Posts by Larsinger58

21

Quick and easy 607 question

by breakfast of champions in

really, this should be easy if you have the cd rom (i don't).. somewhere in the societies publications, they try to denigrate the reliability of an ancient tablet by citing a source which shows big gaps in the translation (lots of [] and .

's) evidently because this tablet was so beat up and broken, half the words are missing, thus secular historical records are worthless, trust the bible.. if i remember this correctly, the actual source of the quote goes on to say something to the effect of 'fortunately the obverse side of the tablet contains all the information in tact' - a fact the wt conveniently leaves out.. i had thought this quote was either from insight or the all scripture book, but i can't find it in either.

anyone know what publication this is from?

Larsinger58

BroMac: Such a shame then for the WT dis-info writers the THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of Buisness contracts/invoices/reciepts that have the Babylonian Kings Name/Day/Month/Year, who reigned when the transaction was processed. Such a shame for the WT that NO KINGS are MISSING and it is impossible to then have a 20yr gap to make 587 into 607. Clay is great!

LARS:

This argument is moot because the Bible's NB period is LONGER than in the current extant records which the WTS has shown are documents dated as much 2 centuries later. The Babylonian Chronicle self dates it's "copy" to year 22 of "Darius" (i.e. Darius II), which is during the Persian Period. Therefore, not one of the Babylonian rulerships or their business documents are challenged by the WTS! It is the MISSING years that are at issue.

Case in point, we have records for all 43 years of Nebuchadnezzar II, but the Bible says he ruled for 45 years. So 2 years are missing. It is easy thus to destroy the records for those extra years (2 years for Neb2, 16 years for Evil-Merodach, 2 years for Nabonidus and 6 years for Darius the Mede = 26 yearsl). Thus these surviving documents contradict nothing. But this would be a good argument for the Persian Period since that period was expanded by 82 years! So it would be important if you had thousands of documents confirming the extra years during this period, which is 30 extra years each for Darius I and Artaxerxes II for instance. But documentation is so scant, this period is called the "darkest period in human history."

But while "clay is great," stone is better. At the burial site of the Persian kings at Naqshi-Rustam, "Artaxerxes" follows Darius I, Artaxerxes being buried between Darius I and Darius II. This would support that the king who ruled after Darius I was "Artaxerxes" which is what the Bible calls the successor to Darius I and identifies as the king who completed the temple in the 6th year of Darius I. Thus per the Bible, Xerxes and Artaxerxes were the same king. Now later inscriptions claiming they were father and son might have been added, but the artwork and architecture reflect something different. At Persepolis, Darius I only completed one building though starting others with Xerxes while they were co-rulers. These other buildings had to be finished by Xerxes. A palace at Babylon only took two years to build. If that was the case for Darius' palace, then you have a confirmation that Darius I only ruled for about 6 years, since the business documents from Persepolis show the compound began to be built in the 4th year of Darius I.

In the meantime, the VAT4956 actually agrees with the "relative chronology" for the NB in the Bible, specifically, a 70-year period from year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar to the 1st of Cyrus. The Bible dates the 1st of Cyrus in 455 BCE and thus year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II, the year of the last deportation to 525 BCE. The VAT4956 dates year 37 of Neb2 to 511 BCE, representing the original dating. In that case, year 23 falls in 525 BCE, the same date as the Bible's dating when 455 BCE dates the 1st of Cyrus.

So while there is zero challenge or objection to the rule of Neb2 being at least 43 years, the challenge is to the WTS to produce any documentation for a longer NB Period. The VAT4956 indirectly does this since it dates year 23 to 525 BCE as the Bible does, which requires a 70-year interval in order to date the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE. Likewise, the SK400 dates year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar II to 541 BCE, giving you the exact same results.

So it is bordering on being disingenuous or confused to mention the surviving business documents in any context that might contradict the extra 20 years inserted by the WTS.

