Posts by Larsinger58

80

Weird Pic in Awake - Jesus Looks Very Pleased About Something.

by cofty in

a new member of the jws forum has posted this scan of a picture in the french edition the april 2011 awake.. i have never believed the subversive wt artist stories but this one is funny.. .

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Larsinger58

OMG. I can't believe they are still up to that cryptic art stuff. This is no accident! It's how Freemasons communicate--via artwork. The eric phallus is a common hidden image in Freemasonry artwork.

As far as how the artwork is developed, I understand that they stage the scene using costumes and live actors, then photograph that, and then convert that to a painted image. So at least the face of this Jesus is likely one of the brothers who modeled for it. The erect penis image was something embellished. Hidden images, some very negative, are found in the WTS' publications.

Sometimes it is clear the cryptic message is deliberate. For instance. another image from the "Revelation" book on page 52 shows Jesus Christ dashing the nations to pieces as if they were pottery. It shows many angels accompanying him all of whom have iron rods. But Jesus' rod is made out of wood! Now that is a specific detail that the artist had to have been told to include. The Bible clearly says Jesus strikes the nations with an iron rod. Why did they go out of the way to make his rod wood, but all the other angels have rods of iron? It's the third image appearing at this website:

http://www.watchtowerlies.com/watchtowerlies_019.htm

So this erection by Jesus is deliberate and part of the secret cult activity of the WTS, which invited secret societies into the organization from the very beginning, including their symbolisms on the covers of the magazines and books, including the Templars cross and crown and the winged sun disk, clearly directly linked with paganism and the Mysteries.

Even the symbol of the organization itself, the watchtower, is linked with Artemis, the pagan mother goddess, who in turn is directly linked to Satanism.

So this is generic for the underground WTS, which placed a seeing-eye pyramid at the gravesite of CT Russell! The same image we see on the dollar bill. Even so, the average person just can't deal with the nature of this mysticism. Many deny there is any kind of a "conspiracy theory" going on, simply because it is too challenging. We see the secret images all the time but can't believe someone like the WTS would engage in something like that. The watchtower was an architectural form of a goddess in ancient times.

The obelisk and other phallic symbols are extensively represented in Freemasonry.

All I can say is, there are lots and lots of sites that talk extensvely of the occult Freemasonry behind the scenes in the world. It is very much developed. Half the people are going to dismiss this and the other half maybe believe some of it. But one thing is for sure. CT Russell as part of the "illuminati" family bloodline and JWs keep coming up as being connected or sometimes a prominent part of what people believe about the "Illuminati" and Freemasonry! I think that's significant that the WTS is right in the middle of all this, whether it is hype or not. This makes the WTS part of Babylon the Great, which is connected to all this mysterious Freemasonry stuff.

LS

11

Ecclesiastes 1:4

by therevealer in

was a scripture referenced on jeopardy to-night.

not exactly supporting the over-lapping generation is it..

Larsinger58

The last generation concept is very generic. Christ gives certain signs that would accompany his 2nd coming which would occur during the end times. Daniels mentions tne "end times" so the Christians understood this would be far in the future.

If we understand that generation beginning with a major world conflict, that is, WWI in 1914, then we are promised that within a generation of that war, that is, 80 years from 1914, the messiah would appear and all the signs would take place.

The 1914-1994 generation works if you're looking for the correct things. Armageddon is not included in those signs though. Armageddon occurs a short time after the 2nd coming takes place. Per Bible chronology and actual events, the 2nd coming took place in 1992-1993 and that is before the end of the generation of 1914-1994. So while the WTS and others might have the incorrect interpretation and expectations, it does not mean Jesus' prophecy was not fulfilled. It was.

The GB is now in a God-imposed spiritual darkness, so there will not be much truth coming out of the WTS now. This is the period of Joel's prophecy where inspiration is given by God in a lot of different places and where holy spirit is poured out on many. They have the light, they are light shining stars in the heavens, each with a bit of light. One must search for them to get the new light of understanding.

LS

11

Ecclesiastes 1:4

by therevealer in

was a scripture referenced on jeopardy to-night.

not exactly supporting the over-lapping generation is it..

