Posts by JAVA

63

Are you Ex's still Christian?

by joel in

jw
friends

whassup guys.

i've spent most of my web time over the last 2 years at another site full of ex-jdubs...i'd say about 50 people post there on occasion...many of that number regularly.. what struck me from the beginning, as i got to know the people posting there was...how many were now atheists...non-believers in god...the bible...pretty much anything they once held sacred as jw's!.

i dare say...90 some % do not consider themselves christian now!.

JAVA

charlie,

I see you're new to the group, glad you dropped in and posted. I think it's a cultural norm for most to consider themselves Christian if they live in locations that's mostly that faith. Most people in the world are not Christian, but have other faiths, some much older than Christian. I know some who consider themselves atheists, but I don't believe they are non-believers because of attention. In fact most atheists I know don't bring the topic up unless the issue is pressed.

Some people seek attention by saying or doing things out of the norm, but I believe attention seekers comes from all persuasions.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

63

Are you Ex's still Christian?

by joel in

jw
friends

whassup guys.

i've spent most of my web time over the last 2 years at another site full of ex-jdubs...i'd say about 50 people post there on occasion...many of that number regularly.. what struck me from the beginning, as i got to know the people posting there was...how many were now atheists...non-believers in god...the bible...pretty much anything they once held sacred as jw's!.

i dare say...90 some % do not consider themselves christian now!.

JAVA

I am an agnotic, which simply means "I don't know"

Agnostics get a bum rap in the United States because of honestly saying, "hey, I really don't know." It seems to make theists uncomfortable. The agnostic is not saying thesists are wrong, but religious faith is just that--faith (usually the definition of god others mapped out).

I'm not saying faith is a bad thing unless it forces itself on others with various outcomes to non-believers. Faith can help us get through the bad times, and suggest possibilities beyond what is proven. Faith in the Tower's version of Jehovah brought this group together now that we are free from the yoke of the Society. Most of us wouldn't be on this db if it wasn't for the faith we had as Witnesses. Even misguided faith can have some possitive results.

Serious religious faith can be a serious mistake. Looking back to our days in "the Truth" accents this point. Putting all faith in one basket is disasterous if the bottom falls out, like we experienced with the Society. Faith-Lite is the brand of theology I drink because it's willing to look at many ideas without the need of forcing others or myself into submission. Any faith that says, "it's my way or the highway" leaves little room to explore the realm of "what ifs" agnostics and seekers can enjoy.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 19 January 2001 22:3:37

21

better or worse??

by peaceloveharmony in

jw
friends

hi-i have a question for everyone.

i was just wondering if your life has improved since you've left the org?

for me i left when i was 17, went to college, met a great guy who i live with now and have a ton of great friends.

JAVA

I won't go further because the others are serious about the changes in their life. However, if you want to see my latest brand of humor go to the Heresy of the Month. It has been much fun.

I hope some on the list don't think I'm making fun of the topic introduced by peaceloveharmony, I'm not. I appreciate and enjoy reading how folks get a life beyond the Tower.

As most of us know, the Society paints all people as followers of Satan if they're not JWs. One way of showing the craziness of that is using satire to show its absurdity. Satire is a writing style that uses an ounce of truth to expose a ton lies or blunders. It forces the reader to look at the issue, and see the results if carried to an end point. These results are often humorous but pointed. My friend larc uses this from time to time, too. I guess we travel in the same gutter.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 19 January 2001 10:47:19

21

better or worse??

by peaceloveharmony in

jw
friends

hi-i have a question for everyone.

i was just wondering if your life has improved since you've left the org?

for me i left when i was 17, went to college, met a great guy who i live with now and have a ton of great friends.

JAVA

larc,

As a former JW, I just received the latest copy of Satan Today, perhaps you'll get yours in the mail tomorrow. I see we're allowed to count time caring for the sick and elderly. Taking Mom to the doctor means I got in 2 hours today. Thanks for your kind words, Brother larc.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 18 January 2001 23:59:28

21

better or worse??

by peaceloveharmony in

jw
friends

hi-i have a question for everyone.

i was just wondering if your life has improved since you've left the org?

for me i left when i was 17, went to college, met a great guy who i live with now and have a ton of great friends.

JAVA

It's terrible being sucked back into Satan's world. I used to attend five meetings a week, underlined the "food in due season," and parroted the answers during meetings so others could enjoy the new light from the God's organization. Now that I'm following Satan, I'm forced to think on my own, find out who I really am, and do wicked things like helping serve food at soup kitchens.

I missed the five weekly meetings so much, and told Satan he better come up with something else or I would return to the KH. That really got his attention, so he sent me to a university where my time was wasted on classes. Before I knew it, I discovered a little about myself, and learned many new things. Satan is not to be trused, because I found work in the field of education, and now I'm helping other people on their journey. I really miss knocking on doors with the magazines, spending vacation time at assemblies, and the hours at the KH with enlightened people who never questioned the Watchtower, the elders, or anything from the Society. Tears are rolling down my cheeks now as I think of all I've lost by worshiping Satan.