Also, some think since these tablets are dated that they contradict the WTS' "absolute chronology" in some way. They do not. The dates in these texts are only RELATIVE DATING, not ABSOLUTE DATING. It would be the same as me telling you that I graduated from high school in my 18th year. Does that tell you the year I graduated? No. You would only be able to know the precise year if you knew my birthdate or if some other absolute date, perhaps from an astronomical text, could be linked to some time during my life. For instance, if I recorded an eclipse of the Moon in the month of Adar in my 15th year, if you could identify that eclipse event, then you'd know the year of my birth and then you would know the year of my graduation. That's why astronomical texts are so critical to dating.

The VAT4956's overwhelming references are to 568 BCE, especially the planetary references. But two lunar references in Lines 3 and 14 don't match 568 BCE. They both do match 511 BCE, however, and they both record the position of the moon when it passes by either sigma-Leonis or beta-Virginis, which is very measureable as far as the lunar path; the moon passes close to and nearly parallel to these stars rather than at a diagonal trajectory. Thus there are multiple levels of suspicion these two references were deliberately inserted and thus are cryptic references to the original dating for year 37 of Neb2 in 511 BCE, in which case the VAT4956 confirms the Biblical timeline and dismisses as fake the current timeline. So it is not that no secular documents exist that would support the longer NB Period. The SK400 and VAT4956 confirm the original dating. But again, since the original NB Period was revised and reduced, none of the surviving business documents supporting a shorter NB Period would directly contradict anything the witnesses or others (like myself) are claiming. It makes a difference if the documents confirm a shorter disputed period or a longer disputed period.

25

I am confused by the "reserrection" doctrine. Who will be raised first Old testament people or people who die right before Armaggeddon?

by booker-t in

i have always wondered who will be raised first people such as noah, job, enoch, etc; or people who die right before armaggeddon?

if noah, job, are raised first would not they be terrified with all of the modern inventions they will see such as cars, airplanes, clothes, watches, tvs, radios, and all of the modern technologies.

also, if people lived to 900 years back then would not methusalan be shocked if a person raised tells him they were only 20 years old when they died?

Larsinger58

Per the Bible, those resurrected first will be those of the first resurrection, which is of those who will become king-priests with Jesus on the earth and rule for 1000 years. This has already taken place as the 1st resurrection occurs while Christ is still Michael the archangel in heaven and thus before he becomes flesh again in the body of the black prodigal son. This is consistent with my experience as I became aware of the new identities of two Bible characters, Daniel and the Apostle Peter, who had been resurrected and in new bodies/identities before I became the Christ.

As far as others being resurrected, there are no resurrections during the millennium as the WTS teaches. Read Revelation for yourself and the 2nd resurrection does not occur until after the millennium and after Satan has been cast into the lake of fire. The 2nd resurrection occurs during JUDGMENT DAY, which begins after Satan has been destroyed in the lake of fire. This is a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous and the judgments will be based on the moral choices they made during their previous life; thus books are said to be opened out of which they are judged. This so much in so many ways thus contradicts the concepts these people will be resurrected during the millennium, which the WTS has to insert out of chronological order.

Read 1 Cor 15 to see how the resurrection takes place. The 1st resurrection are like seeds sown into imperfect bodies, meaning the conscious memory of those who died are implanted into the minds of modern elect ones. This means there is instant orientation to the modern world including speaking a modern language and sharing all the knowledge of a modern person instantly. This also means the 1st resurrection is invisible -- but as I noted, it occurred prior to the 2nd coming, which occurred in late December of 1992.

As far as the ancient faithful men of old, like Enoch, Abraham, Daniel, Joseph, Moses and others, because the 1st resurrection is back in the flesh first, ancient ones resurrected get anointed for the first time after their resurrection. So while those who were still alive after Christ's death and after Pentecost could get anointed into the kingdom, attaining a higher greatness than even the greatest of the prophets, those ancient prophets will become part of the heavenly class upon being anointed after their resurrection. The only requirement for getting anointed into the heavenly class is that you are alive in the flesh after Pentecost. So those who died before Pentecost get into the kingdom retroactively upon their resurrection back into the flesh. Plus the issue of confusion and disorientation of someone ancient coming back into the modern world is completely eliminated since they are resurrected via a living anointed one and thus share their identity, language and education. So they adapt instantly to the modern world.

