didnt say hold your breath while keeping on the watch. The reason why, you'd suffocate, or you would allow other imperfect men to strangle you with their noose rope made up of "current" interpretations, and organizational "policies". The Bible has "principles", not "policies." There was a "Law", but that's been done away with, and replaced with a Ransom. The principles found in that law stand the test of time.

At the end of the day Jeff, I say, as far as 586/587 vs 606/607.................so what. Do what Christ commanded you to do is what I say. The key part of that, is what Christ told you to do and the example he set. Not some group of men who decided to speak on behalf of an Entity they dont seem to really have a firm grasp of a relationship with. They have more of a relationship with their organization and It's interests, than they do with God and his Son.

20

Why Would Someone Like me Leave the "Truth"? Part 2

by cantleave in

jw
friends

as stated in part 1 the latter part of the 1980s and 1990s were very good for my wife and i. we are doing well spiritually and both had good jobs.

our increasing income allowed us to move at a relatively young age to a nice area.

we wanted to stay in our old congregation but i was told as an appointed man i should support the congregation in my new territory.. this new congregation had a completely different feel about it to our old one.

miseryloveselders

I didnt realize you had the 2nd story up already. Good read.

Doubting Bro- exactly how I felt/feel. Had I still been a servant, or a random publisher, I probably wouldnt be on this board. The first Elder meeting I had, I remember thinking, "so this is it?" 1/2 hour Elder meetings after regular meetings discussing light bulbs and lightly arguing over what a letter from HQ means and how we should interpret it. Politics, dealing with cliques, snakes,etc.. Most of the time, the Bible is NEVER pulled out. It may end up on the table in front of a couple brothers, but rarely opened. Just all a waste of time.

25

Why Would Someone Like me Leave the "Truth"? Part 1

by cantleave in

jw
friends

the title of this series of threads is rhetorical.

i am going to answer it with my own experience.

before i do that, i want to discuss what we are told through the literature and the instruction that is given during meetings, assemblies and conventions, for the reasons why people leave the truth.. the watchtower of 15 november 2008, in the article help them return without delay indicates people leave because of the following:.

miseryloveselders

Enjoyed reading that. I can relate to so much of it. Can't wait for part 2. It's thrillling to read about others having similar experiences. Up until the past few months, I thought I was on an island by myself. Good read Cantleave.

9

Satan blessed me I think......well not quite, but I want your input....

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

i've wanted to do a bio thread for a little while now to give you my story, but for security reasons i can't at this time.

(crazy, maintaining a double life requires secrecy the cia would envy) i did however want to share this with you, and i need your thoughts and experiences if possible.. i just got a fairly decent job promotion, significant enough pay raise, and better hours.

i'm grateful too, happy even.

miseryloveselders

I've wanted to do a bio thread for a little while now to give you my story, but for security reasons I can't at this time. (crazy, maintaining a double life requires secrecy the CIA would envy) I did however want to share this with you, and I need your thoughts and experiences if possible.

I just got a fairly decent job promotion, significant enough pay raise, and better hours. I'm grateful too, happy even. Most people would be right? Especially in these times. However I'm actually conflicted because of this. I interviewed for this position right around the time I started posting on here. I got the offer a little over a week ago. The word got out in my department and other departments, people who know me, and the past few days I've recieved compliments, and congratulations. People shaking my hand, even got a fist bump from an old dude. One coworker, openly gay, shook my hand and warmly congratulated me. We always did get along, and always will. I'm not remotely gay by the way. A couple female aquiantenances gave me a hug. Mind you, none of these people are JWs. Some of them, maybe most of them know I am. Yet here they are sincerely congratulating me. It made me feel really good. Now here's the conflict.........

