Posts by Awen

18

KH and DF attendance question

by diamondiiz in

i was reading brotherdan's thread about df individuals having to sit at the back or/and leave for song and prayer.

i know this practice varies from hall to hall or is regional but i was wondering what right do they have to do this if kh is a public place?

it's a charitable organization, public place open to all i thought.

I see the Kingdom Hall like a private home. People are welcome to come over, you can be let in if you aren't disruptive and stay a while. There may be certain rules of conduct which are subject to change at any time without prior notice. It simply depends upon the persons involved.

If the police were called to have you removed, the elders could make up anything they liked and you'd be hard pressed to prove they had done anything wrong. As far as I know the rules for attending aren't written down anywhere for the public to see. It's their building and they can run it the way they see fit. The public authorities would most likely say that if you don't like the JW rules then stay away from them. But to willfully return would show a predisposition for disrupting the JW meetings. They could also serve a restraining order on you.

51

"The FDS has lovingly given us time"

by Crisis of Conscience in

boy am i tired of hearing this one.

yes folks, i heard it at the meeting this week...again.

the sm included a local needs part and this was the subject - family worship night.. apparently, regarding fwn, that time was never, nor now is, ours.

Awen

I think that the GB is misinformed about the ones under their care. Since the GB has nothing better to do on Tuesday nights, they figure the same must hold true for everyone else. So they put in this "loving provision" to help the bored, the lonely, the friendless and the unappreciated find fellowship with others and to share their "wisdom" with others. Oh wait,...this sounds like a GB issue and not a Great Crowd issue.

The GC for the most part have friends, family, secular jobs, children to look after, something the GB has no concept of. Also I think it meant to keep the GC busy so that there's no time for independent research.

20

Who are the Pharisees today?

by dothemath in

i find many similiarities between the pharisees and witnesses today......... both used disfellowshipping as a weapon (john 12: 42........"because of the pharisees they would not confess.

him, in order not to be expelled from the synagogue").

both add endless rules, yet forget about the important ones, such as love, etc.

Awen

I'm reminded of Mark 2:27 "Then Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath."

To me this means the sabbath was meant as a benefit to man and wasn't meant to be burdensome, yet some religious leaders of the day took an event that was all about compassion and turned it into something entirely different.

Jesus repeatedly healed people on the sabbath, showing that life and the overall health of a person is more important than a law. If a law or rule puts a person's life in jeopardy, then the law could and should be dispensed with in that instance.

Yet the religious rulers of the day (like the Governing Body) saw that the adherence to a rule was more important than human life, which is in direct opposition of God's love and compassion.

I think the following verses sum up the Governg Body attitude.

Matthew 23:1-7 1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2"The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. 3So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach. 4They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.

5"Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels. 6And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.'

Matthew 23:13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

22

Better Kingdom Melodies

by LittleMac in

jw
friends

just a thought yesterday as i was eating lunch with my 5 yr. old son.

the restaurant had ccr's bad moon rising playing, and i thought,.

this could be a real up temp song to sing at the hall and it even has the lyrics that speak of impending doom.

Awen

I would like to hear this sung before Field Service.

AC/DC

22

Better Kingdom Melodies

by LittleMac in

jw
friends

just a thought yesterday as i was eating lunch with my 5 yr. old son.

the restaurant had ccr's bad moon rising playing, and i thought,.

this could be a real up temp song to sing at the hall and it even has the lyrics that speak of impending doom.

Awen

Governing Body Anthem

The music says it all

If I recall correctly there is an actual Kingdom Melody with the same arrangement as the above song.

63

Disfellowshiped ARE REQUIRED to sit in the library!

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

my mother-in-law is making leaps and bounds in her progress to get out of the watchtower.

for those of you that don't know, she is df'd but has been working on "coming back".

recently i've been able to exchange emails about the dangers of the organization and share jesus with her.

Awen

20

Who are the Pharisees today?

by dothemath in

i find many similiarities between the pharisees and witnesses today......... both used disfellowshipping as a weapon (john 12: 42........"because of the pharisees they would not confess.

him, in order not to be expelled from the synagogue").

both add endless rules, yet forget about the important ones, such as love, etc.

