GLTirebiter

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Posts by GLTirebiter

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  13

  "Happiest People" Reference

  by tigresse in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was talking to a jw relative about the borg's claim that jws are the happiest people.

  she categorically denied that they ever made such a claim.

  does anyone have a reference?.

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  GLTirebiter

  Well done, Blondie. We can always count on you!
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  19

  Wish to debunk Witness God's Org Concept

  by Luo bou to in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i wish to reach my ex who is heavily entrenched in the org.

  i intend to argue along these lines using the parable of the wheat and the weeds.

  that jesus knows those that belong to him and today they are scattered throughout the different denominations of christendom.

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  GLTirebiter

  You're welcome, Luo! I'm just paying forward for the help I've gotten by lurking and reading here for several years.

  BTW, if you haven't read Randy's latest on freeminds, he has much more to say about this kind of situation: <http://www.freeminds.org/blogs/from-the-desk-of-randy/why-some-people-are-better-off-in-cults.html>
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  19

  Wish to debunk Witness God's Org Concept

  by Luo bou to in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i wish to reach my ex who is heavily entrenched in the org.

  i intend to argue along these lines using the parable of the wheat and the weeds.

  that jesus knows those that belong to him and today they are scattered throughout the different denominations of christendom.

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  GLTirebiter

  It's sad that his Mother can't be proud of our son like I am.

  That's a shame. I'm glad your son has seen through the WT teachings and recognizes what has happened to his mother. You are right to be proud of him! I hope your ex will someday appreciate both you and your son. But it's a sad fact that you can only help somebody who is willing to be helped.

  He refrains from challenging her since her sense of security lies with the Org.

  He seems to be a wise young man! As long as she relies on the organization for her sense of security, any criticism of it is threatening to her. What most would call a expressing an opinion and honest debate, a member sees as an attack on the organization (including themselves).

  My opinion, for what it's worth: The last three sentences are the heart of the letter. She's more likely to read them if she isn't on the defensive from a religious debate. Please discuss this with your son, listen to his advice, and work together. Then when she wonders "Where else can I go?", she can remember that her family is there and has always been there for her.
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  74

  I'm Still Torn About the Blood Issue

  by palmtree67 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i left the org.

  the blood issue wasn't an issue for me.

  my best friend was on the blood committee for years and i could see many cases where either blood wouldn't have saved the person anyways (like when a person is in a serious car accident and their liver is in pieces), or blood actually killed the person and/or hindered recovery.. then my little nephew got leukemia.

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  GLTirebiter

  Worse than the blood policy itself is the manipulation the hospital liaison committee uses to make the patient follow it. "We have talked to the doctor and he knows you follow Bible principles." "The doctor said 90% of Witnesses agree to accept blood when he asks them privately, but you're a good christian and won't fall for that trick, will you?" "Let's pray together for the spiritual strength to stand up to worldly influences." After that drama plays out, a patient worried about what's happening can hardly disagree and ignore the elders' advice. The elders are pleased to do their duty as faithful servants of God's organization. It's really scary that neither the patient nor the liaison elders seem to be aware of the script they're following. Neither recognizes the obvious psychological manipulation tactics. Such is the power of Watchtower indoctrination!
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  19

  Wish to debunk Witness God's Org Concept

  by Luo bou to in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i wish to reach my ex who is heavily entrenched in the org.

  i intend to argue along these lines using the parable of the wheat and the weeds.

  that jesus knows those that belong to him and today they are scattered throughout the different denominations of christendom.

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  GLTirebiter

  Since you said "ex" and apparently still have some communication with your ex, I wonder if children are involved? If so, for their sake, be sure that whatever you say will not inflame your ex and lead to loss of contact with them. You need to be the counter-example to Watchtower propaganda, to be the role model of an unbeliever who does love their children, who is not an evil person, who disagrees with what the Watchtower teaches but does not "hate the Witnesses" for believing those things. It's a hard place to be (I know from experience), but the example we set is the best and most important witness to other members of our divided families, especially the children.

