Posts by Larsinger58

51

Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff in

and please don't do so with the standard "i don't know the answer - but there surely must be one.

" or some other lame attempt to defend god/bible without a real explanation.. here goes:.

i find it incredibly interesting how hard the mind works to prevent rational thought when it suits it's purpose.

Larsinger58

The pharaoh of the Exodus: Amenhotep III, who died in the Red Sea. His son, Akhenaten, because of the 10 plagues converted to monotheism along with the entire nation of Israel, which is a textbook response to these miracles.

amenhotepIII

AMENHOTEP III - DIED IN THE RED SEA

akhenaten/nefertiti

AKHENATEN AND HIS WIFE, NEFERTITI, BECAME JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (MONOTHEISTS) AFTER THE 10 PLAGUES

Per archaeology, Jericho fell by Joshua between 1350-1325 BCE, remaining unbuilt for 400+ years. This means the Exodus must be dated as far as archaeology is concerned, between 1390-1365 BCE, placing it at the end of the rule of Amenhotep III and the beginning of the reign of Akhenaten. It was during the rule of Akhenaten that the entire nation of Egypt suddenly switched to monotheism, a direct result and confirmation of the 10 plagues occurring at this time.

The WTS incorrectly dates the Exodus in 1513 BCE, which is too early. Using the jubilee cycle, 1947 dates the 70th jubilee which means the Exodus would occur in 1386 BCE, fitting within the archaeological dating perfectly.

LS

51

Theists - Please Explain This.......

by AK - Jeff in

and please don't do so with the standard "i don't know the answer - but there surely must be one.

" or some other lame attempt to defend god/bible without a real explanation.. here goes:.

i find it incredibly interesting how hard the mind works to prevent rational thought when it suits it's purpose.

Larsinger58

the Exodus occurred at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III (who died in the Red Sea) and Akhenaten (Amenhotep IV) who immediately began to worship Yahweh as "Aten" the monotheistic god. The prompt switch to monotheism also was accompanied by the dismissal of the "worthless" gods of Egypt. So that 10-plague message came through loud and clear as far as competition between Yahweh and the false gods of Egypt.

As far as the cattle goes, the Egyptians were rich. The Amarna letters from this period say that gold in Egypt was like dust. So if someone killed off all my cattle and I was a rich man, I'd just go out and buy some more. That would explain the presence of Egyptian cattle to suffer the last of the ten plagues.

Here's my video for dating the Exodus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpkK6XoqRQo

LS

47

What Scriptural Support Is There For Believing in Second/Greater Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy?

by JWB in

what scriptural support is there for believing in second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy?.

this is a genuine equiry into where the idea of second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy originated.

does it have definite scriptural support or is it simply an extra-biblical religious device thought up to try to make prophecies appear relevant to the modern age?

Larsinger58

Offer your last respects to the deceased "1914 generation" doctrine! Join the wake!

Actually, the "1914 generation" doctrine is alive and well in the real world of the spiritual elect! That is, the idea that the second coming would occur along with all the signs during a generation of 80 years beginning with 1914 and thus prior to 1994.

That doctrine still works. The "great tribulation" that occurs before the 2nd coming was a major sign and that event was the Holocaust Also the new State of Israel was to reappear (i.e. the fig tree that begins to blossom) before the second coming, which did occur in 1948. The messiah must fulfill the concept of the "1335 days" and thus means the messiah was to appear again by 1992 since the 1290 days ends in 1947 when Jewish exile ended. 1992 is prior to 1994, so it was fulfilled!

So the specific "1914 generation" doctrine still works. What doesn't work for 1914 is the "second coming" occurring 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem, misdated by JWs to 607 BCE. The actual event occurs in 529 BCE dating the 2nd coming to the same year you get using 1947, which is 1992. So the "7 times" prophecy points to 1992 not 1914.

Also, 1914 is said to be the "end of the gentile times" by JWs. WRONG! The true "end of the gentile times" occurs on November 30, 1947 when the Jews officially come out of exile and regain their autonomous control over their promised land. So the EOGT actually occurs in 1947 and the 2nd coming in 1992, two events the WTS thinks should have occurred in 1914. However, the "last generation" begins with a world war, which was WWI (i.e. "nation vs. nation, kingdom vs. kingdom). That actual event marks the beginning of the signs that would not outlast a generation before Christ returns. They didn't. Christ returned on December 25, 1992. So the "1914 generation", that is, 80 years after 1914 (1914-1994) still is a correct interpretation of Jesus' words and it was fulfilled!