Larsinger58

Thanks, Ann. how sweet of you to include my quote. I just noticed it didn't post. Sometimes cut and pasting can be tricky. Here's the quote I intended to include:

... Additional ancient testimony. One of the chief external evidences against the canonicity of the Apocrypha is the fact that none of the Christian Bible writers quoted from these books. While this of itself is not conclusive, inasmuch as their writings are also lacking in quotations from a few books recognized as canonical, such as Esther, Ecclesiastes, and The Song of Solomon, yet the fact that not one of the writings of the Apocrypha is quoted even once is certainly significant.

LS

17

'Observing' or 'Commemorating' the Memorial

by The Searcher in

Larsinger58

HI MOSHE

I may call them up again and ask them why they are a day early for their festivities- the night of Passover is on Nisan 15.

Sorry, Moshe, but you are technically incorrect. The Jews left Egypt the very night they celebrated passover, but after midnight. Passover ends at midnight. The Jews leave on the 15th shortly after passover. But when the Jews left Egypt they followed Egyptian time and so the DATE changed from the 14th to the 15th at midnight.

So technically, the DAY of the 15th is when the festival occurs at the temple to celebrate the date the Jews left Egypt. But that sabbath day is calculated from evening to evening, so passover is actually celebrated on the evening of the 14th, which turns into the 15th at midnight. So passover is eaten not on the 15th but the 14th.

I haven't checked a Jewish calendar but when they show Passover occurring on the 15th, they celebrate it the night before on the 14th. Just like they note that Saturday is the sabbath, they begin the sabbath on Friday after sundown.

Now some modern tradition begin the 15th of Nisan after sundown and so the concept is that passover is eaten on the 15th, which might be your reference. That is, if the Jews left on the 15th that night and the date changes at sunset, then obviously passover must be eaten on the 15th. That wouild be true, IF you change the date when the sabbath begins at sunset. But if you don't change the date until midnight, like the early Israelites, then passover is eaten on the 14th.

The first day of unfermented cakes, which is the day the Israelites leave Egypt begins on the 14th in the evening. (Ex. 12:18)

LS

70

If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver in

this is my first post here.

i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

Larsinger58

thetrueone:

Ok nice to meet you Messiah or I mean my lord and savior Jesus Christ !

I was just wondering what Mental Health Institute are you staying at right now ? I would like to personally meet you.

ROFL!! Now that's the normal, typical reaction. But maybe you should go beyond what most religions expect or the WTS teaches regarding the second coming! Most have a superficial view of what is supposed to occur, and even fewer deal with chronology, which at least the WTS does! So before you dismiss me as the true messiah, you need to consider some things. (I'll be right back, the nurse is bringing in my meds!)

Okay. Did you know that the Jews always understood there were to be two messiahs? One who comes through the line of David/Judah, but the other one through the line of Joseph? That's right! So that alone is problematic. That alone proves that Christ must return in the flesh again.

Now add that to the context of this clearly messianic representation by high-priest Joshua who is becoming a king at Zech 3.

3: Now as for Joshua, he happened to be clothed in befouled garments and standing before the angel. 4 Then he answered and said to those standing before him: "Remove the befouled garments from upon him." And he went on to say to him: "See, I have caused your error to pass away from upon you, and there is a clothing of you with robes of state."

5

At that I said: "Let them put a clean turban upon his head." And they proceeded to put the clean turban upon his head and to clothe him with garments; and the angel of Jehovah was standing by. "

Now, I'm going to be blunt because I can afford to and it takes too much time to explain. The first coming is about the sacrifice. The second coming is when Christ returns as a king-priest. So note the context here: you have a priext becoming a king. So this is about the second coming. But note this is a sinful person with befouled garments. He gets new garments and is forgiven is past sins. So this is problematic since we know Christ to be sinless. But turns out, that is only for the first coming! Christ must be a sinless sacrifice for the first coming to be a sacrifice. So he has to be born with no human father. Still, he must be born in connection with a descendant of Adam. But that sacrifice was good for all time. Plus, he can't use that sinless body anymore since it was given up in sacrifice. So for the second coming he becomes flesh again through one of his adult followers. This person happens to have lived the life of the prodigal son. Thus we see high-priest Joshua appearing with befouled garments, representing his past sinful life of immorality. This is the same scene of the prodigal son who returns and is given new robes! That's the KEY. Joshua is the prodigal son who is now returning.