6

Freemason's & Mormon similarties.....

by Newly Enlightened in

i know there is some controversy whether or not c.t.

russell was a mason.

i won't go there.

Larsinger58

Occult Satanism has always been linked to white supremacy, something Mormons used to be known for as well.

11

Are end time prophecies actually happening?

by ablebodiedman in

.

thought this video about stuff happening in march was very profound:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=a2iwttdeoyu.

Larsinger58

Everything depends on interpretation and what you accept as being true.

For instance, the VAT4956 contains two references that match 511 BCE, which I believe is the attempt of the creators of this text to reflect to the original timeline for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar II. In that case, year 19 falls in 529 BCE which would date the 2nd coming in 1992. On December 25, 1992 I had a personal experience where I became the Christ. That is, Christ spiritually inhabited my body. But then when I went back to scripture, I found how my personal life as the "prodigal son" prophesied how I would become the messiah. I had gay and transgender issues and fell out of the truth and experimented with the gay lifestyle. I got disfellowshipped. Finally I returned to the truth around 1989, but didn't become active until Passover of 1992. But then I became one of the anointed that summer and to my surprise the Christ in December.

When I read the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, I interpret the rich man to be the GB of JWs. Lazarus outside his gate represents a disfellowshipped JW. He is cast out because he is unclean and has ulcers, representing his spiritual weaknesses and sins. But the dogs who are said to come and lick those wounds represent the nature of Lazarus and his sins. Dogs in the Bible are otherwise straight men who sodomize male prostitutes in ancient Israel. Thus if Lazarus is surrounded by this dogs who lick his wounds, it would mean Lazarus at some point is a male prostitute and thus likely also a cross-dresser. Well, that is precisely my life. I got arrested in Seattle (WA) for prostitution once. So this prophecy and others about a former male prostitute and XJW become the Christ helps to convince me my personal experience was real and that it fulfills end-time prophecies about the Christ's return, specifically in 1992!

The Bible also prophesied the nation of Israel would be set up just a little time before the messiah appears. The State of Israel was set up in the Spring of 1948, I was born in January of 1950. The Bible says that between 1940-1947 two-thirds of the Jews would be exterminated (Zech 13:8) and that occurred. The Bible prophesied that the Jews would come out of exile and be restored to their homeland to celebrate the 70th jubilee which occurs rrom 1947-1996 and that occurred precisely on time.

The Bible prophesied that those in charge of God's own house, his public temple, which is the WTS, would become apostate and we're seeing that right now.

The Bible said that the "sign of the son of man" would appear in heaven upon his arrival and that miracle has been occurring since my birth. Even the WTS is aware of it and depicts the image in the clouds in their Revelation book. The image is of a black infant's face with his eyes closed. That's the SOSM! I have a photo of it, taken seven years later on the same day and time of day that another sign appeared in the sky after I became the messiah.

So, yes, indeed, the end-time prophecies are being fulfilled, but only if you are reading and understanding what is supposed to happen.

REGARDING 'EARTHQUAKES": The Greek term translated as earthquakes can refer to any disturbance or "shaking" or "agitation" -- the word is seismo. In one place this word has to be translated as "tempest" when it is clear it cannot refer to an earthquake. The basis of this word as well can refer to social agitation such as a tulmult in a crowd. Since all the other references are to social or people-related signs, such as pestilence and food shortages, etc., I believe the "shaking" and "agitation" mentioned should not be translated as "earthquakes" but as social instability in one place after another, which was very much the case between 1914 leading into the Holocaust.

16

Bad argument

by goddidit in

in my quest to help jws wake up i came up with this (at least i think i came up with it myself, can't be sure).. i was hoping someone could help me refine it to be as easy as possible to understand and as hard as possible to weasel out of by some semantics.. just to be clear, i'm an atheist.

this is written for the context of jw beliefs.. .

premise 1: even if a position is true, it is possible for an argument in favour of it to be a bad argument, e.g.

Larsinger58

Christ was prophesied to appear in the flesh in the body of the prodigal son sometime in 1992-1993. That happened. I'm the Christ. I saw and spoke with God. So from my perspective, I'm not in a position any more to speculate whether the God of the Bible is real or not. He actually exists.