Well, I've got to go now . . . you see I'm looking after my 86-year old mother who needs a ride to the doctor's office. Back in the good old days as a Witness, I didn't have time for her because she is not a JW. That Devil sure is sly.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 18 January 2001 23:45:36

17

What is the big Deal !!!

by GeneBean in

jw
friends

hello my name is gene, i have been disfellowshiped for two weeks.why is it so wrong for brothers and sisters not to talk to me?

?im not apostate,ive never disrupted the congergation.my brothers an elder and i dont want to tell him or my family.. whats the big big deal???????????

?

JAVA

Joel:

Some Witnesses play the "I'm so sorry" game better than others when going before a committee. Others can be treated differently because of connections in the congregation (e.g., an elder's son or daughter). Add to this the elders who are into power trips, and hungry for their first kill.

Congregations have different personalities, and the elders in one location have dispositions effecting outcomes different from another congregation. The rank-n-file JWs are caught in the middle, most without a glue when before a committee (thinking it's Jehovah's organization, and fairness is uniform).

Yes, my examples of Solomon, David, and Abraham being shunned are questionable but when you think about this topic, it depends on the committee, and how well they played the "I'm so sorry" game, and the influence they have. I know some committees who would shun Jesus for wearing a beard.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 18 January 2001 7:46:30

17

What is the big Deal !!!

by GeneBean in

jw
friends

hello my name is gene, i have been disfellowshiped for two weeks.why is it so wrong for brothers and sisters not to talk to me?

?im not apostate,ive never disrupted the congergation.my brothers an elder and i dont want to tell him or my family.. whats the big big deal???????????

?

JAVA

ianao,

I understand that, but I was referring to someone in GeneBean's shoes. He has admitted that he became weak and slept with another woman.

Using this argument we need to shun Solomon, David, Abraham, and many other folks found in scripture. I sure wish God would make up his mind; it's okay for Abraham, but lets give GeneBean the shaft. Paul said this, but Jesus said and did that. About the only folks Jesus treated with contempt were some of the religious leaders of his day. I think Brooklyn has more to fear from Jesus, than Gene has to fear from Brooklyn.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 18 January 2001 7:14:13

17

What is the big Deal !!!

by GeneBean in

jw
friends

hello my name is gene, i have been disfellowshiped for two weeks.why is it so wrong for brothers and sisters not to talk to me?

?im not apostate,ive never disrupted the congergation.my brothers an elder and i dont want to tell him or my family.. whats the big big deal???????????

?

JAVA

ianao,

"Don't if you don't want to." Of course that means one should not associate with many members in each congregation, but that's another topic. Just because a person exits the Tower, doesn't in itself mean they are adulterers, etc. Jesus seemed to enjoy the company of many people some gospel writers had a problem with; thus I wonder about the counsel of Paul and others who were products of their time, but out of step with the actions of Jesus.

When one thinks about it, there are several writers of the Bible that would be, well . . . you know, bad associations.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 17 January 2001 16:14:1

72

When should you Disassociate yourself?

by happytobefree in

jw
friends

i have been having discussion with my sister (relative), who is an active witness, about writing a letter of disassociation.

the reason being is that i have not attended the meetings in over a year and it's been 4 years since i have went out in the jw ministry.. i going to try to sum this topic up.

my sister think that i should not da myself because i have not done any immoral act in her thinking.

JAVA

larc:

I think that the ability for people to communicate here and see how many people felt and thought before, during, and after coming out is very theraputic for newbies and seniors alike.

Good information! Animal Farm by George Orwell, is a great novel on how "Groupthink" works. It's a MUST READ for folks exiting high-control religions.

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

17

What is the big Deal !!!

by GeneBean in

jw
friends

hello my name is gene, i have been disfellowshiped for two weeks.why is it so wrong for brothers and sisters not to talk to me?

?im not apostate,ive never disrupted the congergation.my brothers an elder and i dont want to tell him or my family.. whats the big big deal???????????

?

JAVA

Gene,

The Society uses disfellowshipping (shunning) to control their followers. Nearly all high-control religions use some form of shunning, but the Society goes beyond many of them with their extreme use of this practice. It has very little to do with "keeping the congregation clean," and more to do with using fear to keep the flock in line. Fear of loosing family and life-long friends, and not being treated as human works wonders if your social network is 99.9% JWs. This tends to keep followers in the field selling magazines for this multi-million dollar printing firm with a god complex. That my friend, . . . is "THE BIG BIG DEAL."

JAVA, counting time at the Coffee Shop

Edited by - JAVA on 17 January 2001 11:50:55