Now notice that the "angel of Jehovah" is standing by. Huh? If Joshua represents Jesus Christ, then how is it that he is also standing next to himself? Well what is really happening is the Scriptures are telling us that Jesus as the "angel of Jehovah" is standing by because he is getting ready to jump into the body of Joshua! That is,Joshua represents the "pre-messiah", the person into whose body Christ dwells at the second coming. He just happened to have lived the immoral life of the prodigal son but returned just in time to be chosen as the physical manifestation of the messiah at the 2nd coming. But you see, he's an imperfect man.

So #1, if you are not looking for a physical second coming of Christ in the body of an imperfect person, then you are not looking for the right messiah. So I just happened to be that person. I grew up in the truth and was very zealous but being gay and transgendered threw me a loop. I was confused over that and, no excuse, ended up leaving the truth and exploring my sexuality. That included an immoral life, which I'm not proud of. I was out of the truth for a long time (c'mon, you said you wanted to talk! These meds make me type fast! ) Then I finally figured out I was never going to work out my homosexuality and that being in the truth and celibate was a better deal for me--if God would accept me back. So I returned to the truth actively after the Memorial of 1992.

That same summer I began to understand a lot more things in the Bible and eventually became one of the "anointed." I thought I had a special role as a prophet since I saw many false teachings by the WTS. I thought I was being pursued by agents of Satan who were trying to kill me, but secret anointed ones were arranging for me to escape to a private location so I could continue my research. This entailed at one point jumping into a dumpster where an exchange with another person would take place and then I would escape from there is a camper. But turns out there was no one else in that dumpster except me. I was instructed by holy spirit to get comfortable and then I must have fallen asleep. I was transferred by spirit into heaven and witnessed the "battle in heaven" which was really a court trail to see if Satan was worthy of death or not. Satan was condemned primarily because regardless of his disappointments with Jehovah's rule, there was no excuse for murdering lots of innocent people. If Satan was unhappy, he should have just committed suicide and made his statement of disdain that way. But killing billions of innocent people was just vengeful. So Satan was condemned at the trial. But by this time I was suspicious of who I was. It seemed I was the center of a lot of this and thus not simply a prophet. When I asked where was Jesus Christ, his spirit suddenly dropped down into my body! After that, I had a personal interview with Jehovah himself. I was the messiah.

The next day in the afternoon, there were images in the clouds. An infant lying on a cloud next to an eagle. Out of heaven came a voice that said: "This is my son, whom I have approved." Just like before.

But then, I realized that the parable of the prodigal son was actually about me and my trials with and failures dealing with my homosexuality. It was about me leaving the truth for a long time and in the process leading an immoral, sexually active lifestyle before returning to the "truth." So it was real.

So what YOU have to deal with, is deciding whether or not the parable of the prodigal son is linked with high-priest Joshua, both of whom get new robes. If you do link them together, then the messiah would be a person in the flesh and an ordinary man who lived the life of the prodigal son; that is, who left the truth temporarily living an immoral life for a while, and then upon his return, God making him the choice of the messiah. It's wierd, but it's Biblical.

I'm coming out now more since likely Armageddon will occur this year. I'm to be revealed soon so I'm providing some background and context for when I'm revealed. That is, many don't accept me based on the parables of the prodigal son or the rich man and Lazarus. They can't deal with the chronology of the 2nd coming occurring in 1992. They want a "sign" some miracle to prove I'm the messiah. So when that happens many will believe but it will be too late.

So, yup! Big surprise to me too that the messiah returns this way and that I'm actually that person. It is still hard for me to accept and believe, but it's all right there in the Bible, and it happened at the precise time it was supposed to and everything.