LS

12

When does the Lord "arrive"?

by Alfred in

(credit to therevealer for finding this and posting on another thread).

from watchtower march 15, 2010 page 27 "one flock, one shepherd":.

who should partake?.

Larsinger58

So what the f**k is the Watchtower trying to say here???

They are saying they don't know WTF they are talking about here. This is a critical point about the Memorial. Everybody knows when Christ arrives he ends that celebration. It is only to be kept until he arrives and then it ends once he arrives! Right? !!! So the celebration is technically invalid since 1914. That's #1.

#2 is that ALL of the anointed go to heaven at the same time. No one gets to heaven before anyone else. That's clear. The WTS doesn't understand this, thinking some are up in heaven right now and others are waiting to dye. How awkward as you clearly observe. So here's that scripture:

1 Thess 4:17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, TOGETHER with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

See that? All of them together go to heaven at the same time. No one preceeds the other. In fact, Paul specifically says that just before this in verse 15 "...those who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death."

So the WTS is f**king clueless in this regard, so what actually is the Bible teaching? Simply this:

The 1st resurrection occurs before the second coming occurs. All are resurrected first into physical bodies via living anointed ones. This makes the 1st resurrection invisible, but most importantly, in the flesh. Thus those resurrected are in the flesh along with those still alive when Christ arrives. They all then await Armageddon and then begin ruling in the earth for 1000 years. After that, Satan is let loose for a short while then cast into the lake of fire. After that, JUDGMENT DAY occurrs where all the rest of the dead, both righteous and unrighteous come to life to be judged.

Then, basically, after all their work is done on the earth, they then get transformed into spirit beings all at the same time.

Thus this is another example proving the current GB is now in total spiritual darkness and have been abadoned by Jehovah and Christ.

I know the idea that resurrected ones being "sown" into living bodies of other elect ones alive today is a very difficult concept. But 1 Corinthians 15 clearly stipulates this. The 2nd coming occurred in 1992 so the 1st resurrection has already taken place. Everybody is in the flesh now, including Christ himself. So that's how it works. Since passover of 1993 the Memorial officially ended. After the millennium and Judgment Day, all the elect (144,000 Jews and 1,296,000 gentiles; 1,440,000 total) will then be transformed together into their incorruptible, spiritual bodies.

This idea by the WTS that some are now up in heaven while others are awaiting their prize is just another false teaching by the f**king false prophet.

That's where we are now. All prophesied in advance and now a reality.

LS

47

What Scriptural Support Is There For Believing in Second/Greater Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy?

by JWB in

what scriptural support is there for believing in second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy?.

this is a genuine equiry into where the idea of second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy originated.

does it have definite scriptural support or is it simply an extra-biblical religious device thought up to try to make prophecies appear relevant to the modern age?

Larsinger58

Vanderhoven7: Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are parallel passages that deal with the same issues and follow the exact same sequence of events.

Not so. Luke does have some parallel references but it is the only one that includes the fall of Jerusalem which it dates "before" the final signs.

When the end is and the 2nd coming is not a mystery but has to fulfill specific Bible chronology. The 2nd coming occurs 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem which must be dated to 529 BCE if you want to follow the Bible's own timeline, or if you understand enough astronomy to recognize the cryptic reference to 511 BCE for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar II in the VAT4956. Either way they reflect the original timeline where Jerusalem falls in year 19, 529 BCE. Yoyu may need to research this further to gain confidence about it, but regardless the 2nd coming does not happen until our time. Even the erroneous dates of 607 BCE and 587 BCE project the 2nd coming in either 1914 or 1934, respectively.

Now some on casual reading might think the fall of Jerusalem mentioned in Luke would contradict the second coming during the 20th Century with all things being fulfilled in the 1st Century. So that is when we go and look very closely at look and note that after mentioning the "nation vs. nation, kingdom vs. kingdom" which is a reference to WWI in the end times, it says "now before these things" and goes on to describe the fall of Jerusalem. So there is no conflict. Luke dates the fall of Jerusalem BEFORE the signs of the last days. Now you need to ACCEPT his reality or give up trying to explain how this is fulfilled.

The great tribulation happens before the 2nd coming and it was the Holocaust/WWII. The 2nd coming occurred in December of 1992, when Christ reappears in a flishly body and rules in the midst of his enemies until his kingdom is set up in the earth.

