Larsinger58

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Posts by Larsinger58

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  16

  Why believing JWs should want to be annointed

  by just n from bethel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you were a believing jw, especially born-in, you never really had the chance to determine if you had the heavenly or earthly hope.

  you were raised - or taught in bible/book study - that your hope was, unequivocally, to live forever on paradise earth.

  period.

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  Larsinger58

  OK. Guess I have to write a new post on it. But very astute observations, but incorrect.

  #1 ALL of the "other sheep" are invited into the anointed class if they wanted to be!!! That's the main point. God didn't discriminate against you just because of bad timing.

  Your reference here is the parable of the "vineyard workers." This parable confirms the two-class system that would exist within the WTS. That is that the first workers coming to work were told in advance they would get the "penny" which represented the heavenly hope. Workers from the third hour onward were not told in advance what they would get, BUT... when the work was done all the workers, starting with the last to thefirst got the same thing, the penny!

  Just a brief explanation for context: Now, a half hour is 42 months, 3.5 years. So an hour is 7 years. So the 11 hours of work is 77 years. 77 years of work from 1914 to 1991. The third hour workers start showing up after 21 years, thus in 1935!

  1914 + 21 = 1935

  As you very well know, it was in 1935 that the official earthly class was recognized officially within the organization.

  But, of course, lots of disappointments if you follow false Watchtower teachings too closely without following the Bible. If you followed the Bible closely, sometime after 1991, when holy spirit started calling the other sheep, you would have been "inspired" to understand this parable and understand that all the workers get invited in the end to go to heaven, and that the first-hour workers, the original anointed, are not told about this until the last minute, at which point they murmur against the later workers. Too bad. They still get their penny though. They were faithful in their work, but generally, they don't like it. Thus they end up being "last" in the kingdom. "The last shall b first and the first last."

  See?

  So a little underscore here. The emotional issue: THE "OTHER SHEEP" ALL GET INVITED TO BE ANOINTED AFTER 1991, THAT IS, IF THEY ARE ACTUALLY PAYING ATTENTION! THUS PROVING THEMSELVES WORTHY.

  In the meantime, another parable, the one about the "10 virgins", which is also about the anointed among JWs, shows that only half of them get into the kingdom! Only five are truly "wise virgins." The others miss out. So it gets complicated. Anyway, that's one false teaching out of the way. That means that after 1991 and until Armageddon actually begins if you think you feel like you're being called by holy spirit, then you probably are! So you have to understand to answer that call! Christ comes and knocks on the door. You're awake and hear the knock, but you've got to get up, turn off "American Idol" and answer the door and let him in!!!

  OKAY. So that is false teaching #1. But you need to know about a couple of other false presumptions.

  #2. Read the Bible! It clearly notes that no one goes to heaven ahead of any others. Allow me:

  1 Thessalonians 4: 15 " For this is what we tell YOU by the Lord's word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord."

  Meaning? Meaning ther is nobody up in heaven! Nobody goes to heaven until after the milllennium and after Judgment Day, which follows the millennium. When those of the first resurrection come back, they come back in physical bodies to rule with Christ on the earth for 1000 years and then are judges of mankind and the 12 tribes of Israel who come back in the second resurrection. Christ returns in the flesh at the second coming. He returnsa second time to be a human because there is a lot of work to be done to save others!

  So are you really sure you want to be of the anointed? There is a lot of self-sacrificing work to be done! 1000 years' worth right here on the earth with Jesus. Of course, you get your crown and heavenly reward after Judgmet Day, nothing for a human nor angel tops that. But still, there was a hint of some laziness, focussing on avoiding two tribulations and tests. You are halfway right about the tests, but the "elect" have their own test and they must be faithful until death. So as the Bible says, unless you are willing to let go of this life completely, you can't get it back in the kingdom' reward. If you try to hold onto this life, then you will lose your life. So you might get out of those two general trials, on at Armgeddon and one after the millennium when Satan is let loose, but the testing with fire of the elect is the ultimate test. Are you one who can pass it? Many fail. The standards are quite high.