The deeply ingrained JW side of me is screaming thoughts such as, "the world is fond of their own" "do not be loving the world or the things in the world",etc.. Not to mention this happened right around the time I started logging on here. I'm able to sit back and laugh at what I'm thinking as nonsense, and that these are the thoughts of a crazy person. Yet, these are my thoughts. I've always looked at life believing there is no such thing as luck. We stand on our own success, mistakes, failures, and sometimes chance. I've never personally prayed for anything like a particular job or anything financial. Yet if something worked out for me, I would thank Jehovah. If it didnt, I didnt ever, not once blame it on Satan or Jehovah. I just chalked it up as, "so it goes, oh well." Even the worst times of my life, I've never blamed it on someone. But now, for the first time in my life, I'm experiencing this internal debate that for the most part I know is retarded to ponder over. But my upbringing is tugging at my conscience too. I hope this doesnt come off as a ramble, or incoherent.

Have you ever experienced what I'm relaying to you? Anything similar?

21

JW therapist????

by maninthemiddle in

i read on a facebook thread some talking about going to a jw therapist, i didnt't know there were any.

i remember a young girl that da and my mother blamed it on a "worldly" therapist.

knowing what i know of her family it had to be the best decision of her life.. .

miseryloveselders

This thread is ironic because I had a checkup a couple weeks ago. I explained to the physician that I'm experiencing some stress, and anxiety. She gave me something for it, which has helped. She asked a question though that I couldnt answer honestly at the time. She goes, "do you feel the need to talk to someone about it?" Which she meant a Psychiatrist, or Therapist, however you wish to put it. I said no, I can handle it. I didnt tell her then and there, but the reality which I know the Therapist will verify, is whats behind my anxiety is this religion. I'm stressed out. Life's stresses are common to everyone, but you would think your faith would provide some comfort. This religion adds to the stress, anxiety, etc..

maninthemiddle, I wish the best for your sister and other family.

40

Which gender is superior?

by John Doe in

jw
friends

i think it's obvious that the answer must weigh in favor of the more humble gender.

and what's more humble that posing a question with an obvious answer for the sake of letting the weaker gender feel better about themselves?

therefore, "male" is the obvious answer.

miseryloveselders

The Apostle Paul in Hebrew basically told women to sit down and shut up, and for men to enforce that. Today we have the example set in congregations where women are incapable of handeling the sound equipment or handing out literature. So I think the answer is fairly obvious.

18

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-27-09 WT Study (LOVELESS WORLD)

by blondie in

jw
friends

--read 1 john 3:16.. comments.

q 18, 19. how should we view any counsel that we receive from a christian friend, and what example did the ephesus.

why not the david example here...david's servants and family had to know.. q 21. what will all of us do at times, but why is it vital that we maintain strong friendships in the congregation?.

miseryloveselders

Describing her reaction 'when a close friend

stopped serving Jehovah, one sister said: "l felt as if something inside of me died. I thought my friend was firmly

grounded in the truth, but she was not. I wondered if she had been serving Jehovah just to please her family. "

The sister quoted

earlier sums up the matter: "l learned that we cannot make someone love Jehovah or love us. Ultimately, it is a personal

choice."

I wonder how many Born-Ins who want out in a dignified manner gasped or felt their heart sink upon reading this for the first time, only to be reemphasized after hearing it again by the WT Reader, and then reiterated a couple more times by those commenting. Translation : There is NO getting out of this without some major heartache, mostly family and close friends. It reminds me of prison gangs who operate on a blood in-blood out rule. In other words short of being murdered or getting into protective custody, there is no getting out of a prison gang without serious ramifications. People often join or become associates of prison gangs out of fear. It's similar with JWs, particulary those born into this. Fear of displeasing family, fear of displeasing Jehovah by not obeying his "only" visible channel on earth. I think this personal experience they used is not real. Someone purposely wrote this with motives behind it. They know there's a major percentage of born-ins who are struggling trying to maintain the facade of believing in this organization. How the people writing this stuff sleep at night......