Now think about this: Two chronology prophecies must converge on the same year. 1947 is the "end of the gentile times", the end of Jewish exile and thus the end of the 1290 days. That means the messiah must arrive in 1992 to fulfill the "1335 days." That normally would present a problem with ancient history since 1992 would date the fall of Jerusalem in 529 BCE. But Jehovah has provided us with the VAT4956 which dates year 37 of Neb-II to 511 BCE! That means year 19 falls in 529 BCE. Some coincidence? No. It's just that is what the original chronology was before the Persians revised the timeline to expand the rule of some of the Persian kings. So you have an ancient astronomical text (VAT4956) confirming the Bible's own timeline now, combined with a modern event which dates the 2nd coming the very same year!

So that's the reality.

Thanks for sharing.

LS

47

What Scriptural Support Is There For Believing in Second/Greater Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy?

by JWB in

what scriptural support is there for believing in second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy?.

this is a genuine equiry into where the idea of second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy originated.

does it have definite scriptural support or is it simply an extra-biblical religious device thought up to try to make prophecies appear relevant to the modern age?

Larsinger58

None of the comments so far have dealt with the direct question of the double fulfillment. For JWs the double fulfillment is generic to making the application of the Biblical formula found in Ezekiel about "a day for a year." So that means you have one fulfillment for a literal day and another for years.

In the case of the "7 times" for instance, where Nebuchadnezzar II would be off his throne for "7 times" or 2520 days. That amounts to seven literal years. When you apply the "day for a year formula" that means the presence of a physical representative king on the planet would be absent for 2520 years. So was that fulfilled? Yes.

If you use the true date for the fall of Jerusalem, which is 529 BCE, based on the VAT4956 dating year 37 to 511 BCE, then the 2nd coming should have occurred in 1992. The second coming must occur 45 years after the end of the 1290 days, which ends the "gentile times" which ended on November 30, 1947. If 1947 ends the 1290 days, then the messiah should arrive to fulfill the "1335 days" 45 years later, thus in 1992.

1290 + 45 = 1335

1947 + 45 = 1992

So you have coordination between the VAT4956 which dates year 19 to 529 BCE and the modern event of the end of the Jewish exile and the end of the 1290 days ending in 1947, both pointing to the second coming during the same year, 1992. Of course, I was an eyewitness to that event so I can confirm the date of the second coming to December 25-26, 1992.

As they say, "the proof is in the pudding" and so double fulfillments have occurred

At any rate the basic foundation of the double fulfillment application is squarely seated in the "day for a year" formula.

LS

47

What Scriptural Support Is There For Believing in Second/Greater Fulfillments of Bible Prophecy?

by JWB in

what scriptural support is there for believing in second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy?.

this is a genuine equiry into where the idea of second/greater fulfillments of bible prophecy originated.

does it have definite scriptural support or is it simply an extra-biblical religious device thought up to try to make prophecies appear relevant to the modern age?

Larsinger58

VANDERHOVEN: Luke clearly dates the destruction of Jerusalem before the signs of the times of the end. So you missed a critical reference. This one-time tribulation event, otherwise in the Bible, occurs in connection with end times and is a reference to the Holocaust. For first off, note that Luke never mentions Daniel or any "great tribulation"; those are only in Matthew and Mark ard are part of the signs of the "parousia" of Christ, meaning leading up to the second coming. Here is the verse in Luke which dates the fall of Jerusalem separately and before the signs of the last days:

After describing some of the same end-time events in verse 9-11, then Luke 12 clearly says, "But before all these things..." thus introducing some events that will occur before these end-time events. Included in those things that occur before, of course, is the fall of Jerusalem.

Now remember, chronology gives us the precise year of the second coming based on the fall of Jerusalem. There is confusion from the popular records regarding this period, but these records come from the Persian and later periods and thus are presumed from the beginning to be revisions. Even so, there is only an 82-year gap for the potential dates for the fall of Jerusalem, which are 607 BCE, 587 BCE and 529 BCE which gives us three choices, all in the 20th Century CE, which are 1914, 1934 and 1992. So in no way does the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE come close to when the end-time events must occur.

But all those dates being past events, the "great tribulation" should have occurred by now, right? After all, it must occur before the second coming! Matthew 24:29 says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days... the sign of the son of man will appear in heaven..." So what was that one-time event that happens to the Jews? It was the Holocaust, of course.

LS

6

What "day of the Lord" is Malachi 4:5 referring to?

by JWB in

what "day of the lord" is malachi 4:5 referring to?.

in another thread a poster pointed to isaiah 13:12-13, which got me thinking about the expression "the day of the lord".

this appears to have been a term used in the bible with reference to times of divine judgement.

Larsinger58

Daniel definitely links the "great tribulation" to the end times and clearly notes it is a one-time event, "that never happened before nor would happen again."