So I always note for people not to take my word that I'm the messiah if they don't want to. But if they are not looking for a black, ex-JW, ex-male prostitute messah in the flesh, then they are looking for the wrong messiah. Plus the "sign of the son of man" which appears to the elect represents the prodigal son messiah as a black man.

So as wierd and unexpected as this all is, this is how Jehovah set it up.

But you come at a great time. I'm about to be "revealed" now, as prophesied (it's been nearly 20 years since the 2nd coming in 1992) and so Armageddon is finally about to occur and you have a front-row seat!

Anyway, I may or may not be the messiah, but the messiah is supposed to be here in an imperfect body at the second coming. If you don't get that right then you are not following scripture.

Now remember, the five wise virgins get this right, but they don't give one drop to the foolish virgins! That is part of the problem for many since most don't trust themselves when it comes to the Bible. They need to get a consensus from others, from the group, before they can make any choices. Problem is, many you might know have clearly understood this and accept I'm the messiah, but they can't help there. They can't talk about it. The wise virgins can't share their oil. This is something YOU have to figure out on your own. You have to leave the broad road now leading off into destruction and strike out on your own down the cramped and narrow path. That is single file. You have to realize this on your OWN and set up your own relationship with Jehovah and Christ. If you need someone to hold your hand on this journey, you will be disappointed.

So don't exclude the possibility that everybody else in this room has figured out I'm the messiah, and we are all waiting on you, the last person, to realize it. You're looking around to see who else is buying it, but they can't let on they've bought it. This is one thing you must do on your own. The NARROW PATH is the way to life. I have many followers who are faking being active witnesses. But they can't let on that they know I'm the messiah! So do your own thinking.

So go with your own instincts and don't look for anyone else to agree with you here. The road at this point to life is private and individual.

I've given you enough information for you to begin to figure out who the messiah is, that is, if you even believe the Bible. Time is running out or has run out!

I'm actually the real deal, only it is not what is expected, but it IS what the Bible teaches.

So the ball is in your court. People claim to be too busy now to pay attention to this, but once the world is ending and Armageddon is starting, then suddenly all will have plenty of time to latch on to every word I say, but it will be too late.

LS

70

If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver in

this is my first post here.

i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

Larsinger58

Thetrueone: Since most religionists aren't well studied in human history, its not surprising that they would over look this bit of factual information.

Very good. You noticed. Very, very good. Two things:

1) Even if there were several events in the past that could qualify as a "world war", 1914 was one of those choices. That brings up the critical next point:

2) Many of these events that must occur during the last generation have occurred before. So what Christ was presenting was a supplement to what would occur before his second coming. This is where CHRONOLOGY comes in. You see, to fulfill everything, you have to combine these signs and events with the chronology of the second coming. So it is not a matter of being confused over some of these wars or world wars that might have happened before, but that event occurring close enough to the second coming date.

Now the chronology affecting this last generation, of course, includes at least four critical events.

1. The "great tribulation" where two-thirds of the Jews are exterminated (Zech 13:8) begins at the cut-off time of 62 weeks into the last 70th week of 490 years. We can easily calculate when the 70 weeks begin during our time by simply calculatikng down 490-year periods from 36 CE. 36 CE ends the 70th week of the first coming. Thus 4 x 490 = 1960 + 36 = 1996. 1996 ends the 70th week of the second coming, the 70th week being from 1989-1996. So based on that, the messiah, who arrives mid-week at the second coming (he arrives at the first of the week at the first coming) we know Christ would arrive in 1992-1993. But the "great tribulation" which would see the end of two-thirds of the Jews would occur betwen 1940-1947. The 70 weeks ending in 1996 begin in 1506. 62 weeks is 434 years, so 1506 + 434 = 1940. The length of the great tribulation, which days were cut short, was to last 7 years and thus from 1940-1947. Indeed, the Holocaust did exterminate two-thirds of the Jews. The "great tribuilation" was thus the Holocaust and WWII which ended in 1945. But the Bible says unless the days were cut short, "no flesh would be saved", that is, the flesh of the holy ones, the Jews, who by late 1944 had already been two-thirds exterminated.

