Posts by Larsinger58

29

Seven Times Do Not Equal 2,520 Days

by DT in

how long is seven times?

it's important to note that the bible doesn't say.

jehovah's witnesses have calculated that it comes to 2,520 days.

Larsinger58

Sir82:

What the hey?

You used to claim to be Jesus H. Christ in the flesh!

Talk about a demotion.....

Aha! Nice observation S82! I was one of the anointed before I became used to embody the physical Christ at the second coming. If you will notice the vision in Revelation, the Christ is born from the woman who is in the earth, meaning the Christ comes from among the anointed elect.

I was reinstated after a long time being out around 1989, the beginning of the 70th week. It was too painful to do to the local congregation so I became inactive until I moved far away from anyone who knew me and my past. I grew up in the Compton Area, an inner city suburb of L.A. I moved up to Duarte, California near the San Gabriel mountains. Once there I decided to become active again and showed up at the local Kingdom Hall at the Memorial. I knew the routine. The brothers greet all strangers and ask what is going on. I told them I was inactive but wanted to come back and so they immediately assigned someone to study with me. But by the summer a lot of things started to come to my attention, things that the WTS had wrong and then holy spirit guided me to my anointing. It was the typical anointing where they claim suddenly passages in the Bible seem to speak directly to you, etc.

Then other things guided by holy spirit started happening and I considered myself a special "prophet" and so did the JIOR members who contacted me and initiated me into the ways of the JIOR one day out in service. They all knew who I was before I did. Then I was moved to write the WTS about some of this false teachings and while writing the letter the next thing I knew, Jehovah was "disfellowshipping" them from his heavenly organization and labeling them the "evil slave" and the "man of lawlessness." To show repentance, they were given a couple of false doctrines to correct. Of course, they have stubbornly refused. I wrote the letter as "the watchman" who is Jesus Christ, which I did not know at the time. That was on November 10, 1992.

Then, as this special prophet, I was led to believe there was a need to hide me out to continue my research and exposure of the WTS. So jumping into dumpsters was part of that plan to secretly get me out of the city to some secluded place. But it turned out I was to become Jesus Christ. Now I had seen Jesus Christ earlier, so it didn't dawn on me that I was any more than a special prophet gaining this special information.

Then when I climbed into that final dumpster in hopes of escaping whomever was following me, at the time the CIA agents from the UN, but I didn't know that then, I became the messiah. Hard to believe but there all the details were right there in scripture connected to the prodigal son becoming the messiah, which is only possible with an imperfect person's life. That life of the "prodigal son" was actually me and my deflection from the faith when I was dealing with my homosexuality.

Anyway, I still consider myself an "anointed JW" in spite of becoming the messiah later. I mentioned that to suggest I have as much insight via holy spirit as the WTS claims to have, only they are in darkness now.

So, sorry, but I'm still the Christ at the moment. Of course, that implies my interpretation is also the "official" interpretation of the 2520 years.

LS

29

Seven Times Do Not Equal 2,520 Days

by DT in

how long is seven times?

it's important to note that the bible doesn't say.

jehovah's witnesses have calculated that it comes to 2,520 days.

Larsinger58

In general, I believe the WTS in this case has an adequate explanation for assigning "2520 days" to "7 times" because of the specific statement reference that 3.5 times is 1260 days. That's very fundamental. How that is applied in fulfillment to actual solar years or some specialized year is a matter of observation.

Additionally, I believe there is adequate Biblical support for applying the conversion of the days to years because of Ezekiel 4:6 which gives us the formula of "a day for a year."

So I agree with the WTS in both the interpretation and relative application of this prophecy. The only difference is that I have my own date for the fall of Jerusalem in 529 BCE, whereas the WTS uses 607 BCE. Otherwise, everything is the same. Thus:

WTS: 2520 - 607 = 1913 +1 = 1914

MINE: 2520 - 529 = 1991 +1 = 1992

But now that I'm thinking about it. I'm wondering if this is based on the Egyptian year. Perhaps they chose to express this in terms of the Egytian year for simplicity's sake. The Egyptian months are 30 days and each year 360 days, to which they added the extra 5 days at the end of the year. So even with the Egyptian year calculation based on the 30-day month, the presumption is that this would be adjusted to the solar year by adding 5 days to each year so that you are calculating and counting normal solar years, rather than some complex specialized year.

