Posts by JanH

10

Immortality a reality?

by chappy in

jw
friends

hi folks,.

been quite a while since i've visited the forum.

i kinda drifted away after the mass exodus from h20.

There have been a few studies of life expectancy in the past. For previous times, analysis of teeth and bone struktures play an important part. For more modern times, we have figures based on both forensic evidence and written records.

Those who find low figures for earlier times unlikely fail to take into account the enormous infant and child mortality of all pre-industrial societies. Add to that the death tolls of the much higher violence of the day and especially how vulnerable people were to epidemics and diseases that we may consider trivial today. It is quite possible that more than half of the human beings that have ever lived died from one single disease: malaria. Add to this the fact that the typical death-cause of any woman who reached childbearing age was death due to complications during pregnancy or birth.

Pointing to famous persons in ancient days as examples is quite pointless. These were almost always people from the higher classes, having better healthcare and food available than the average person. Naturally, there is a bias built in: exceptional individuals cannot be compared to the average. If they had died in young age, they would not have accomplished whatever made them famous.

Research has demonstrated that the average life expectancy of people in the Stone Age was around 21 years. Thousands of years later, during the Roman Empire, it was not significantly more. Considering the greater availability of food and a safer society, this may be surprising. Nevertheless, it is true.

Not much seems to have happened during the Middle Ages, and records are sparse. One study of Benedictine Monks in Canterbury, England, from 1395-1505, shows their life expectancy to have been 22 years at birth. These were hardly representative, true, but if such figures are biased I doubt they are too low.

From around 1600 the life expectancy started to slowly increase in Europe, due to better sanitary conditions and of course food availability. It seems to have approached around 30. As late as in 1800 it was around 37 in the richest country in the world, England and it was 30 in France.

From around 1860 we can see a marked increase in all countries of the western world from one decade to the next. Today this average life expectancy at birth is around 80 in industrialized countries.

In the 20th century we could see an even more dramatic increase in what is called the 3rd world. In 1930 it was around 24 in China. In 1990 it was 69.4. For India, it was 24-25 in 1910-11, increasing to 57.9 in 1990. Chile, one of the better developing countries, had a life expectancy of 30.6 years in 1909. In 1990 it was 71.5.

This is the typical development all over the world, with no expections over time.

I doubt you find any region in the world today with a lower life expectancy than 25. If that is the case, it is true that people all over the world today, even in the most primitive regions, have a higher life expectancy than almost every human through premodern time could hope for.

Sources:

Ascardi, George and J. Nemeskeri. 1970. History of Human Life Span and Mortality. Budapest: Akademiai Kiado.

Barclay, George et al. 1976. A Reassessment of the Demography of Traditional Rural China. Population Index, 42(4), 606-35.

Bhat, Mari. 1987, Mortality in India: Levels, Trends and Patterns. Dissertation in Demography; University of Pennsylvaina, Ann Arbor, Michigan.

United Nations. 1990. World Population Prospects: 1990. Population Study No. 120.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

42

Studying

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i flat out asked the jw i'm studying with what she would do if someone was disfellowshipped and she was honest and said she wouldn't talk to them since they wouldn't be good examples of jehovah witness.

then we started talking about appearances and tattoos, and about my pink hair :) and she said it didn't matter.

i am enjoying reading and visiting this web site but i am just not seeing the same things you guys have.

JanH

tattoogrl,

If you were a part of a vegetarian club and you decided to eat meat, would you expect others to talk to you.

YES! What planet are you living on, where you refuse to even talk to people who have different opinions than yourself?

Ah, ok. JWland. Of course.

I assume that there exists vegetarians/vegans who will refuse to speak to a former vegan who later decided to extend their diet. There are words for such people, as they exist in most beliefs systems: fanatics and bigots.

Well, there is a world outside where people generally try to tolerate deviating opinions and respect people even if they don't think like them in everything.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

34

No Atheists in a Foxhole

by hippikon in

jw
friends

ever heard the saying that there arent any atheists in a foxhole - i think that is nonsense atheists are born in foxholes

JanH

If atheism is a form of belief, then health is a form of disease.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

30

Evolution a proven fact? LOL

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

some interesting quotes from evolutionists.

natural history, vol.

' new scientist, vol.

JanH

DubDub/Rex,

Your list says nothing about evolution, but a lot about the gross dishonesty and fraud you and your fellow creationists typically use to "prove" your fantasies. By carefully taking words out of context, and by using false authorities (like the exentric astronomer Hoyle, who knew about as much about Darwinian evolution as the average plumber) and trusting their readers to be totally ignorant about the difference between knowing how evolution happened and knowing that it happened, creationists demonstrate that to them, it's perfectly legitimate to lie for their God.

Two more examples should suffice.

Dr Patterson's statement has been passed around in cretinist pamphlets for quite some time. What he said in a private letter concerned systematics only, and it is disingenious to apply it to evolution as a whole. I suspect your source (at least indirectly) is the Australian Creation Science Foundation's "Revised Quote Book". "Revised", of course, because a number of earlier quotations were proven direct inventions and fraud.