But my personal experience and personal contact with God is just that, personal and not transferable. Thus I believe in God because of direct manifestation but others continue to doubt based on the fact that God is not revealing himself this directly to them.

Thus atheism prospers because of the concept that God doesn't exist and isn't manifesting himself to others. But in fact, God could be manifesting to many others, but if they are sworn to secrecy, then the atheist will still presume God does not exist based on just his personal knowledge of the absence of God in the world at this time.

So in conclusion, I don't blame atheists for being atheists, but God has taken his elect out of that loop as far as linking evolution and other atheistic issues with whether God exists are not. We may not be able to explain around the evidence for evolution, but it doesn't matter because we have an independent confirmation of the existence of God, so it just doesn't affect our worship. We can table the questions to some other time. It doesn't challenge our faith at all which has been confirmed by God's direct interaction with us.

Plus, God doesn't seem that interested in trying to convert someone who had already made up their mind not to believe in God. In fact, he goes out of his way to make it even easier to believe there is no god!

ACTS 13:41 "Behold it, you scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in your days, a work that you will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to you in detail."

I'm fortunate to know for sure, I realize that.

32

More failed JW chronology

by Jeffro in

ive just been reviewing my timeline of the divided jewish monarchy and the neo-babylonian period.

i decided to check for correlations of egyptian and assyrian rulers mentioned in the bible that i had not previously considered at all (much less tried to make fit a particular year).

i was happy (though unsurprised) that no adjustments were required.. pharaoh tirhakah (taharqa) (2ki 19:8, 9; isa 37:8, 9) insight (volume 2, page 1109) claims the years assigned to him by historians must be wrong.

Larsinger58

mP:

How does a woman cut a mans head off especially given all his attendants being ever so close by ?

LARS:

Are we missing something here? Unless the king was into orgies or having sex in front of a lot of people, I would presume the woman was alone with him at some point in the inner chamber of the tent and then she escaped with the head from some un-guarded exit. Anyway, that is what the claim is. It explains why Xerxes was interested not in conquering Greece but on just destroying and exterminating the Athenians.

Apparently, though, this major blow by the Athenians was attributed to the goddess Athena for whom they erected a temple where the beheading of the king is depicted in the artwork. When Xerxes got to Athens, he destroyed all the temples and all the beautiful sculptures of Athens, something the Greeks were still angry about when they finally conquered Persia nearly 100 years later, that is, when they got to Persepolis, a monument to Persian art and architecture, they angrily burned it down.

32

More failed JW chronology

by Jeffro in

ive just been reviewing my timeline of the divided jewish monarchy and the neo-babylonian period.

i decided to check for correlations of egyptian and assyrian rulers mentioned in the bible that i had not previously considered at all (much less tried to make fit a particular year).

i was happy (though unsurprised) that no adjustments were required.. pharaoh tirhakah (taharqa) (2ki 19:8, 9; isa 37:8, 9) insight (volume 2, page 1109) claims the years assigned to him by historians must be wrong.

Larsinger58

JEFFRO: You have made no attempt to explain the inconsistenty in your delusional alternative history in regard to the 182.5 years from the fall of Israel until Cyrus' decree.

LARS: Per the Bible, the NB Period is 26 years too short and the Persian Period is 82 years too long.

Per your chart, you date the fall of Jereusalem in 587 BCE, which is 135 years after the fall of Israel. Josephus claims 70 years from the last deportation, and 75 years from the fall of Jerusalem when dated to year 18. If you add 75 years to 135 years you get 210 years. So the entire period from the captivity of the 10 tribes down to the 1st of Cyrus should be 210 years, not 182.5 years. Subtract 183 from 210 and you get a difference of 27 years. So the reference to the 182.5 years doesn't match the internal history of antiquities and may have been calculated and added later to reflect the revised timeline.

But this is nothing new. In "Against Apion" even though in 1.19 Josephus claims a 70-year desolation of Jerusalem, the length of the rule of Evil-Merodach is listed as 2 years. In Antiquities he lists the length of that rule as 18 years:

Antiquities 10.11.2 "When Evil-Mcrodach was dead, after a reign of eighteen years.."