This is a critical reference, though, because the Bible describes it as a one-time event. A tribulation that was so shocking that it never happened before nor would happen again. That's easily applied to the Holocaust which was quite unique. But again, the chronology requires this to be fulfilled between 1940-1947.

The other prophec involved requires all these events to occur within a generation of a world war. So just based on the unique event of the Holocaust, WWI would qualify as beginning that generation.

Also unique during the last generation that would see the second coming is the establishment of the State of Israel. The Bible refers to his as the budding of the fig tree, after which the messiah would be "near at the doors." So the Jews would not come out of exile until the "great tribulation" occurred and that event occurred on November 30, 1947, with the "Partition Agreement" from the UN giving the Jews their own country again. The State of Israel was set up shortly after in 1948. So that's another unique event that would identify the correct "last generation."

So even for very studious histsorical students like yourself, there is a lot required to line up to identify the true "last generation" which must begin with a world war and before ending see the second coming. WWI fits this application since it creates the 1914-1994 generatio and the second coming occurred in 1992. So that's why you have CHRONOLOGY. Chronology combined with the signs identify the correct time. Again those things include:

1. The messiah does not arrive before the State of Israel is set up, and thus not before 1948.

2. The messiah does not arrive until after the "great tribulation" -- Matt. 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days... the sign of the son of man would appear." That great tribulation was the Holocaust/WWII. The reestablishment of the State of Israel follows this great tribulation.

3. The "end of the gentile times", when the Jews officially come out of exile, which occurred on November 30, 1947 is also the end of the 1290 days! This is when Jehovah begins to bless the Jews and reestablish them in their homeland. This has occurred. The State of Israel is great modern nation. But that means to fulfill the "1335 days" which is the date of the second coming, the 2nd coming must occur in 1992!

1290+45=1335

1947+45=1992

This fits an event occurring before the end of the generation ending in 1994.

4. The two messiahs, first and second coming, must fulfill the 70th week, thus we already know based on the end of the first 70 weeks ending in 36 CE that the second coming 70th week would end in 1996. Thus Christ must appear to fulfill the 70th week sometime between 1989-1996. Since that includes 1992, you have harmony.

5. Of course, there is the issue of the "7 times" which inserts 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem to the 2nd coming. I won't debate what the true date for the fall of Jerusalem is because of the secular push to date that event in 587/586 BCE or the WTS' failed effort to date that event to 607 BCE. I'll just note that the VAT4956 has two references in it, in lines 3 and 14, which both match the lunar cycle of 511 BCE. Presumed to be a cryptic reference the original timeline for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar II, that reference independently dates the 19th of Neb-II to 529 BCE as an optional date to consider as the fall of Jerusalem. If you go with that application, it would confirm that 568 BCE is a spurious date for year 37 of Neb-II. But of curious note, once you get to the point that this is the best reference to the original timeline, when dating year 19 of Neb-II to 529 BCE, funny to me you get 1992 as the date for the second coming, a date we are stuck with based on 1947.

So no problem harmonizing all those prophecies, even if you use secular historical references from ancient astronomy.

So when all is said and done, sure there are a lot of choices, but at this point it should be clear that 1992 is the only option to fulfill both the chronology and the events that identifies the last generation of the second coming.

But having noted that, if 1992 was the date the messiah was supposed to appear, then WHERE IS HE?

Well, as the WTS has pointed out, Christ arrives rather secretly to most of the world who appears after his return as a "thief in the night." That means the majority of the world finds out about his arrival long after the fact. But did the Christ truly return in 1992?

YUP! I'm right here. I became the messiah on December 25, 1992.

So the Bible and its prophecies are TRUE. The WTS and others misinterpreting the Bible or who cling to erroneous revised history will get confused and get it wrong. But there is little excuse now. Nobody accepts 607 BCE, but revising history was common. 539 BCE is also the wrong date for the fall of Babylon. The Bible asserts 455 BCE must date the 1st of Cyrus. When that occurs, 70 years of exile dates the last deportation in 525 BCE, year 23 of Neb-II. Jerusalem falls 4 years earlier in year 19, thus in 529 BCE. Funny to me that means the second coming occurs in 1992, the same date you get for 45 years after 1947, the end of Jewish exile from their homeland.