  Discuss this only when it is clear you will be listened to ("deeply entrenched" members usually don't listen, they hear only what they are programmed to hear). Until they are clearly ready to hear what you want to say, lead them by Christian example rather than by engaging in arguments the Watchtower warns them to expect.
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  28

  Is it me or are kingdome halls butt ugly?

  by bluecanary in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the past several kingdom halls i've beein in (in the us) were all decorated the same way.

  one wallpaper below the wainscoting.

  a clashing wallpaper above the wainscoting.

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  GLTirebiter

  They forgot to put a door in this one. And a window would be nice.

  Almost every one I've seen has no windows. That serves several practical purposes. First, windows aren't cheap, take more time and skill to install properly, and even good ones leak more heat than an insulated wall. So leaving out the windows reduces both construction cost and quick-build time, and saves on the heating and air conditioning bills.

  Second, if there were windows the bored kids would be able to stare through them and wonder why they're inside on such a nice sunny day. Without windows, they have nothing better to do than listen to the speaker.

  Third, vandals can't break windows that aren't there.

  Yes, windowless Kingdom Halls are butt-ugly, but it's understandable why they build them that way.
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  13

  Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 21 September 2009

  by LUKEWARM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  *** lv chap.

  10 pp.

  110-120 marriage-a gift from a loving god ***.

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  GLTirebiter

  Such ones find themselves married to a person with whom they cannot share the most important things in life.

  This should be considered from the unbelieving spouses' point of view. What would they consider to be the most important things in life?

  Raising your children together with strong morals and ethics is the most important responsibility of adult life. Honest persons of any persuasion can share this duty: Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto, Animist, humanist, agnostic, atheist, others not mentioned, or JW. What counts is your own character and your willingness to cooperate in raising the children well, not your sect. Build on those things you and your spouse have in common, don't dwell on the differences. The Watchtower article turns that commonsense advice upside down.

  Are the holidays important to you? Remembering these special occasions is very important to those who observe Christmas, Rosh Hoshana, Ramadan, etc. They are also a time of family and community bonding, bringing closer those who drift away. The Watchtower does not merely insist their members sit out the holiday passively, they criticize the occasion and berate those who celebrate it. That is a source of strife that strains the mixed marriage, and the organization must accept that their rigid anti-holiday policy causes that strife (and is not in accord with their founder's teachings!). Don't forget that the Last Supper was a holiday observance: Passover.

  Many who are fortunate enough to live in lands with freely elected governments consider participating in the elections and other aspects of our civic life to be greatly important, an opportunity to align the laws of man with the laws of God and pass the gift and responsibility of freedom to new generations. The Watchtower organization mandates that Witnesses may not vote, may not run for office, may not particpate in any aspect of civic life. By preventing members from studying the issues and voting for the more moral choice, the organization is effectively supporting the less moral alternative.

  To people of faith and generosity, giving and sharing with others is important. Like the Good Samaritan, they show charity not just among their own kind, but to whoever needs it. Watchtower charity is very limited, essentially confined only to their own members. Do they run hospitals? Soup kitchens? Homeless shelters? Orphanages? Scholarship funds? Blood drives? When the Watchtower is involved, charity starts at home, but ends in Brooklyn Heights.

  Many people do find themselves married to a person with whom they cannot share the most important things in life: a person who has been denied those things by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society!
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  37

  Oct. 15th WT - WT Society Manipulation " Find True Friends Only in JW land"

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well- you knew this was coming next after the article of how to be jesus friend.

  so the wt society was setting it's members up to seek friends only in the ranks of jehovah's witnesses.

  basically in this article " maintaining friendships in a loveless world " - even from the title you get the impression the wt is showing that the world is loveless- but the jehovah's witnesses are not.