  FALLACY #3. Finally, just in passing, everybody is not going heaven. Everybody can't be a king-priest. Who will they serve? Who will they be a king over? So that is one thing the WTS has half right. The number is limited. But the 144,000 represent just the "root" of the kingdom. The root are the remnant of natural Jews, 12K from each tribe who get into the kingdom. Therefore, being just 1/10th, the entire number is really 1,440,000! Your "for anointed only" reference is Isaia 6:13

  " 13 And there will still be in it a tenth, and it must again become something for burning down, like a big tree and like a massive tree in which, when there is a cutting down [of them], there is a stump; a holy seed will be the stump of it.”

  Basically, the kingdom is represented by a tree. Gentiles are wild olive branches grafted in where the natural Israelite branches were cut off. 90% of the seats were lost to the gentiles, but a remnant, 1/10th, was left remaining to fulfill Abraham's covenant and those are the 144,000.

  A FINAL TEST! Do you really and truly want to be of the anointed? If so, you cannot be one of the "foolish virgins." You have to be a wise virgin and the wise virgin anointed ones are heavy into scripture and Bible prophecy and chronology! That is what the "extra oil" is. So the wise virgins know that Christ must return in 1992. They know he returns as the prodigal son and Lazarus. That's how Jehovah has set it up. So they know I'm the true messiah. So in the end, you have to accept Christ in this body and with identity. A gay black male and ex-drag-queen. If you can't do that, you will self reject. Of course, it is just a disguise, like Jesus disguised himself so many times after his resurrection so that his disciples didn't know him at first. But still, if you have a special hang-up with gays or blacks, then we have a prblem.

  THE MEMORIAL CONUNDRUM: Finally, of course, there's the memorial and as you noted, the issue of joining the "ever growing" number of anointed. Well, that number is supposed to increase until the 1,440,000 are all sealed. So that's a normal circumstance. Except, after Chirst returned in 1992, December 25th, and after he ate the last passover/Lord's Supper on April 6, 1993, there is no official need to eat the Lord's Supper any more. So the vast majority of anointed witnesses who are anointed in secret, don't partake. So there are a lot more "anointed" than the WTS thinks.

  So that's another issue. If you really are being "called" and are of the anointed, don't worry about partaking at the Kingdom Hall, because Christ has already returned in 1992. Further, obviously, there is certainly no need t be a witness at this point. In fact, I consider it a distinct disadvantage. Christ has "other sheep" besides the litte flock of "wise virgins" associated with the WTS. The WTS was "disfellowshipped" by Jehovah on November 10, 1992, 45 days before the 2nd coming.

  So if you are feeling like living on the earth forever doesn't quite cut it and heaven is what you long for, likely you are being "called" by holy spirit. But you have to understand that calling and ACCEPT. You have to get up and "open the door" as it were.

  So don't miss your calling! Even so, even though ALL are invited, all are not chosen. There IS an earthly class and the number going to heaven is limited to 1,440,000. And, of course, Christ is using my body this time around. Clearly Jehovah is making a statement and also has a sense of humor. But let's face it, if Jehovah was willing to ignore the fact that I was once a male prostitute and has made me the messiah, then I'm sure you'll have a good chance, right?

  But it is humbling. It is a very humbling thing to be called.

  Now, just as a little precaution here. Lots of "wise virgins" here know quite well I'm the messiah. But they can't say anyting. The wise virgins don't share their oil, that is, their understanding, with the foolish virgins. So don't look around thinking others need to validate what you will come to realize from the Bible. This is a "narrow and cramped road" kind of situation, not a broad road situation. The elect do not recognize the messiah publicly and to the world, nor are they seen by Satan.

  But you'd better hurry, May 21st is nearly here!