Some, I believe, love darkness and confusion. It gives them some freedom. Once the light is on and there is little choice, people don't like it, especially when they are arriving late or too late for it to matter. That's the situation here. Armageddon is here now. It's time to face our Maker.

LS

70

If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver in

this is my first post here.

i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

Larsinger58

Welcome to the board!

1914 is a complex topic. That's because while it clearly does not work in terms of 607 BCE and the 2520-year prophecy, it still must begin the "last generation" which begins with a world war.

The first sign of the last generation given was "nation vs. nation and kingdom vs. kingdom" which is a reference to a world conflict, that is, a war involving several nations. That was WWI and that is when we must begin the last generation of 80 years: 1914-1994. Per Christ's promise, all the signs were to occur within this generation, including the second coming. So 1914 is a legitimate date for beginning the "last generation", regardless.

But you are correct about 607 BCE and its link to 1914--that's a failure But it is a contextual failure anyway. Clearly, the Bible presents the second coming as occurring at the very end of that generation, not at the beginning. So the second coming was wrong to be placed at the beginning of that last generation in the first place. If you follow scripture, the second coming occurs even after the "great tribulation" and after the State of Israel is set up (represented by the budding of the fig tree). So 1914 never worked for the second coming.

But what the WTS would face if it dismisses 607 BCE, is the dating of the second coming in 1992. Why so? Because the original dating for the 1st of Cyrus is 455 BCE. Add 70 years of exile to that and you get 525 BCE as the "last deportation" date in year 23 of Neb-II. That means year 19, the fall of Jerusalem, per the Bible and the corrected timeline is dated to 529 BCE which in turn dates the 2nd coming to 1992.

In other words, there is the issue of the "70 weeks" prophecy being fulfilled in 455 BCE in the 1st of Cyrus bs. 587 BCE following secular chronology for the fall of Jerusalem. There has always been that contradiction between the Bible and secular history. Martin Anstey in his "Romance of Bible Chronology" noted long ago that per the Bible 455 BCE should date the 1st of Cyrus and in which case, apparently there is an 82-year discrepancy between the Bible's dating and secular dating. He put that out in 1913. Well now, with the advent of the internet and much available research, it is easy to dismiss the extra fake 82 years from the Persian Period and correct the timeline so that 455 BCE dates the 1st of Cyrus. This is where the WTS would have to go for credibililty.

BUT, they are clearly adamant about maintaining the false 607 BCE chronology. That is apparent by their most recent rementioning of 607 BCE in an article about the dating of the fall of Jerusalem!! So they are going into the opposite direction. They even had the audacity to try and mention the VAT4956 in which there are some references they feel match 588 BCE better than 568 BCE!!! But that is a huge joke! Of note, they boldly pointed out that Line 3 of that text which recorded the position of the moon 1 cubit in front of "sigma Leonis" on the 9th of Nisan is a match folr 588 BCE. The text is dated to 568 BCE generally, except for Lines 3 and 14, which don't match. Unfortunately, it does turn out that using the common astro program that on the 9th of Nisan in 588 BCE the moon, indeed, is about 1 cubit in front of "beta Virginis." So they think in their own minds this helps to confirm that year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar might have originally been in 588 BCE. The WTS thinks the fall of Jerusalem occurs 20 years earlier than the common timeline, thus 588 vs 568 BCE. This is based on the misguided trust in Rolf Furuli's desperate rescue of 607 BCE in the context of the astronomical texts out there. Problem is, the WTS must not have done their usual thorough research since Line 3 has been reassigned to the star "sigma Leonis" rather than beta Virginis. That is, the translator, Hermann Hunger, admitted he made an error in that star assignment. Beta-Virginis in this text is called the "bright star behind the Lion's foot" and is a match for Lines 14 and 18. Hunger has admitted to the error and others have published on it, but Hunger did not officially correct his false statement for this text. Thus if you didn't know about the correction of Line 3 from "beta Virginis" to "sigma Leonis" then you would presume it was the correct star assignment. That is, Line 3 is a rerference not to beta-Virginis, but to the "Rear Foot of the Lion" (GIR ar sa UR-A), which is sigma-Leonis. Lines 14 and 18 are references references to beta-Virginis, which is called the "bright star at the end (behind) of the Lion's Foot" (MUL KUR sa TIL GIR UR-A).

