JAVA

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Posts by JAVA

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  50

  Personal "God" and self-representation

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is commonly assumed that monotheism, in its jewish, christian and moslem forms, resulted in (or was related to) a specific development of human self-representation.

  before a unique creator and judge the individual had to stand as an indivisible unit (e.g.

  the "soul" in the middle ages) which was either justified or condemned, either saved or lost.

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  JAVA

  If I found a watch on the beach, it's fairly easy say someone made it. The argument goes that humans are indeed more complex than a watch, thus a god or intelligent force had to make humans (and the same goes for the earth, known and unknown universe, etc.). This is evidence to establish that there is a god or intelligent force.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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  50

  Personal "God" and self-representation

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is commonly assumed that monotheism, in its jewish, christian and moslem forms, resulted in (or was related to) a specific development of human self-representation.

  before a unique creator and judge the individual had to stand as an indivisible unit (e.g.

  the "soul" in the middle ages) which was either justified or condemned, either saved or lost.

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  JAVA

  The Christian's take on monotheism is somewhat puzzling to me when the Trinity doctrine was added to the theological mix. However, that's another thread, and not intended to highjack this discussion.

  I have found that when beliefs and conceptual interpretations (not just beliefs in a god, but all beliefs especially those concerning who I am) are absent, a sense of unity and oneness is more readily apparent. In other words: the less there is of me, the more there is of God.

  JT -- Your comments about the feeling of unity and oneness becoming more evident as you empty yourself of beliefs once held is interesting in that you sense more of God, and less of self. Perhaps there is a "God gene" lurking in our DNA after all. Whatever we call it, many people state they feel a spiritual something when they clean their conceptual closets. On the other hand, others might have a different take on where it takes them. How does the saying go; "There is one god, and the sages call it by many names." For some that could include the absence of god, just as it means the opposite to others.

  I'm not sure where it takes me; perhaps to a personal crossroad.
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  50

  Personal "God" and self-representation

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is commonly assumed that monotheism, in its jewish, christian and moslem forms, resulted in (or was related to) a specific development of human self-representation.

  before a unique creator and judge the individual had to stand as an indivisible unit (e.g.

  the "soul" in the middle ages) which was either justified or condemned, either saved or lost.

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  JAVA

  Words, damn words!
  
  Yep Carmel, that's what I meant, but not what I typed. As usual, I'm ALWAYS my worst editor, and spell check didn't pull me out of that hole, or is it whole? :-)
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  33

  Speaking of user names...

  by Mastodon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  did y'all pick your own user names?

  'cause mine was given to me when i registered so i never got the chance to choose it...

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  JAVA

  And for you clown lovers.....

  xjw -- The last one of the clowns is very dangerous!
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  50

  Personal "God" and self-representation

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is commonly assumed that monotheism, in its jewish, christian and moslem forms, resulted in (or was related to) a specific development of human self-representation.

  before a unique creator and judge the individual had to stand as an indivisible unit (e.g.

  the "soul" in the middle ages) which was either justified or condemned, either saved or lost.

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  JAVA

  The Western philosopher Descartes, mostly remember today as the "I think, therefore I am" guy was greatly interested in reconstruction of knowledge. If one is able, for example, to remove all that we believe and start over, where would it take us?

  Removing ourselves from monotheism or theism altogether does not in itself destroy the god or gods, for "if they think, they are." But if one removes the belief of theism, it is genuinely possible to articulate unity and diversity without the constraints of my god is better than your god.

  I think the less invested one is in a belief constructed by others, the more able one is to be diverse. That doesn't mean a person will be diverse, and seek greater unity, but group theism doesn't have a great track record either. Having a personal belief (which is my myth) has helped me to except others without the filters I had before.

  "Speak not concerning designs of the gods and buddhas." -- Zen monk Ryokan (1758-1813)
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  9

  "Crisis of conscience"

  by fairy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i am going to the library in a day or two to pick up the book "crisis of conscience" they got in for me because i have read everyones opinions on the book....... i am not sure what to expect when i read it.......

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  JAVA

  "C of C" is an excellent read, and was very helpful to me during the time I had questions about the Tower. This was before the Internet, which made the book the most important resource during that time.
  
  I can recommend another book, if you can find it. "Visions of Glory" by Barbara Crizzuti Harrison. 1978: New York, Simon and Schuster. It's out of print, but some libraries have it, or you can do a computer search and find a used copy from one of the booksellers. Harrison died a few years ago. She was an excellent writer, and it's a great read about her life growing up as a Witness. She offers many insights about life at Brooklyn, from a woman's perspective.
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  9

  1975 True Believers -- 201 (part two)

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in "1975 believer -- 101" at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/88161/1.ashx we discussed how a jehovah's witness with a conviction is a hard person to change despite overwhelming evidence that the conviction is wrong.

  this new thread introduces conditions under which we can expect to observe increased fervor following the disconfirmation of a belief.

  there are five conditions the true believer class needs to increase activity, even when others within the movement decrease involvement.

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  JAVA

  Scully -- Your comments show how the JW-True-Believer Class fits into the five conditions that one can expect to see INCREASSED efforts after the disconfirming event in their life, like the failure of The End in 1975. Indeed, while many were slowing down and dropping out, the Believer Class picked up speed.
  
  I appreciate your point about, "They made these sacrifices and 30 years later are still paying for them." That?s the tragedy of being a True Believer, and it also points to pitfalls of exiting members. After years, sometimes decades, of "waiting on Jehovah" or "not running ahead of the organization," it's difficult starting a family, going to college, planning for retirement, etc.
  
  There is no doubt about it, being a Jehovah Witness is bad for your health and well being.
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  32

  There is a SIGN on the inside of the door of the KH that says....

  by Jez in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "turn in your time".

  i am not kidding.

  everyone that leaves, sees that sign, everytime.. jez

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  JAVA

  DOING TIME? -- REPORT IT!
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  9

  1975 True Believers -- 201 (part two)

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in "1975 believer -- 101" at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/88161/1.ashx we discussed how a jehovah's witness with a conviction is a hard person to change despite overwhelming evidence that the conviction is wrong.

  this new thread introduces conditions under which we can expect to observe increased fervor following the disconfirmation of a belief.

  there are five conditions the true believer class needs to increase activity, even when others within the movement decrease involvement.

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  JAVA

  Blondie - Thanks for the info and link. You're right about how the JW experience is not just unique to the group. While doing research on the shunning effects of former JWs in the 1980s, there was very little scholarly research done on the Witnesses. However, when I looked at other high-control and cult-like groups, I was amazed how similar they were to the Witnesses, and my experience! The format for these groups are nearly the same in many respects.
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  9

  1975 True Believers -- 201 (part two)

  by JAVA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in "1975 believer -- 101" at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/88161/1.ashx we discussed how a jehovah's witness with a conviction is a hard person to change despite overwhelming evidence that the conviction is wrong.

  this new thread introduces conditions under which we can expect to observe increased fervor following the disconfirmation of a belief.

  there are five conditions the true believer class needs to increase activity, even when others within the movement decrease involvement.

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  JAVA

  I've edited the above post using Explorer, and removed the comments on this post. Mac folks using Sarari can't edit on that format. :-)