Awen

I would say the GB and loveless elders are the Pharisees. Also having the Holy Spirit doesn't make a person infallible. The Apostles (for example) had it and made mistakes all the time. The Holy Spirit simply gives insight which a person might otherwise lack. It also presents different choices, which we can choose to ignore because of free will.

12

If hindsight was 20/20, would you have done the same things given the chance to change?

by sinis in

jw
friends

in respects to the dubs.

what kind of things did you miss out on, accomplish?

for me, i probably would because now i'm free and while in i met my wonderful wife (who is also free) of 18 years.

Awen

If I had it to do all over, yeah I would have stayed in. Not for myself (I have one relative in Savannah, GA who is a JW), but for my friends whom I miss dearly. There were cliques and people who were more popular than others or who had more money, etc, but those things never mattered to me. I would have stayed in order to set an example (I hope) of how a Christian should be. I often spoke to DFed people and ignored what the elders had to say about it. I pointed out that Corinthians mentions that the man who took his father's wife had repented and was evetually reinstated, but how was this possible if he was shunned in the same way JW's shun people today. So obviously someone was talking to him and not at meetings since they took place in private homes where he wouldn't be welcome.

I thought we were supposed to follow in Christ's footsteps and if I saw BS, I called people on it, be they an elder or not.

yeah, no wonder I was DFed. lol

63

Disfellowshiped ARE REQUIRED to sit in the library!

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

my mother-in-law is making leaps and bounds in her progress to get out of the watchtower.

for those of you that don't know, she is df'd but has been working on "coming back".

recently i've been able to exchange emails about the dangers of the organization and share jesus with her.

Awen

Last year I went back to the local KH with a friend of mine who had just recently been reinstated. We often had meals together (in direct violation of WTS doctrine). He was an elder before he was Dfed for adultery (his wife divorced him over it). Anyway, when I went back for the Memorial, I sat in the back row. When JW's asked me to move so their families could sit together, I informed them that I was DFed and that I was sitting where I was supposed to be and that the back rows where for my ilk and latecomers. /shoo JW's /Shoo...

Before the meeting began I saw an old friend who was DFed at the time and walked up to him and greeted him. He informed me he was DFed and I replied. "So am I". I then gave him a big hug and told him to hang in there and that all would be well in time. I remember tears welling up in his eyes. I guess it's because no one showed him any compassion and even though he was wheelchair bound, he was pushed into a far corner at the back of the hall and ignored. An elder came up to me and said I wasn't supposed to be talking to the DFed brother and I asked why. He said DFed persons weren't allowed to socialize. I asked him what he meant and he quoted the scripture in Corinithians about how DFed person are to be treated. I pointed out to him how that scripture is speaking to approved Christians and their dealings with unrepentent ones. Since the Brother and myself were DFed already, the scripture had no application on us, since also by WTS standards we were no longer brothers in the Organization. The elder had nothing to say.

So I stayed for the Memorial, partook (which got a few elders attention, especially the one who tried to reprove me) and when the meeting was over and I was waiting for my friend to finish socializing, I went back to the DFed brother and spoke with him again. Of course the same elder came back, said something to me about my partaking, that I was too young and was obviously wrong. I mentioned the May 2007 WT which stated no one had the right to questions someone's decision on this matter and that he needed to go look it up. I also reminded him that it wasn't his place to "correct" me for showing love and compassion to another human being. I couldn't resist pointing out to him how Jesus said that anyone who mistreated his "Brothers" were also mistreating Him and that the elder might consider this the next time he decided to behave presumptously by trying to correct someone and not even having his information straight.

I'm usually not this way and I don't talk about the 144k thing, but this guy needed to be put in his place and it felt like the right thing to do.

So afterwards I left the hall and felt really good about how well the meeting went.

Peace,

Awen

23

could i walk into a K/Hall and get literature?

by Aussie Oz in

jw
friends

just wondering!.

i know many would say ''why the hell would you do that?".

just wondering if i could actually get hard copies of some stuff for a 'donation' and not have to hunt it down.... mind you, i'd have a hard time making myself look conservative!.

Awen

Try ebay. Loads of Watchtower literature for sale there. http://books.shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=watchtower&_sacat=267