This reference to the 18-year rule of Evil-Merodach confirms revisionism and confirms 16 years were removed from his rule. Per the Bible, we can establish the length of two Babylonian kings: Nebuchadnezzar II who ruled for 45 years rather than 43, giving us a 2-year reduction. Also, Darius the Mede who ruled for 6 years before Cyrus came to the throne. That gives us a reduction of 8 years. The 19-year rule of Nabonidus can be confirmed by comparisons, giving us 10 years. The NB Period in the by is 26 years too short. So if we subtract the 10 years from these previously mentioned kings, it leaves 16 years to be added to one or more of the other Babylonian kings. Since we have a historical source in Josephus of an 18-year by Evil-Merodach, that gives us the other reduction. This also proves Josephus knew quite well what the original NB timeline was.

So which is correct? You have a choice. But as a biblicist, we compare all these things to the Bible and the Bible requires a 70-year period from the last deportation, year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar II to the return. Based on the current timeline, this would be from 582 BCE to 538 BCE = 44 In my timeline it would be from 525 BCE to 455 BCE = 70 years. 70 minus 44 = 26 So per the Bible, the secular NB timeline is some 26 years too short.

OTHER INCIDENTAL CHART NOTES:

1. Seventy years of mourning over Gedeliah in the 5th month doesn't end until year 4 of Darius the Mede (Zech 7). But 70 years from the fall of Jerusalem ends in year 2 of Darius the Mede (Zech 1). This means the mourning for Gedeliah did not begin until 2 years after the fall of Jerusalem. The Jews would have began the mourning over him the first year after hearing about his death and thus this proves that the 7th month in which Gedeliah died was not just 2 months after the fall of Jerusalem, but a year and 2 months after. So anyone depicting Gedeliah dying the same year Jerusalem falls is misrepresenting the Bible's chronology. I don't think this detail will affect your timeline that much, but wanted you to look into it.

2. Note that Jehoiachin got deported on the very last day of the 8th year of Nebuchadnezzar II. That means Gedaliah began his governorship the next day, meaning the 1st day of year 9 of Nebuchadnezzar, representing an 8-year gap. 9 minus 1 = 8. In that case, the 11th year of Zedekiah should match the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar II, which it does! The Bible records the fall of Jerusalem in year 11 of Zedekiah and year 19 of Nebuchadnezzar II.

3. Also realize that it is Ezekiel that was deported in year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar II, and Jehoiachin at the end of the next year in year 8 of Nebuchadnezzar II. So the years of exile of Ezekiel are not the same as the years of exile of Jehoiachin. The 25th year of exile of Ezekiel would only be the 24th of Jehoiachin.

Please note, therefore, that the Bible contradicts the Babylonian Chronicle by 1 year! Per the Bible, Daniel would have been deported in year 3 of Jehoiakim and thus the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar II. Year 4 of Jehoiakim falls in year 1 of Nebuchadnezzar II. This is a 3-year difference. Jehoiakim's 11th year would thus be the 8th year of Nebuchadnezzar II. Thus the Bible uses the official Babylonian kingship years for the Babylonian kings. As noted above, the 1st year of Zedekiah would be the 9th year of Nebuchadnezzar II, both beginning their 1st and 9th years, respectively, at the beginning of Spring.

4. Note that there was a 6-year co-rulership between Rehoboam and Solomon. Shishak attacked Judah and Israel late in the reign and co-rulership of Solomon/Rehoboam. Jeroboam was still in exile at the time. Jeroboam was the friend of Shishak. If this took place after Jeroboam began his reign in the north, then Shishak would be attacking his own friend! But if year 5 of Rehoboam is only year 39 of Solomon, then Shishak was actually helping his friend, Jeroboam. This was by destroying the fortified cities in the northern kingdom so that Jeroboam would find it difficult to wage war in the north and reclaim the 10 tribes! So Shishak was not devastating the kingdom of his friend, Rehoboam, but disestablishing the stronghold of Jeroboam, who indeed, resisted at first the kingship of Jeroboam.

