Posts by garyneal

15

Brother Sidekick and his wife came to our house today. This ones for Moshe

by garyneal in

wow, two days after my conversation with brother hero that brother sidekick shows up with his wife at our apartment.

i am not sure what he wanted but he shows me a newspaper article that suggests that jesus was in jail for the last supper and calculates his death at 33 c.e.. i honestly dont know what he was trying to get at but he and his wife started talking about the memorial.

he said that just like what the newspaper article said, the jews no longer use the old calendar.

garyneal

Okay, I get it. Passover is Nissan 15, not Nissan 14. So.... I got to trip him up on that.

I am going to get back with you all on that.

15

Brother Sidekick and his wife came to our house today. This ones for Moshe

by garyneal in

wow, two days after my conversation with brother hero that brother sidekick shows up with his wife at our apartment.

i am not sure what he wanted but he shows me a newspaper article that suggests that jesus was in jail for the last supper and calculates his death at 33 c.e.. i honestly dont know what he was trying to get at but he and his wife started talking about the memorial.

he said that just like what the newspaper article said, the jews no longer use the old calendar.

garyneal

Wow, two days after my conversation with Brother Hero that Brother Sidekick shows up with his wife at our apartment. I am not sure what he wanted but he shows me a newspaper article that suggests that Jesus was in jail for the last supper and calculates his death at 33 C.E.. I honestly don’t know what he was trying to get at but he and his wife started talking about the Memorial. He said that just like what the newspaper article said, the Jews no longer use the old calendar. So, when he said that They calculate the date of the memorial for our calendar based on Nissan 14, I said, “Interesting, I had a jew mention that you all do the memorial one day early.” He agreed saying that the Jews use a different calendar now than they did back in Jesus’ time.

I then later asked him if he was aware of my recent conversation with Brother Hero. He said he was and that Hero was going to research some information for me. Apparently, they have not marked me yet as a do not call. I have to work harder.

12

If we lose a few hundred oh well

by RayPublisher in

wasn't there a quote in one of ray's books where a gb member said something to that effect?

they were going to change a policy ("new light" lol) and i think it was grant suiter who said, "if we lose a few hundred oh well we'll gain lots more from this!".

i have both books (hardcopy and pdf) and tried to find it but couldn't.

garyneal

Interesting...

I suppose if the WTS felt like they could get away with it unscathed (ie no ruinous legal battles), they would receive new light and totally drop their blood doctrine.

36

What do you think of AOG church?

by shallbefree in

jw
friends

hello friends, i am a fading jw and i am thinking of attending sunday service at a local aog church here, just for fellowship.

i have lots of friends but none of them are spiritual minded.

not that i am complaining but it would be nice to meet some spiritual minded people.

garyneal

I know very little about Assemblies of God but I do know a thing or two about Churches of God. Lots of tongue speaking and 'prophesying' where people just begin shouting out as if G-d was talking through them whenever they felt like. Very disruptive in my opinion and it makes them sound like loons. When my wife and I visited my cousin's church, the man delivering the sermon spoke out against AOG even though this church was also Pentecostal.

In some ways, I like the livelyness of the pentecostal churches but some go over the top for my tastes. To each his or her own.

26

Well, I guess I am marked now...

by garyneal in

my wife did a talk last night at the kingdom hall concerning how a god of love could kill people.

she asked me to come with her because she wanted the emotional support.

i agreed and we were all on the way.

garyneal

James Woods: I'm kind of thinking that I am, but I don't know how the JW mind really works since I never was one.

LeavingWT and Outlaw: Yeah, I do talk to them as I don't think they are all bad. So far they have not given me a reason to tell the to bugger off and leave me and my family alone.

LostGeneration: Yeah, it was rather delusional and I think even Hero knew that which I think is why he immediately backed it up with the whole 'you can take blood and still die' comment. He was not aware of the 1994 Awake article when I asked him about it. I've found that this guy was not aware of a LOT of things concerning da troof. Even though he's been a witness for 40 years.

ziddina: That was funny my daughter doing that. At first I tried to stop her, then I was like, "What the heck, push it in." It amazes me that he thinks that since abstain from blood was mentioned in the Bible that it is a show stopper to G-d. Nevermind the fact that other sins are mentioned in the Bible and yet he does not view them as such grave offenses.

blondie: Guess that WT conductor was showing their true colors. I remember asking my wife if she wanted to read and study the Bible and just as we were about to start, she pulled out a WT. When I objected she responded with, "But to read the Bible alone is leaning on your own understanding." Tell me again how that is different than the witness accusing other Christians of simply following what the pastor says?

jojeffer: Turn on compatability mode in IE 9 or use a different browser.

LongHairGirl: Revisionism, plain and simple.

wha happened: When you woke up, what did you think of studies like me then?

Londo: I've read the book, if Brother Hero does come at me again I may ask to learn more about their history.