Meaning? Meaning that the excitement of the WTS in finding this coincidental "match" for Line 3 is matched to the wrong star, a mistake that has been publically acknowledge by the translator, Herman Hunger. Thus it is not a match in the least. For even a coincidental match, Line 3 must be matched to sigma-Leonis as the "Rear Foot of the Lion" (which it is!) rather than beta-Virginis, as incorrectly noted in Hunger's original translation, which he later had to correct.

Now the WTS is good at finding their own evidence. I have to hand that to them. Some of it is legit--like the co-rulership between Darius I and Xerxes. That's legit, even though that co-rulership was just 4 years and not 10. Or, they found two texts dated to year 51 (vs. 41) of Artaxerxes I! That's amazing. Presumed to be errors or special calculation with the clear rule being just 41 years, it still works for them. They subtract 10 years from Xerxes and then add the tens years back to Artaxerxes which makes his rule 51 years rather than 41. But there is nothing you can do about those kinds of arguments. But Line 3 in the VAT4956 is different. The match to beta-Virginis is just a coincidental match to the wrong star, a correction that has been made by the translator. So everybody else knows that Line 3 should be a match for sigma-Leonis except the WTS!! They didn't do their research and now have egg in their face, thinking they have some spurious evidence supporting 588 BCE when it's just an embarrassing error.

But pertinent to your position that they are going to be forced to give up 607 BCE is actually just the opposite. They think they found some spurious evidence that makes 607 BCE seem legit via Line 3 of the VAT4956 and so they are running with it! But its a match to the wrong star!!

The only thing I think that might happen is that the academic world, or someone in the academic world will present evidence of the correct timeline and that will force the WTS to give up the "539 BCE" fall of Babylon pivotal date fixation. In a closer look, Line 3 of the VAT4956 will be seen as an erroneous miscalculation. Then they will be faced with explaining the significance of 1992 as the date of the second coming. But to the Bible's credit, if 1914 begins the last generation of 80 years that would see the second coming before 1994, that prophecy is still fuflilled for the elect. That is, 1992 and Passover of 1993 do occur prior to 1994! So there is nothing wrong with that prophecy and nothing wrong with 1914, as long as you use 1914 as the beginning of the last generation and not the date of the second coming.

Also, they use 1914 as the "end of the gentile times" which clearly occurred when the Jews ended their official exile on November 30, 1947.

So in conclusion:

1. 1914 is still a very good and obvious date to begin the last generation 1914-1994 since that event begins with a world war. So 1914 is still a good date for that and can't be dismissed.

2. It is a bad date for the fulfillment of the "7 times' prophecy, 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem, which must be corrected to 529 BCE to be accurate now.

3. It is a bad date for the "end of the gentile times" since the official date the Jews were restored to their homeland was November 30, 1947.

Even so, this has little to do with the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Just because the WTS got it wrong doesn't mean Jesus' prophecy was not fulfilled. So since the date for the fall of Jerusalem is corrected now to 529 BCE, that dates the 2nd coming in 1992, which is before the end of that generation ending in 1994. So all is well as far as the correct understanding and application which is now held by the elect. 1914 is a good date for the last generation. That can't change.

607 BCE has to be dumped, though, obviously.

LS

70

If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver in

this is my first post here.

i've been a lurker for awhile but had no particular desire to join until the other day.. anyways, do you think that if wt decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

in the short term the fds/gb might lose some authority, but they are hemorrhaging people anyways keeping it around (607 started me on the road to this place).. if wt stopped talking about 1914 for awhile then later killed it, blaming it on "further research" or something, and acknowledged some uncertainty in 607/587, i really doubt that very many of the r&f would think much about it.

Larsinger58

Welcome to the board!