Thus in passing, the "70 weeks" also was fulfilled by lunar-solar years. The WTS dates the beginning of the "70 weeks" prophecy in 455 BCE based on 483 solar years back from 29 CE, the year of Jesus' baptism. That works out perfectly per the VAT4956, which we can use to determine the original Neo-Babylonian timeline, a timeline that obviously does not match the Biblical Neo-Babylonian period. Using 511 BCE for year 37, we can date year 23 to 525 BCE, the year of the last deportation. That means 70 years later the 1st of Cyrus would fall in 525 BCE. If the 483 years of the 69 weeks are actual lunar-solar years, then we should have seen the appearance of the messiah in 29 CE, which we do. So apparently, however, calculated, the "applied" chronology is a reference to the usual, standard solar year, whether Egyptian where you add 5 days to the 360 days, or you use the Jewish lunar-solar year where they add an intercalary month every 2-3 years over 19 years to keep up with the solar year.

LS

29

Seven Times Do Not Equal 2,520 Days

by DT in

how long is seven times?

it's important to note that the bible doesn't say.

jehovah's witnesses have calculated that it comes to 2,520 days.

Larsinger58

Nice argument and observation. People interpret things their own way to get their own results, everyone is entitled to do that, including you. But here's what I find a bit inconsistent in your argument.

1. First of all, the Jews maintained a lunar-solar calendar, one that adjusted the lunar months to the lunar year, thus the intercalary month. So per JWs, the months used for calculating years was a round-off month of 30 days each when then became a year of 1260. That formula is used to calculate the years but when it is literally played out, it is played out in lunar-solar years.

2. The other thing is that we know lunar months are 29 days plus some minutes. Some lunar months are 29 days and some 30 days. But when you apply exactly 30 days to each month, as in the case of the 1260 days, you are going to get a figurative year of 360 days, which is slightly shorter than the actual lunar year, but slightly shorter than the solar year of 365.25 years. Because of the difference between lunar and solar, a standard concept of 30 days per month and 360 days per year was used to calculating prophetic periods. But when they played out, they played out per the standard Jewish lunar-solar calendar. That's the WTS' interpretation of this. But sometimes, of course, when you are speaking of the 3.5 times, it can be exchanged for the 1290 days as well. So the actual fulfillment of the applied prophecy would determine if 3.5 times was to be 1290 days or 1260 days.

3. But there is one more thing to consider as well, historically. The Egyptians used a 30-day month. All their months were 30 days each, making their year some 360 days long. But the Egyptians also coordinated this to the solar year by adding 5 days to the end of the year. This lends to the presumption that whlie the 30-day month was more symbolic, there's the context that even that 360-day year would be adjusted every year to match solar years, so that the calculation of the total years would be played out in the natural solar year, whether you use the Egyptian calendar or the Jewish lunar-solar calendar.

How fulfilled? One interpretation.

As we can see, there are various ways to interpret and apply these "7 times"! The question is, how it the Bible itself applying it? Which version of the 1260 days is being used? A very strict application or is it adjusted to the lunar-solar calendar used by the Jews? Good question. But we do have one other factor to consider and that is whether one of these applications fits the fulfilled prophecy.

So the big question is whether "7 times" is applied to the lunar-solar year or to a lesser period? We can answer that by the fulfilled prophecy. That's because, as applied, the 2520 years, solar or lunar, is the gap between the fall of Jerusalem and the 2nd coming. But you have to have the correct dates and being willing to accept reality, which is the manipulation of the timeline by the pagans. Fortunately, we have the VAT4956 which dates year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar to 511 BCE based on the original timeline. If that's the case, then year 19 falls in 529 BCE as the true year for the fall of Jerusalem. In another prophecy, the messiah must fulfill "1335 days" which is 45 days after the end of 1290 days. The 1290 days ends Jewish exile and sees them returning to their homeland. This occurred on November 30, 1947 when the "Partition Agreement" went into effect. When this is applied to the 1290 days, the messiah would arrive 45 years later in 1992.

So using ancient astronomy combined with modern fulfillment, we can test how many years and what type of years fall between 1992 and 529 BCE to determine the correct fufillment and interpretation of "2520 years." As you will observe, there is exactly 2520 lunar-solar years between 529 BCE and 1992. So, "apparently" after using the 30-day month, 360-day year, and 2520-day 7-year period to calculate the years in the prpohecy, when they are played out, they are adjusted to lunar solar years. Keeping in mind, 360-day years are slightly longer than the 12-month lunar year and slightly shorter than the 365-day solar year.