Aussie Oz: I know, in his mind no matter what I say, the problem is with me. That does not bother me, I will even give him some credit for trying if he produces anything.

yourmomma: Yeah, I think even he knew the fallacy of that comment considering that he immediately backed it up with the whole 'some people take transfusions and still die' comment.

Phizzy: Even if I could accept the idea that 'abstain from blood' means abstain from it in any way shape or form, Brother Hero still needs to explain how 'abstain from blood' means fractions are okay, so are treatments made from blood, and don't give blood for it must be poured on the ground but take fractions from those who did not pour their blood on the ground. The real question should be, why would any Jehovah's Witness be willing to stake their lives on such a nonsensical doctrine? They have my sympathies.

WTWizard: Good points.

Carla: I brought a copy of CoC to the hall one Wednesday night but I don't think anyone saw it. I also told Brother Hero about that book.

truth_b_known: Exactly. In fact, that was what he said someone told him. "Keep studying and you will soon get it." I guess the fact that his mom was a witness had nothing to do with it....

desirous of change: I asked my wife that one time about Russell. She would point out that people don't like certain things taught by their church and then start their own church. Sounds a lot like Russell to me.

punk: Yeah, I guess I do have to be cruel to be kind sometimes. I doubt I truly heard the last of him but I doubt he will go out of his way to prove their unique doctrines either.

87

WTS successfully counters claims it is a "false prophet"

by trthskr in

greetings.. http://www.jehovah.to/xlation/fp.html.

"do not interpretations belong to god?".

but as the saying goes; you can never satisfy a critic.. .

garyneal

In the last 125 2000 years, Jehovah ’s Witnesses Christendom churches have published literally millions of words in publications such as The Watchtower. This includes powerful arguments against atheism and the theory of evolution, eloquent defences of the Bible as the inspired word of God, articles upholding the Bible’s stance on moral issues such as abortion, fornication, adultery and homosexual lifestyles. Watchtower Christendom's publications have long exhorted their readers to display Christian qualities and imitate Jesus. They have shown how applying the Bible’s counsel can benefit family life. Through their writings The Watchtower, millions billions of people have been comforted by the Bible’s message of hope.

Fixed that for you. You see, all the good things that can be said of the Watchtower, can be said of Christendom. All the bad things said of Christendom, can be said of the Watchtower.

26

Well, I guess I am marked now...

by garyneal in

my wife did a talk last night at the kingdom hall concerning how a god of love could kill people.

she asked me to come with her because she wanted the emotional support.

i agreed and we were all on the way.

garyneal

I'll respond to everyone tonight as I got to go get my girls and help my oldest one with her art project. Thanks for the replies so far.

26

Well, I guess I am marked now...

by garyneal in

my wife did a talk last night at the kingdom hall concerning how a god of love could kill people.

she asked me to come with her because she wanted the emotional support.

i agreed and we were all on the way.

garyneal

Also, let me add that before the conversation ended I explained to him why I found the blood doctrine most frightening. I told him that if I became a witness, I would have to refuse a blood transfusion for myself or my loved ones. He replied, "Well no one died from that. Some people die even with a transfusion." (I mean are you kidding me?!?!) I said, "I've read articles where people have died because of the refusal of blood. Also, are you aware of an article in a 1994 Awake called Youths who put God first? It speaks of kids fighting with doctors to refuse a blood transfusion and going as far as pulling the needle out their arm. What kind of a religion would teach children to do these things? I find that very frightening indeed. I cannot call it anything else other than martyrism."

"Well even if we lose our life we have that hope of an everlasting one but if we try to save our life now we may lose our everlasting one," he said. "Do you really believe that you can lose your everlasting life because of a blood transfusion?" I asked. "Yeah," he said. "I'm sorry, but as far as I know, the Bible speaks of only one unpardonable sin, and it is not a blood transfusion," I concluded.

That was when our conversation basically wound down.

26

Well, I guess I am marked now...

by garyneal in

my wife did a talk last night at the kingdom hall concerning how a god of love could kill people.

she asked me to come with her because she wanted the emotional support.

i agreed and we were all on the way.

garyneal

My wife did a talk last night at the Kingdom Hall concerning how a God of love could kill people. She asked me to come with her because she wanted the emotional support. I agreed and we were all on the way. Before the meeting began, Brother Hero comes to me and asks if we can start studying again. In my mind I was saying, never, but I wanted to give Brother Hero a reason to 'earn' my study but since he caught me off guard at that moment I asked him to get with me after the talk and I will let him know. My wife gives her talk while the kids and I were in the hallway. The littlest one would not sit still so we had to go out in the hall but we watched my wife through the window.

We left immediately following so we could get the kids to bed at a respectable time. I had a copy of this letter to the elders as well as a copy of this news article concerning blood transfusions that I wanted to give to Brother Hero. However, my oldest daughter got a hold of them and instead shoved them in the contribution box. Oops.