The 1914 issue is complicated. That's because even though it is not connected to 607 BCE, it still is the first sign noted to begin the "last generation."

That is, the last generation that would see all these signs and the coming of the messiah begins with a world war! The first sign that begins that generation is "nation vs. nation and kingdom vs. kingdom." So without any chronology connected here, 1914 still must begin the 'last generation' since it is the year WWI occurred.

31

Does this not sound phony to you? Matthew 24

by Terry in

sometimes certain things are too familiar.

we've seen or read or heard them so often we've become "blind" to them.. .

matthew 24new international version (niv).

Larsinger58

By the time Matthew was written, the Olivet discourse no longer made sense as an answer to the original Markan question; revising the question that prompts the discourse justifies the latter. Another alteration is the timing of the universal events associated with Judgment Day. In the original Markan version, this was to occur "in those days"; now it is to occur "immediately after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29). The events are still imminent, but their apparent delay is accounted for. Finally, the author inserted into the synpotic apocalypse a series of parables all having to do with the theme of delay in the coming of the Son of Man (24:37-25:30). These parables are not found in Mark. This confirms the writer's aim in adapting the eschatological discourse to present circumstances.

This is commentary based on an opinion and perception I believe held commonly in academic circles. But it is irrelevant and nonsensical from the spiritual point of view, since the interpretation of the Biblical is a religious rather than academic exercise. In this case, in particular, not understanding the message of the gospels, many contradictions are perceived. But that's just cultural bias. This is no more than commenting on what is misunderstood. I'll give you an example of how ridiculous it gets.

You know how in modern Latin countries how many "Marys" there are. It's so common! Well in the Jewish culture, the name "Mary" was extensively given to daughters. This was so much so, that even within the small circle of women from Galilee that attended the domestic needs of Christ and his disciples there were lots of Marys, including three different Mary Magdalenes. Each seemed attached in some way, perhaps as a housekeeper, to three different households.

One was attached to the household of Peter and John. She was the first MM to come to the tomb alone and who saw Jesus in the garden. This was when it was still dark. The second MM to come to the tomb was attached to the household of "the Other Mary." They arrived to just view the tomb. They arrived as it was beginning to get light. They encountered Jesus on the road. The third MM came after sunrise with Jesus' mother and other family who brought spices for the body, so she seemed to be attached to the household of Jesus' mother or his mother's sister, Salome.

Now the gospels present three different times and scenarios for these three different Mary Magdalenes which should make it obvious there must be three different women. But our eve-so-bright Bible commentators have missed this entirely. They think this is just three different confused stories about thre same person. They are just as ignorant in this regard as they can be, and they think they are smart. So they find one error after another in the gospels based on their own incompetence which they transfer to this gospels.

So picking up the gospels and then misinterpreting them and then finding problems with that misinterpretation doesn't qualify as Biblical criciticism. It's not irrelevant and nonsensical, with nothing left to do but to shake your head and ignore it.

But it is not entirely their fault. If you are not CHOSEN to understand the scriptures, then God keeps you in darkness. So God has never intended for all and everyone to understand everything in the Bible. Many things are specifically to be understood by the elect and to have no meaning for outsiders.

But, of course, that's the conundrum here. What good is understanding the true meaning if you're not chosen? So what difference does it make if you have the wrong interpretation when having the correct interpretation wasn't going to do you any good anyway? It's like me giving you the winning lottery numbers for tonight's lottery but you're in jail and can't buy a ticket.

So, just to let you know, the elect are enjoying the harmony of the gospels and we just have to ignore those who are excluded from the correct "insight." Unfortunately, the WTS is among those who have been excluded from a lot of advanced understanding.

LS

11

Ecclesiastes 1:4

by therevealer in

was a scripture referenced on jeopardy to-night.

not exactly supporting the over-lapping generation is it..

Larsinger58

Ecclesiates, Song of Solomon and the Book of Esther are not inspired.

From "Insight Book"

Additional

Turns out those three books are not actually inspired, likely the basis for them being excluded from cross-quoting!

You know, just in case anyone gets serious about anything in Ecclesiates needing to make Biblical sense.

LS