5. As far as Ahaziah of Judah "becoming king" in both the 11th and 12th years of Jehoram of Israel, note this does not represent a "Nisan-based" vs. "Tishri-based" rulership assignment, though that was a reasonable way to try to harmonize this reference. In actuality, when the Bible mentions a person "became king," it can either be a reference to their co-rulership or their sole rulership. That's why you have the mention of the same person becoming king twice, years apart. Case in point Jehoram of Israel. He becomes king once in the 18th of Jehoshaphat (2 Kings 3:1) and again in the 5th year of Jehoram of Judah!! (2 Kings 8:16). Jehoram of Judah, of course, did not become king until the 2nd year of Jehoram of Israel. That simply means that king Ahab also died in the 5th year of Jehoram of Judah, the time when Jehoram "became king" a second time, in his own 6th year, after a 6-year co-rulership (out of 12) with his father Ahab.

Once you recognize a double-dated kingship, you can then date the death of the previous king the year of the second kingship. Thus in the case of Ahaziah of Judah, he "became king" and co-ruler in the 11th year of Jehoram of Israel. Then his father died in year 12 of Jehoram of Israel when he became king again, this time as sole ruler, in the same year. This though all occurred within months of each other and within a 12 calendar months, thus he is accorded only a 1-year rule.

But, you'll appreciate this! You love secular references! The Moabite stone mentions the rebellion of Moab in the middle of the reign of the king of Israel. The Bible says Moab rebelled at the end of the reign of Ahab. Some believe this is a conflict. But in reality, the king of Israel in whose the middle of the reign this is in reference to is not Ahab, but Jehoram! This confirms that the Moabite Stone was written after the 12-year rule of Jehoram. Of course, six years is half of 12 years, so it was, indeed, in the middle or half-way through his reign that Moab rebelled. But clearly Jehoram was already "king of Israel" at the time. So there is no conflict between the Bible and the Moabite Stone record when you introduce a 6-year co-rulership between Ahab and his son, Jehoram of Israel. Isn't that amazing?!!!!

Even so, bottom line, the "Nisan-based" vs "Tishri-based" references in your chart are incorrect, or at least critically challenged, so you might want to consider the above.

But we both agree that the WTS scholars were clueless as far as figuring out the complicated co-ruleships!!! Even E. Thiele missed a couple, though! He missed the 6-year co-rulership between Ahab and Jehoroam as well as the 6-year co-rulership between Solomon and Rehoboam. No biggee.

Coming FULL CIRCLE now, though, Josephus understood this "became king" reference was a device by the OT to confound the chronology of the divided kingdom period, likely to prevent easy or tempting revisions. If something is confusing, it's not going to contradict anything. In the case of Josephus, he uses this confusing term, which is used in the OT to announce both the co-rulership year and the sole-rulership year, to cryptically tell us that the 50th year of exile/desolation began when Cyrus became king. (Against Apion 1.21) Previously he notes a 70-year desolation period. But the two references are not in conflict when you apply the 50-year desolation period to when Cyrus first became king over half of the Medo-Persian Empire, and the 70-year desolation ending when he became king over all of Medo-Persia after a 20-year rule. Thus both 50 years of desolation and 70 years of desolation end when Cyrus becomes king, only 20 years apart!

Even so, it is difficult to try to harmonize all those co-rulerships, etc. Even so, it doesn't critically affect Bible chronology or the Biblical timeline because of prophetic patterns, such as the 70 jubilees. Thus we know that 1947 begins the 70th jubilee. By this we can date the Exodus to 1386 BCE specifically, which is 19 jubilees prior to the return from Babylon. 19 jubilees is 931 years. 1386 - 931 = 455 BCE. Thus we know the 1st of Cyrus, which was a jubilee year, occurred in 455 BCE per the Bible per the jubilee cycle. The Exodus is the 1st jubilee, and 455 BCE the 19th, and 1947 the 69th. Note that 1947 is the 50th jubilee since the return in 455 BCE. 69-19=50th. Thus 1947, fulfills the 70th jubilee from the beginning of the 70 jubilees and the 50th from 455 BCE.

5 x 490 = 2450; 2450 - 1996 = 454 + 1 = 455 BCE.