Even so, everyone still has to make up their own minds about this. The above is just one way the prophecy does get fulfilled and works out with the numbers. So if you come up with a fulfillment using another calculation, that's your choice. However, at this point, because of the above, there can be no legitimate claim this "2520 year" prophecy was not fulfilled nor can be fulfilled. Regarding Nebuchadnezzar, the presumption is that he spent 7 lunar-solar years away from his throne, that is, the standard Jewish year though represented as "7 times."

In the Bible, "times" like a "day" can be various lengths, including a 24-hour day, a year, a 1000 years, or 7000 years (creative day). So the interpretation and fulfillment will determine just what length a "time" is. A "time" is any length that fits the fulfillment.

You ask "Do seven times equal 2520 days?" Well it depends on your interpretation of what a "time" is, and that is a flexible term, obviously.

It's a complex topic and it is understandable why it can be confusing. I'm happy I worked out my own interpretation based on my own chronology, so it works for me. But it may not for others, understandably. I'm an "anointed" JW.

LS

25

What about alternative help for substance abuse?

by harleybear in

i am a recovering alcoholic and a former jw.

my attempt to get help from the elders was only met with threats of judicial action.

i stepped out of the box and sought help from aa.

Larsinger58

A big problem with the WTS is that they recruit people who develop a relationship of worship with the organization and not God himself.

The Bible prophesied this "evil slave," which is the WTS would beat its fellow brothers, which is precisely what you are experiencing. Sometimes it is not even personal. They are just carrying out what the WTS dictates.

I've been to AA meetings myself and the support people give to each other and shared experiences I found to be helpful. My dad, an active witness, went to AA for a while. He had a drinking problem. I don't think the local congregation brothers gave him a hard time. His drinking was a family and private issue for the most part; I don't think he went to the brothers for that kind of help. On the other hand, he has always had a strained relationship with the elders, and even now, still active in the congregation, he just attends, gives talks, etc., but refuses any kind of position of oversight. So I admire him for drawing that line and not getting sucked into something he totally doesn't believe in.

I was glad to develop the idea that the WTS was being used by Jehovah for the preaching work and they were helpful to your relationship with Jehovah, but not indispensible.

Best wishes to you. When I was exploring abuse issues, I was glad they were there, every single day, to give support. I was just amazed at how some were able to stop drinking, period. Some have been sober like 10-12 years or more! And they still go to AA to help others. So seeing others do this, can help another's resolve.

LS

29

Reform on blood issue?!?!

by Wishididntknow in

not sure of the validity of this but i thought i would put out there.... danny hazard seems like a loose cannon...but...your thoughts?.

associated jehovah's witnesses for reform on blood are announcing the beginning of the end of the jehovah's witness blood doctrine.. since 2000 the watchtower society was forced to change their semantics on how they handle punishing its members for taking blood transfusions to save their lives.the european court of human rights negotiated this change when the country of bulgaria refused to acknowledge the watchtower society as a religion, due to the fact that the watchtower punished its members for accepting needed medical procedures to save their own, or their children's lives with blood transfusions.. but ajwrb has been tracking the development of these changes, and we have searched for any actual occurrences of a jw (who wants to stay a jw) getting disassociated for taking a blood transfusion.we have not found a one.

in the past we have not been able to get watchtower service dept.

Larsinger58

Deciding to refuse any kind of medical treatment I support. For whatever reason. What irks some out there, though, in the medical field especially, is the WTS rules about using your own blood (autologous transfusion)! That is, you can't extract your own blood while on iron pills and save it for yourself for a future operation in which you know you will benefit from the extra blood. I can't think of any valid reason for that. The WTS claims if the blood leaves your body then it belongs to God and you can re-transfuse it.

Ironically, they ignore the fact that the Bible clearly says if you're with an unbeliever to eat whatever you want. Not eating has to do with weak consciences and so the command to "abstain" from blood was in the context of the congregation, which was heavily Jewish. It was out of respect for them that a general rule was made to "abstain." But as clear from other scriptures, if you're buying meat in the meat market, you are to make no inquiry about it, or as noted, if you're in the home of an unbliever, then chow down all you want to since no weak consciences are a factor. Certainly the WTS is not so profoundly stupid not to realize if you can eat blood in the home of an unbeliever that forbidding the eating of blood is no sin for the mature Christian.