At any rate, Brother Hero asks again before I leaved and I promised to call him the next day. I called him this morning around lunch time to talk about the study and here is how the conversation went.

First off, I explained to him that I did not see the point in studying anymore if he was unable to explain to me how their current understand of their blood doctrine was supported by the Bible (not to mention common sense). He responded by saying that while I did not understand things now that in time I will. That’s not good enough, because everything that we have studied since my questioning him on this doctrine and my sharing with him my views on the matter have been about everything but blood. I hate being misled in this way and I figured it was time to come clean.

I asked him how they could he know that the witnesses have the one true religion and he immediately directed me to the scriptures in Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19, 20. I looked them up and figured that he would immediately point to the fact that they preach door to door as their marker of the one true religion. I replied, “There are a lot of people who call themselves Christian. One third of the world’s population if I am correct, so it seems that there has been a lot of preaching in the world.”

He told me that the witnesses have been preaching the Kingdom since the days of Christ but I countered with the fact that the Jehovah’s Witnesses did not exist as a religion until the days of Russell and even then they were known as the Bible Students not the Jehovah’s Witnesses. He even went as far as to say that the people of Israel were considered the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I asked, “So if I were to go to a Jewish temple and ask a Jewish rabbi if the Israelites considered themselves Jehovah’s Witnesses back in Bible times, he would say yes?” “You should go to the Bible, Gary it says in the Bible that they were Jehovah’s Witnesses.” “The Bible calls them Jews,” I responded.

At any rate, I knew this was not going anywhere so I took the conversation back to the original topic and said, “Look, what is important is that you can somehow show me how the scriptures support your current understanding of the blood doctrine. If you cannot do that, perhaps you can show me proof that the witnesses do indeed have the true religion and that the Watchtower is indeed God’s sole channel here on Earth. That is what you say right, that they are God’s sole channel?” “Yes,” he replied. “Then if you can prove that, I will listen,” I said.

He told me things like how the witnesses follow the Bible as closely as possible or that the Bible supports what the witnesses teach. I replied, “A lot of religions claim the Bible supports their teachings. When I was an IFB, they too claimed that they followed the Bible as closely as possible and believed that they had the correct teachings. We even went door to door trying to win souls for Christ.” “You did what the Bible commands us to do then,” he said. “So am I to become an IFB again?” I asked. I then explained that the fact of the matter was that even though the pastor claimed to have the true gospel message from the Bible, that pastor also taught false things like urban legends such as the beast of Revelations being a super computer in Belgium as the truth. Confronting false teachings like this made me conclude that they could not be the only true church.

“What do you think is the one true religion, Gary?” he asked. “None of them,” I replied. “So you don’t believe that the first century Christians had the one true religion then?” he asked. “I think that Jesus could be considered the truth but that none of His followers had everything right,” I replied, “In the book of Revelations, it speaks of 7 different churches all of them had something that was a little off as far as Christ was concerned.” “Well, of course imperfect men would not have everything right,” he said. “Then can’t that be said of other churches, imperfect men not getting everything right?” I asked. He went on to talk about how the church members would go about fighting in wars and participating in politics, etc, etc.. I brought up the Amish and he countered by asking me if the Amish spread the good news of the Kingdom like they do. While we agreed that the Amish don’t go around door to door like the witnesses do that fact alone is not enough to convince me that they are the one true religion. Neither does their grandiose claims of Jehovah’s Witnesses being around since Bible times. In spite of their claims, their religion did not exist prior to Russell in the 1800’s.

However, again, taking the conversation back to my original topic, I offered him this. If he could somehow prove to me that their current understanding of their blood doctrine is somehow indeed backed up by scripture or, barring that, prove to me that Watchtower is indeed God’s one sole channel here on Earth, I will listen to him. He told me that he could provide me some information but that it would be up to me to accept it. “That’s fine,” I said, “what is important is that the information provides inescapable proof that the blood doctrine is truly support by scripture or, barring that, that the information he provides proves inescapably that the Watchtower is God’s one sole channel. There should be no way out.” In other words, it should be air tight.

We ended the conversation on that note. I am not sure if he is even going to try to get that information for me. He sounded as if he realized that he was not going to convert me and may have decided in his mind that he was going to ‘brush the dust off his feet.’ After the conversation, I felt real bad for how it went. He is a nice guy and I did not want to get into any kind of sparring match with him or what not. I just wanted to express to him that I did not see the point of our continued study if he was not going to answer my questions concerning blood. On the other hand, if he can prove the selection by Christ in 1919, that would be a bonus.

8

The Bible's Buried Secrets

by thetrueone in

this television documentary has some very interesting information about the ancient civilization of.

i've seen when it aired a couple of years ago, so i thought i would post it .

up for the folks here to have a look.. you can watch it full screen by just clicking the video when its playing, which will take you directly to youtube.. there you can click the full screen icon and your good to go.. worthy to watch .

garyneal

markd