Each 490 years of "seventy weeks" of 7 years is also 10 weeks of 49 years, or 10 jubilees per 490 years. Thus five 70-week periods represents 50 jubilees! 1947-1996 would be the 50th! Thus 1947-1996 fulfills both the 50th jubilee as well as the 70th jubilee!

2

144,000 Number Complete in First Century???

by bruh in

i was watching the history channel's "the bible" and the part about the apostles life after jesus, the scene where the ressurected jesus appears to peter and tells him to go to cornileus (gentile/non jew)- got me wondering if at that point is it possible that the 144,000 number was filled/completed???.

who knows???

especially since the new fds change, the 1935 gathering is now thrown out- wonder what to believe from the organization now- wouldnt you think !!

Larsinger58

The 144,000 are specifically 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes, which are sealed after Christ arrives at the second coming. These represent the root of the tree which is 1/10th of the entire tree (Isa 6:13). That means the gentiles in the kingdom are 1,296,000.

32

More failed JW chronology

by Jeffro in

ive just been reviewing my timeline of the divided jewish monarchy and the neo-babylonian period.

i decided to check for correlations of egyptian and assyrian rulers mentioned in the bible that i had not previously considered at all (much less tried to make fit a particular year).

i was happy (though unsurprised) that no adjustments were required.. pharaoh tirhakah (taharqa) (2ki 19:8, 9; isa 37:8, 9) insight (volume 2, page 1109) claims the years assigned to him by historians must be wrong.

Larsinger58

JEFFRO: Your interpretation of the 70 years mentioned by Zechariah as a period of exile is also wrong. This is also shown in the chart.

LARS: The VAT4956 corrects the NB timeline so your whole chart is wrong, academically. The VAT4956 proves the current timeline with the dates you are using was a revision by the Persians. So you're not living in the real world as far as absolute chronology. We're just discussing some interesting comparisons of your "relative" chronology.

As far as the 70 years, 2 Chronicles confirms 70 years of sabbath for the land, so if you want to contradict the Bible, be my guest. I can't take anyone seriously who is not honest with themselves. Josephus and the Bible are in complete agreement about the 70 years being linked to the last deportation, that is, the servitude for those specific 70 years begins with the last deportation. But in that case, the 70 years would not end until 74 years after the fall of Jerusalem. The 2nd year of "Darius" occurs in the 70th year after the fall of Jerusalem. The beginning of the mourning over Gedaliah begins 2 years later, which ends 70 years in year 4 of Darius. But the Jews are still in exile at this time. Of course, they should have been because the 70-years for the last deportees does not end until 74 years after the fall of Jerusalem, which means Darius the Mede ruled for a full 6 years before Cyrus took over.

Now, if you contradict me, I'm just going to laugh at you since this is directly supported by the Bible. In this case, I stand with JWs. Reading 2 Chronicles 36 clearly establishes a desolation of the land for 70 years. This contradicts the secular timeline and means the extant records, which are out of the Persian Period, not Neo-Babylonian Period, and that means the Persians revised the Babylonian records. Period. Fortunately, I don't have to prove or argue that point thanks to the VAT4956, which not only confirms the revisions but that 511 BCE was the original year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar II. This would date the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE as the Bible does, so truly, we are done here and you are totally out of your depth and out of date with your little chart.

But I don't want to discourage you. It is better to know a lot about the revised timeline than not to be interested in any ancient history at all. So I applaud your efforts and your hard work.

But do you want to know how much esoteric historical detail has been preserved and has come down to us? The Athenians killed Darius I in his sixth year while he was stopped at Marathon. Miltiades sent in a beautiful Athenian woman, maybe several whom Darius took to bed. Persia and Greece were not at war at the time. The woman killed Darius and then cut off his head. Next thing the Persians knew, they saw their king's head being paraded at the end of a pole held by the Athenians. This triggered the battle of Marathon. The king's head was never recovered. When Xerxes found out about this outrage, he vowed to exterminate the Athenians. That's why Xerxes destroyed Athenians during his invasion 10 years later and why the Athenians completely abaonded Athens. That's because they knew Xerxes was coming to exterminate and kill out of revenge, not negotiate. Now how do you think I know all that? It's because it has survived in the esoteric history!