It's a simple of matter of seeing that in one place it says "abstain" and in another place eat all you want. But what is the context for this apparent contradiction? The context is in what company you are in while eating. If you're eating with other Christians then abstain since they might have a sensitive conscience and emotions based on years of abstaining. But away from that setting there is no restriction at all. In fact, the Bible says that "nothing" you take into your body can defile you; only what comes out of the mouth which is out of the heart.

So the WTS is just wrong and I hate to see all the suffering. So glad I'm out.

LS

56

"You will be objects of hatred "a reasonable understanding

by luap in

indeed thats just what witnesses are.

everyone hates them.

is there any other group in "christendom "that are hated as much as these.?

Larsinger58

Hi luap. Nice article.

Ummmmm, at a lost to do anything else and out of respect for your interpretation, and just to be brief for a change, I'm just going to tell you how I interpret this specific passage.

Since "and then the end will come" follows after this, I believe this is primarily fulfilled by the Jews. That is, Christ was saying the Jews would be hated in all the nations and following that, the "end" would come. Here, the "end of the system of things" in a Jew's mind would be domination by gentiles and exile. On November 30, 1947 the "end of the system of things" of exile and gentile domination ended. Prior to this, antisemitism lead to the Holocaust. It has been historically noted and even I believe stated by Hitler himself that if the Jews were not generally hated by so many, what he did wouldn't have been so easy.

But JWs, as well, were a target of "Gog of Magog" and experienced the Christian side of the "grea tribulation." So I will note in passing that all this "hatred" came to a head during WWII just before the "end of the gentile times" occurred in 1947 and that's the specific fulfillment of that. JWs along with the Jews were specific targets the the Nazis who fulfill being "Gog of Magog" (i.e. white descendants of Magog who focus on idolizing their whiteness).

So the Jews are the primary fulfillment of this.

The other thing is the historical context. Surely as the Christian faith grew and grew in the early times in the 1st and 2nd Century, Christians were indeed the object of hatred and blamed for things they didn't do, like burning Rome, etc. We all know about Christians dying in the arena by lions. So that is fulfilled.

That brings up whether or not JWs are a primary target of hatred now in fulfillment of that prpohecy. If some debate they really are not hated, but as Mrs. Jones said, just ignored or tolerated, then it would not mean the prophecy did not go unfulfilled, which I believe the primary fulfillment was pre "end of the system of things", that is, pre-1947. That's the context here, the hatred toward Jews and JWs in the time period say from 1914-1947.

That's all I'll offer. I just wanted to share where I'm at as far as including the Jews in this fulfillment, who I consider primary for this reference.

Christians were certainly hated by pagan nations up until the time of Constantine when he corrupted pure worship with paganism at which point, Christianity became the national religion and thus became very popular. After this, a turn of the table occurred and Christians became the terrorists in the world, burning people at the stake and gaining secular power and riches in the world (i.e. Crusades, etc.) So, it's a technical point if Christians are "hated" post Constantine times. But is that hate justified? Any who were targets of the Crusades would be justified in hating Christianity, I would think.

Certainly JWs are persecuted and banned in some countries. Even the WTS president and others were jailed for a while. That's hatred. But JF Rutherford put out the "7th volume" which had some strong pro-German political claimes. That's why they were thrown in jail. They later removed those pages from that abominable book. By the time of JF Rutherford, the WTS was nearly completely corrupted. Even Germany persecuted and locked up the JWs, not because of being Christian, but because they were thought to be spies of the Jewish underground. And why was that? Well when Russell first started out, he did not collect any donations. Why? Because of wealthy backing. But where did this wealthy backing come from? From the "Illuminati Jews" in B'nai B'rith. Thus the Jews chose CT Russell to promote "Zionism" and paid him generously to do so. So why shouldn't Hitler suspect JWs for being a cover organization for underground Jewish Illuminati?

So that's the other issue I would raise. Was the persecution of the WTS warranted?

The Bible clearly notes at 2 Thess. 4:2 that the "man of lawlessness" would rise up in Jehovah's own temple, his own organization, and lord himself other other "gods." The gods or "glorious ones" are the public anointed ones within the WTS. So this is a total catch-22. If JWs want to claim they are "Jehovah's chosen organization", which they are from 1886-1996, then the have to face the reality that the MOL ends up in charge of that organization just before Armageddon, meaning the GB of JWs would become apostate.

So there's the issue of whether or not Jesus Christ at ths point, especially post 1996 when the covenants with the Jews and JWs officially ends, is still considering them his own people. Or has Christ taken out the true "little flock" and abandoned the organization as prophesied?