31

Pioneering !

by iknowall558 in

question :.

why is 'pioneering' a 'privilege' when every jw goes out in ministry anyway.

even those who have lost privileges, or been disciplined, or been reinstated after being disfellowshipped are still expected to go out in the ministry.

miseryloveselders

It's just a title. Same as a Ministerial Servant. I look at the Regular Pioneers in the Hall I attend, we've got nine Regular Pioneers, and there's on average 3 Bible Studies between the nine of them. On the flipside of things, I see people's cards who are averaging 30 hours a month, yet averaging more Studies than the Pioneers. I'm not talking about those counting their Family Studies either. I've been out with these people. Their time is legit. During the Winter, I'd rather be doing RV's with the just above national hour average crowd, than the Pioneers.

The other thing that bothers me about it and maybe someone else can answer this question for me, but is the word Pioneer, or anything like it in the Bible, anywhere? If not, why promote something not biblicle for people to aspire for, yet provides little more than the hamster on the wheel effect, as opposed to actual converts?

24

Working for a JW, what a horrible experience...

by HappyGuy in

jw
friends

one of the things that made me start doubting the wtbts and jws was the way jws treat their jw employees.. i worked for jws several times.

the experience was always the same.. 1. pay was less than the going market rate for the same work at "worldly" companies.. 2. there were no benefits of any kind, no paid holidays, no sick time, no overtime, no insurance.. 3. whenever possible the jw forced the jw employees to pay their own company related expenses like gas, pager, company uniform, etc.. 4. any attempt to discuss the poor working conditions was always responded to with "but you get to make all the meetings and you get to go to the assemblies and you get to work for brothers.

" and, if you said "i would go to meetings regardless of who i worked for" and pushed back on that answer then they started in on your "loyalty" and you were unspritual if you questioned a "brother" and were not "loyal" to your employer.. 5. any attempt to find another job was met with harassment, being told you could not give the jw employer as a reference, being threatened with lawsuits, etc.. 6. the jw employers themselves were lazy and would not do the things they expected of their jw employees.. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------.

miseryloveselders

Me personally, I would NEVER work for a JW. If I can help it, I would NEVER work with a JW or in a department of a company with one. If offered a job, and the company has a JW I personally know, I'd probably would not take the job unless my financial situation necessitated such. It has the potential to create awkward situations. Plus I like my space. People today have been saying, "Merry Christmas." I said the same thing back to them, and when my conscious got the best of me I said, "Happy Holidays." With another JW on the premises, it would have been an issue. I can picture it now, some Bipolar, 3 hour a month, overweight sister going through menopause giving me the look because I said, "enjoy your holiday!"

I think I saw a statement on this forum sometime ago, maybe another forum, where someone said, "having friends in the Truth, is like having friends at work." It's true. You see these people a few times throughout the week competing with one another over proving their spirituality. To have to share a 40-60 hour work week with them too, that would be too much. I'd rather die. To work FOR one of them, where they have a measure of authority over you........nope, I'll pass. On another similar vein, I would never want to live in the same neighborhood as a JW too. It's essentially the same awkward situations.

27

How do active JW's spend their Christmas? What do they feel?

by dgp in

jw
friends

hello to all.

maybe this is a stupid question, since jw's don't celebrate christmas, but, as jw's, how did you spend your christmas?

what did you feel when everyone else was celebrating?

miseryloveselders

Undercover, I used to always , and sometimes still go to movies by myself on Christmas and Thanksgiving. I liked the limited amount of people there. The fact that it was always either raining or sleeting seemed to coincide with my mood on those days. Feeling kind of lonely, yet determined not to feel sorry for myself either. At the same time though, growing up in the age of Nintendo/Playstation, to be by one's self is tolerable if you have Madden, Doom, etc.. During those preteen and teenager years, I could play Madden all day long, and care less what's happening outside my door.

This Christmas day I'm looking forward to. Sleep in late. Doubleheader NBA. Celtics vs. Orlando, and Lakers vs. Cavs. Lebron vs Kobe, Garnet vs. Howard, Pierce vs. Carter. Chinese resteraunts are always open on Christmas, so dinner is covered.