So based on your superficial knowledge, you know very little about what really happened and this must be a desperation for you since I can see you are ignoring even the Bible's references or anything that disagrees with you. No biggee, I do the same thing!

32

More failed JW chronology

by Jeffro in

ive just been reviewing my timeline of the divided jewish monarchy and the neo-babylonian period.

i decided to check for correlations of egyptian and assyrian rulers mentioned in the bible that i had not previously considered at all (much less tried to make fit a particular year).

i was happy (though unsurprised) that no adjustments were required.. pharaoh tirhakah (taharqa) (2ki 19:8, 9; isa 37:8, 9) insight (volume 2, page 1109) claims the years assigned to him by historians must be wrong.

Larsinger58

In defense of JWs, all of their chronology is not completely FAILED. There are grains of truth in all their dates. That is, the concepts of those dates though with some misapplications, are still used and transferred to more reliable dates. Thus even 1847 and 1914 remain relevant. 1925 and 1975 are based on other chronology concepts the witnesses have developed and are aware of, so while the dates are not kept, the concepts are. Let me briefly explain.

1. 1874. This is not the date of the second coming, based on the "1335 days" prophecy. But the WTS was correct in applying this "1335 days" prophecy to the 2nd coming! Even so, 1874 does mark the time when "Michael stands up" (Daniel 1:1) and thus is a good date to begin the parousia. Also, it is a good date to begin the generation of Noah, that is, 120 years from 1874-1994. The "1335 days" prophecy is corrected when 1290 days ends in 1947 when the Jews come out of exile and back into God's favor after the Holocaust. In that case, the 2nd coming 45 years later is dated to 1992 per this "1335 days" prophecy. So we don't throw out 100% as being FAILED. Some of this is still inspired.

2. 1914. This is not a good date to end 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem because Jerusalem actually fell in 529 BCE. So the "7 times" prophecy is correct in that the 2nd coming does occur 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem. Dated from 529 BCE, which is confirmed by the secular text VAT4956, the 2nd coming must occur in 1992, same as #1. Also, 1914 does not end the "gentile times" which ended on November 30, 1947. But 1914 is still a good date to begin the a generation of 80 years that would see the 2nd coming! Again, the 2nd coming occurred in 1992 so that's before that generation ended in 1994. The last generation begins with a world war and ends 80 years later.

3. 1925. This is a failed prophecy, but based on the concept of 70 jubilees. The WTS at that time calculated 1925 based on 3500 years back to the time when Israel entered the promised land. (70 x 50 = 3500). Dating is way to off with bad application. But the recognition of these 70 jubilees with the fulfillment during the 70th jubilee does work. 1947 marks the beginning of the 70th jubilee, that is, 49 years from 1947-1996. The 7th week of the 70th jubilee is when the messiah was to arrive, which would be from 1989-1996, the 7th week of the jubilee. So 1925 wasn't relative to anything, but the concept of the 70th jubilee seeing the return of Christ is.

4. 1975. Another failed date. But the concept that the millennium is a sabbath of a greater period is still valid. From this we understand the 7 creative days were 7000 years long each! So we keep that. When we apply the correct timeline, though, 1975 is 127 years too early so we still have plenty of time before 6000 years of mankind's history runs out. This can be based comparisons of the WTS' date for the Exodus with that of popular secular timeline and the Bible. JWs date the Exodus in 1513 BCE, which is archaeologically contradicted. The Assyrian-based timeline where the Assyrian eponym eclipse is dated to 763 BCE dates the Exodus to 1446 BCE. If you use 1947 or the VAT4956 or correct the Assyrian eponym eclipse to 709 BCE, then you get 1386 BCE for the date of the Exodus. 1386 BCE is 60 years later than the secular date of 1446 BCE based on the wrong eclipse application, and it is 127 years later than the WTS' incorrect date of 1513 BCE. So concepts of 1975 are 127 years too early, with 6000 years of man's existence not occurring until 127 years later, etc.

See? So we learn the basics even though the chronology is not correct by the WTS.