So again, my view is that the prophecy was critically fulfilled from 1914-1947, and primarily by the Jews and tokenly by JWs, climazing in both being targets of the Nazis in WWII.

The command: "Get out of her MY PEOPLE" confirms that near the end the WTS would be part of BTG. One travels down the broad road for the majority of the journey, but then at one point, you must leave the broad road and go down the narrow path. This is where the "wise virgins" separate from the "foolish virgins."

So post 1996, neither JWs nor the Jews are considered his "holy people." Now the "144,000" that is the actual sealed elect are the temple now. Everything foreshadowed this, when Christ would return and install them in the kingdom, once he became king.

So if they are objects of "hatred" by anyone, it likely due to their lawless ways. I know a lot of people hate them because of the blood issue! A false premise. I know a lot of hatred comes to them because of the shunning issue, because it breaks up families. Another false premise. I know there is a lot of resentment because of the false prophecies and their discouraging college education. But this is hatred from XJWs primarily.

So sorry! I think I'm mentally incapable of writing a short post. I'm ending this now. I think my general position and thoughts were covered.

Thanks for the article! And don't let anyone call you a "troll" or put you down. You're entitled to your own views without all this pontificating by disgruntled and neurotic XJWs!!! Express your views and have conviction for them. Don't let the dogmatic rudeness of some here discourage you.

Have a great day.

LS

16

Changed or Misprinted?

by iamwhoiam in

so..who here has examples of where the society printed something in a book or magazine...and then when a newer version of the book or bound volume came out...they changed what they wrote to cover up a mistake or to further a doctrinal change?.

Larsinger58

The WTS does not include "Babylon the Great Has Fallen, God's Kingdom Rules" book in the WT CD library!!

I find that rather interesting and humerous.

LS

8

The Bible's Buried Secrets

by thetrueone in

this television documentary has some very interesting information about the ancient civilization of.

i've seen when it aired a couple of years ago, so i thought i would post it .

up for the folks here to have a look.. you can watch it full screen by just clicking the video when its playing, which will take you directly to youtube.. there you can click the full screen icon and your good to go.. worthy to watch .

Larsinger58

Hi nicolaou,

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I haven't examined the archeology so I couldn't possibly pass a knowledgeable comment on it. However, I recognias bias when I read it.

Actually, at this point I usually take the higher road and just review the different theories. The fact is that scholars, experts in their fields, disagree with each other. It's not a big deal. The same evidence can be interpreted differently. There is lots of "flexibility" here. Case in point is Dame Kathleen Kenyon who dug up Jericho. She has a chapter in her book about the "Coming of the Israelites" and essentially assigns the destruction of LBA Jericho to the Israelites between 1350-1325 BCE. So that's an archaeological reference or an opinion that's out there. You need only note it. But that doesn't mean all other archaeologists agree with her.

I'm a chronologist and so date the Exodus to 1386 BCE and the fall of Jericho to 1346 BCE based on the the restoration of the Holy Land to the Jews on November 30, 1947. At this point, I merely observe that Kenyon's dating for the fall of Jericho match the 1947 jubilee dating timeline. It doesn't mean other timeline's do not exist. But in this case, "archaeology" does support the true Biblical timeline.

Same with C14 from that wall that is dated by Eliat Mazar to c. 925 BCE. Based on 1947 the rule of David would fall from 950-910 BCE, so per the Bible, combined with the C14 evidence, David would have indeed have built this wall.

But I can step back from being dogmatic about it and just observe the compability of this C14 reference with my own timeline assignments. So if you wish to consider this all relative and subjective, that's fine too. I'm just saying from my own perspective and Biblical chronology, archaeology is consistent in supporting my timeline, but not the popular timeline which dates David and Solomon some 54-60 years earlier than they should be.

Israel Finkelstein is a great archaeologist but he is not a chronologist. So basically I'm the one who has to tell the archaeologist what Bible chronology ooptions he must consider with the evidence.

Of course, Finkelstein is dishonest and inconsistent in application. He has the audacity to presume that Rameses II was the pharaoh of the Exodus, for instance. He then contrasts the archaeological dating from Hazor and Ai with that dating and confirms a conflict. Rameses II is said to have ended his reign in 1213 BCE. If that's the case, 1213 BCE would be the Exodus date and 480 years later would be the 4th of Solomon which would fall in 733 BCE. Thus the rule of Solomon would be from 737-697 BCE, and David's rule from 777-737 BCE. But we don't find Finkelstein comparing that timeline for David and Solomon to the archaeology. Instead, he dates David and Solomon to 1010-970 and 970-930 BCE, respectively. This dating for David and Solomon belong to another timeline entirely, one that dates the Exodus to 1446 BCE as is based on the Assyrian eponym eclipse dated to 763 BCE.