This is interesting because Luke 21:22 explains that the time period to which the gospel refers was marked as "days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled" (NWT).

The days for meting out justice as noted above is a reference to the Holocaust, when 2/3rds of the Jewish population in their resettled lands in Eastern Europe would be exterminated, and then a remnant of 1/3 would be restored to Israel (Zech 13:8)

OTOH, when "the Lord's day" is a reference to Jesus Christ's 2nd coming it indeed would be his entire "parousia" which began in 1874 and continues to this day. 1874 is when "Michael stands up" (Daniel 12:1) to begin the work of preparing for the 2nd coming.

LS

32

The tower of Babel- full of holes?

by highdose in

i was thinking the other day about the tower of babel ( like you do) somthing that always puzzled me about reading the account in our modern day times is that we have today buildings that would have been vastly taller than the tower of babel.

even if purely because the materials needed to build modern sky scrapers have to be light in order to acheive that height.

accient heavy bricks just wouldn't have done it.. just why was god so threatened by a building???

Larsinger58

This literally happened. Babylon is an actual place--check with your favorite archaeologist on that or go to the library.

In the interim, let's look at the big picture here. 1/3 of the angels who see God directly didn't like his policies. God is okay with that. He created all creatures including angels with a mortality limit. Like the flowers that grow up and blossom and then die, so likewise the lifespan of all creatures can be controlled by God. This gives all the chance to choose if they like this God or not and if not, he will allow them not to extend their limited lifespan. But for those who like this god and are okay with his policies he extends them eternal life. I think the fact that God will not insist that anyone life unhappily forever is a loving thing. Letting their life expectancy expire is the best thing for them, really. Then those actually interested in living in peace with their neighbors can enjoy eternity.

As far a Babel and its tower was concerned, it at some level interfered with God's overall plan for man to spread out and create nations and nationalities, etc. And forget about the peaceful, one-language concept here. Babylon was corrupt. Nimrod had already begun hunting humans for sport. So this was the beginning of an oppressive society like Nazi Germany, who if they had not been stopped likely would have killed off anybody in the world who wasn't Aryan. So it was that kind of a sick society that God interrupted. They were direct rebels and terrorists and opposed to God's policies so God stepped in and forced them to do as he intended, which is the right of a "god", is it not? When the clay starts to tell the molder how it wants to be molded then the clay learns a lesson.

God gives all a short period of lifespan to basically discover themselves and make moral choices and ultimately test to see if they are eternity material. Everyone doesn't fit that criteria. But for those who do, there is a wonderful future ahead for them.

LS

32

The tower of Babel- full of holes?

by highdose in

i was thinking the other day about the tower of babel ( like you do) somthing that always puzzled me about reading the account in our modern day times is that we have today buildings that would have been vastly taller than the tower of babel.

even if purely because the materials needed to build modern sky scrapers have to be light in order to acheive that height.

accient heavy bricks just wouldn't have done it.. just why was god so threatened by a building???

Larsinger58

This literally happened. Babylon is an actual place--check with your favorite archaeologist on that or go to the library.

In the interim, let's look at the big picture here. 1/3 of the angels who see God directly didn't like his policies. God is okay with that. He created all creatures including angels with a mortality limit. Like the flowers that grow up and blossom and then die, so likewise the lifespan of all creatures can be controlled by God. This gives all the chance to choose if they like this God or not and if not, he will allow them not to extend their limited lifespan. But for those who like this god and are okay with his policies he extends them eternal life. I think the fact that God will not insist that anyone life unhappily forever is a loving thing. Letting their life expectancy expire is the best thing for them, really. Then those actually interested in living in peace with their neighbors can enjoy eternity.

As far a Babel and its tower was concerned, it at some level interfered with God's overall plan for man to spread out and create nations and nationalities, etc. And forget about the peaceful, one-language concept here. Babylon was corrupt. Nimrod had already begun hunting humans for sport. So this was the beginning of an oppressive society like Nazi Germany, who if they had not been stopped likely would have killed off anybody in the world who wasn't Aryan. So it was that kind of a sick society that God interrupted. They were direct rebels and terrorists and opposed to God's policies so God stepped in and forced them to do as he intended, which is the right of a "god", is it not? When the clay starts to tell the molder how it wants to be molded then the clay learns a lesson.

God gives all a short period of lifespan to basically discover themselves and make moral choices and ultimately test to see if they are eternity material. Everyone doesn't fit that criteria. But for those who do, there is a wonderful future ahead for them.

LS