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  GLTirebiter

  wha happened said: Jw's feel intitled to talk down about non JW's in such an arrogant manner

  Yes, they do. Sometimes they slip up and do so among outsiders. My Ex's family members kept forgetting that I was not a member, nor a "study". They would prattle on about how bad "worldly" people were, how bad churches were, how evil blood transfusions were, and how bad the government is. Hello, remember me? The unbelieving spouse in the corner?

  I heard what they said. They know what my beliefs are. Why do they slander everything I believe in, while I can't say anything at all critical of the Society? Not even about the obvious dangers to women and children knocking on strangers' doors in the seamy parts of town? Or how witholding appropriate medical care from a child is murder, just as much as aborting that child would have been?

  I think they don't realize how much hypocrisy is on display. The indoctrination from the Watchtower tracts don't let them think about how the Society's own actions mirror everything they criticize about everybody who isn't part of that organization.

  In a way, they did me a huge favor. Seeing this up close and personal without the blinders of Watchtower "Bible studies" immunized me to their teachings. Seeing the Society for what it really was ensured that I would never accept Watchtower teachings. Perhaps I should thank my Witness in-laws for that!
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  51

  Our "Bible Study" with the Jehovah's Witnesses

  by garyneal in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my wife and i had a "bible study" with an elder and his wife yesterday (9-11-09) and the topic was marraige.

  the book we covered was "keeping yourself in god's love.

  " this particular "bible study" was based primarily on the topic we covered in the book and, of course, there was a lot of "hop scotching" of the bible.

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  GLTirebiter

  in spite of their claims that someone becoming a JW actually improves marraige, I've read too many accounts of the opposite occuring.

  That was very true in our case, too. The WT "improves" a marriage only when both parties make the organization their false god. The couple's first priority is the society, not each other. The couple act not as adult partners, but rather as children under control of a domineering organization. If one partner stubbornly persists in "unbelieving", their mate is to withdraw from them, to "truly hate them", if they are to be true to WT teachings.

  What the WT does doesn't improve a marriage. It makes captives of both marital partners if at all possible. If not, they will settle for the half they can get, and the other half becomes "bird seed" to be thrown out on the ground.

  Call me bird seed. As the unbelieving party in our marriage, I knew early on that I shouldn't ask her to choose between me and the organization: her first loyalty was to them, not to me. Though I never asked her to make that choice, she finally did. In a way, that's a relief: three is definitely a crowd when the WT is part of the picture.
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  71

  ex wants to be free to remarry - ugh

  by No Apologies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, i'm sure i am not the first one to be in this predicament but it sure is a headache, my jw ex called a few days ago, apparently she has met someone (they're not dating of course!

  ) and she wants to me to hand over the golden ticket.

  she wants confirmation either in writing or verbally to a third party, that she is "scripturally free" to remarry.. i have managed for years now to avoid any judicial action and my jw family members still associate with me, but that all could come to a screeching halt if i give her what she wants.. the only bright side is she totally robbed me on the divorce; if she gets married i am at least off the hook for "spousal maintenance", that would mean potentially thousands of dollars in my pocket.... .

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  GLTirebiter

  I can relate to your pain. My situation is a bit different, because I never joined the Society nor even "studied". To me, paying spousal support means subsidizing her working only part time, which means subsidizing her religion: a religion I don't believe in.

  What I have is integrity. I won't lie about myself or commit the act she's so often (falsely) accused me of just to get her off my back. I am morally as well as legally bound to support her and the kids, and I do so even though it strains me financially.

  That integrity, that self respect, is something she can't take away. And I won't give it away just so she can remarry in the Kingdom Hall. She knew the score before she said "yes". Then she got tired of being married to me, filed for divorce, and now she must live with that choice. She has the option to leave the WT: she did so once before (years before she dated me and became my wife), and she can do so again if she chooses. Yes, that choice has consequences, but it's hers to make and hers to live with. Not mine.

  Stand strong, friend. Don't do something you'll regret. "The best response to divorce is living well."