So it boils down to his using one timeline to make critical archaeological dating comparisons for the Exodus and another timeline for David and Solomon, but he doesn't explain that. The average reader wouldn't really know about this inconsistency. So that's why he's ignored for the most part as a biased researcher; he's not consistent. He plays the anti-Biblical game where he gets the most leverage, distorting the Bible's history as he goes along. So he's incompetent or dishonest. I mean, if you're going to push Rameses II down our throats as the logical Exodus pharaoh, then fine, follow through and date the entire timeline based on that reference.

So, again, at this point, what you do is just discuss the various theories academically. There is more than one Biblical timeline to be compared with the archaeology, including the timeline developed by JWs! JWs, for instance, date the rule of David some 67 years earlier than do the secular historians. The WTS begin the rule of David in 1077 BCE vs 1010 BCE. So, for instance, if the C14 is showing the walls in question to be built c. 925 BCE, then neither of these timelines are a good match for David. Secular historians date the Exodus either in 1446 BCE or during the time of Rameses II. The WTS dates the Exodus in 1513 BCE. My timeline, based on 1947 dates the rule of David, as I noted, from 950-910 BCE and that dating does match the C14 evidence for David building that wall.

So as a result, quite subjectively, the science supports the Bible, not all those erroneous timelines. But, again, note this is just an academic review of the evidence versus various ideas about the chronology. Finkelstein is not a chronologist. He uses whatever Biblical timeline he wishes to to make negative comparisons. He is not an authority in Biblical chronology. I am. Even so, at the end of the day, when the Biblical timeline is correct, the C14 from the walls of the City of David and from the fall of LBA Jericho match the Bible's timeline perfectly. So I'm happy. If others think archaeologists are honest and unbiased then that's their problem. This is a perfect example of how easy it is to fool the masses who lack the background in the topic. The WTS does the very same thing. They make false statements and establish a false premise and then go from there.

Anyway, the Exodus occured in 1386 BCE and per the dating for the fall of Jericho, that is correct. The rule of David was from 950-910 BCE and C14 from the walls of his city dated c. 925 BCE prove he built those walls. So the Bible is true. But you'd never know it listening to anti-Biblical archaeologists discussing these topics, like Israel Finkelstein, et al.

LS

8

The Bible's Buried Secrets

by thetrueone in

this television documentary has some very interesting information about the ancient civilization of.

i've seen when it aired a couple of years ago, so i thought i would post it .

up for the folks here to have a look.. you can watch it full screen by just clicking the video when its playing, which will take you directly to youtube.. there you can click the full screen icon and your good to go.. worthy to watch .

Larsinger58

Thanks for posting this! The C14 dating for the wall of the palace of David dated c. 925 BC is consistent with the Biblical timeline that dates David during the same period and also dates the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE. That timeline uses the 709 BCE Assyrian solar eclipse to date everything from the Assyrian Period back to the Exodus. The current timeline uses the 763 BCE eclipse which forces David and Solomon to be dated 54 years too early. The C14 confirms this. So archaeology supports the true Biblical timeline but not the fake one.

Thanks, again, for posting the vids!

LS

10

Biblical definitions of marriage

by ParadiseCircus in

so marriage is currently the topic du jour in the tms and this meme's got me thinking about the bible and marriage:.

but when i bring this up with dubs they say that 'jehovah tolerated this so that the israelites could shore up the numbers; it wasn't necessarily sanctioned by him'.

can i get some help with a rebuttal?

Larsinger58

Adonai: Well I came on strong, didn't meant to be harsh :)

No wonder we get emotional, considering our roots..

Yes, it gets emotional. But I think it is too far along to correct anything. A few people will try to search for answers, more will just wait to see what happens.

Christ is said to be married. The church is his bride. Does that mean an intimate relationship? Sex? Spiritual sex? Isn't that what a marriage is for, a special intimacy? I don't think many think of Christ as having the equivalent of sex with his special chosen ones. The mind works in strange ways, twisting and blocking out what we don't want to face. Perhaps the reference is more that they are all "one body" like being "one flesh" as husband and wife are said to be.

Jus some more thoughts on topic: marriage.

LS