See the article "Patterson Misquoted" at http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/patterson.html for full context, and also Dr Patterson's own response,

An even older chestnut, used by particularly dishonest creationists for decades (perhaps longer) demonstrates beyond doubt how unscrupulous you charlatans are in taking statements out of context to make them mean even the exact opposite of what the author intended. This is the quote as you use it, incidentally exactly like it is used by the Watchtower Society in the Creation book:

"To suppose that the eye...could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree. Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, 1859, p. 133 (sic)

If we look up Darwin's words in context, we see exactly what point Darwin was trying to make:

"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree. When it was first said that the sun stood still and the world turned round, the common sense of mankind declared the doctrine false; but the old saying of Vox populi, vox Dei, as every philosopher knows, cannot be trusted in science. Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist, each grade being useful to its possessor, as is certainly the case; if further, the eye ever varies and the variations be inherited, as is likewise certainly the case; and if such variations should be useful to any animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered as subversive of the theory." (The Origin of Species, Charles Darwin, 1859, p 133)

As we can see from the full quotation, Darwin considered the idea that the eye could evolve to be exactly like the idea that the earth revolved around the sun. What Darwin meant, was that intuitively both ideas seemed absurd, but by reason and facts we can see that is indeed the truth. Nobody reading your fruadulent misquotation will get that idea.

You are a liar and a fraud, DubDub, but we have known that for a long time.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

30

Evolution a proven fact? LOL

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

some interesting quotes from evolutionists.

natural history, vol.

' new scientist, vol.

JanH

DubDub/Rex,

Have you ever looked up and read those quotations in context? I bet you haven't.

Incidentally, some of the same examples of fraud and misquotations can be found in the WTS Creation book. Jumped from the frying pan into the fire, eh, little fundie?

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

21

Venice

by slipnslidemaster in

jw
friends

hey venice,.

haven't seen you posting for a while, where are you????

i miss you.. slipnslidemaster: "the only difference between me and a madman is that i'm not mad.

JanH

This thread is the Holy Gateway between the Chatroom and the Main board.

Behold the return of the Big Cheese!

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

23

The Last Days in the 14th Century

by JanH in

jw
friends

the last days in the 14th century .

all through recorded history there have been people who have pointed to the calamities, horrors and disasters in the world, and preached that this signified an imminent end of the world.

this isnt even unique to christianity, which started off with strong millennial expectations in the 1st century, and for the most part retains the same expectations almost 2000 years later.

JanH

Hmm, Marvin, I can understand why some people thought you were friend. You sound like him. I remember Friend posting one of his verbose articles to H2O arguing precisely the case. It rested upon a pretty anachronistic understanding of oikomene and an ad-hoc argument about global communication being the real sign of the last days.

It of course begs the question why Jesus should mention Earthquakes & al if what he really tried to communicate was that we would have global communication in the last days.

This would be a feasible interpretation if and only if you could answer yes to the following question: would a reasonable person listening to Jesus saying those words directly, those Jesus was addressing in the first place, be likely to draw the conclusion that Jesus was talking about global communication?

The answer is obvious.

What Friend does is cryptoexegesis in the spirit of Miller, Barbour, Russell and the WTS. It is totally useless.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

21

Venice

by slipnslidemaster in

jw
friends

hey venice,.

haven't seen you posting for a while, where are you????

i miss you.. slipnslidemaster: "the only difference between me and a madman is that i'm not mad.

JanH

And who took the paddle? Was it you again, Riz?

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

37

Something cause this??? but what??

by Okidok in

jw
friends

i like to wonder, and be able to think independent of any subject or topic thats provoke me.

even if these subjects are "weird" or not.. it look like sometimes ,there is topics that seems to already been explained seriously as hoaxes.

so dont even bother to try to explain it otherwise,or if u want to maintain serious.. well here is a challenge for you.. try to explain these images.. since 1980 these crop circles has appeared ,and increased every year.. what do u think of this circle that appeared today.

JanH

Åge,

I wonder, why do always crop circles have to be connected to aliens and UFO's, as the second explanation after hoaxes?

Probably because it's the least likely explanation people can come up with. Conspirationists have only one requirement for believing something: that's it's ridiculously unlikely to be true. To them, that is almost definite evidence that it is a fact.

Me, too, am partial to the theory that visiting alients are bored teenagers.

Think about all the alleged UFO crashes. Typical reckless teenage behaviour, and teenagers also can't afford proper quality vehicles (Don't buy your UFO at Slimey Sam's Used UFO sales, folks!). Not to mention that those UFOs are supposed to remain hidden, but are seen by thousands of people. Probably playing too loud music. Whenever they try to erase people's memory, they fail. They seem to have had sex with countless women, a typical evidence they are horny teenagers. And since certain teenagers are a pest for the environment, it also explain why they are here: their home planets simply wanted to get rid of them. Thus, they have nothing better to do than doing pranks on our crops, and perhaps mutilate some of our domestic animals (we'd better not speculate how or why; some clues may be provided above ).

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

17

Toilets are Unbiblical

by JanH in

it's about time to put an end to the unbiblical and perverted practice of making water closets and other forms of toilets.

this ungodly practice is clearly prohibited in god's word the bible:.

deuteronomy 23: 12-14 "designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself.

JanH

It's about time to put an end to the UnBiblical and perverted practice of making water closets and other forms of toilets. This ungodly practice is clearly prohibited in God's Word the Bible:

Deuteronomy 23: 12-14 "Designate a place outside the camp where you can go to relieve yourself. As part of your equipment have something to dig with, and when you relieve yourself, dig a hole and cover up your excrement. For the LORD your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you."

No doubt all the ills of our society, like liberals, gays, evolution and atheism are part of God's curse over us for the detestable practice of having toilets! God will surely punish us if we do not outlaw and stop this hideous practice.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]