  LS
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  6

  Sheep and goats info needed!

  by fadinfast in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  an elderly lady/sister came to visit my wife the other day, she wasn't here so she got me instead.

  this sister [late 70s early 80s] is a born in, has a husband who was an elder for many years, but is very sick now, also a daughter who was horribly [wrongfully] d/f, even by their rules, and a granddaughter in a simular situation.. at the close of our 'little chat' she was saying, "where can i flee to".

  i told her that my wife and i had heeded the 'organizations own advice 'if you find your religion is lying, cheating or being deceitful or has bloodguilt, then flee from that religion'.

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  Larsinger58

  Very interesting, and sad. Of course, the explanation is still WRONG! The WTS was cast into "spiritual darkness" on November 10, 1992, so this is more evidence of that.

  But for the sake of anyone who actually wants to understand this correctly, I will explain.

  This separation of the sheep and goats, wheat and weeds, fine fish and worthless fish, all relate drectly to the WTS, which served as God's "temple in its right condition" from 1886 to 1996. But as the parable about the wheat and the weeds shows, early on before the organization started to grow, weeds were already present. The weeds sown by Satan was the infestation of Freemasonry into the organization. But as the Bible notes, in order to protect the wheat so as not to pluck it up by mistake, the decision was made to "let the wheat and weeds grow together until the harvest" when a clear distinction would be made between the fake tares (weeds) and the true wheat.

  The "harvest" is when Christ returns, of course, to make this separation and judgment. This parallels over to the parable of the sheep and goats. Thus the sheep and goats are those true Christians and false Christians within the WTS. The WTS is represented by the "10 virgins" as well, where 5 are wise and 5 are foolish, and when Christ arrives there is a split-up between the virgins.

  So basically, when Christ returns, he would separate the true Christian witnesses from the false and these true witnesses would become the "little flock" whom he then brings to "other sheep not of this fold." This represents Christ taking the coin from the evil slave who buried it in the sand, not even putting it into a bank to gain interest, and giving it to the slave that had a 10-fold increase. This reminds us that Christ sent out TEN SLAVES to do work, but one became the evil slave. That evil slave is the current apostate WTS. But Christ has been gathering his sheep and anointed ones in several others places, secretive places, even though the "public" temple of anointed ones was the WTS. Note, of course, that the "man of lawlessness" rises up in God's own house to become a god over other gods. That is, the GB has made itself a god to the WTS and "mediator" by making itself God's own channel of communication, persecuting anyone who questions them. Point being, once you identify the public temple sect, you also identify the sect of the "man of lawlessness" who is also the "evil slave" and the "false prophet."

  But getting back to understanding the sheep and goats. "Immediately after the great tribulation" which the WTS thinks is Arageddon, we find Christ arriving and then beginning to separate the sheep from the goats. This "great tribulation" is not Armageddon! Further it is OVER before Christ arrives. The WTS wants us to think it is still in progress when the separation work begins! The Bible says "immediately after the tribulation of those days..." After means after. Further, how is it that at Armageddon anybody can flee into the mountains and save themselves, and women with small children will be disadvantaged? Nobody can flee from God's wrath to any mountains! Plus, this great tribulation apparently kills off the majority of the "holy ones." That's because, it says if the days were not cut short, "no flesh would be saved." Huh? The days of the tribulation are cut short to save a small remnant of the "holy ones", the majority of which would be killed during this great tribulation. Does that sound like Armageddon? No. God's "holy ones" at Armageddon will be spared.

  So very fundamental to understanding the parable of the sheep and the goats is understanding this "great tribulation" is aimed at the "holy ones" and these "holy ones" are the Jews and JWs. That is, the Nazi focus was on Jews and JWs, and the "great tribulation" was thus WWII and the Holocaust.

  After the tribuliation, the State of Israel would be set up and it is then that it is said that the messiah is "near at the doors." So Christ does not arrive until after the State of Israel (the fig tree) is set up.

  So sometime after 1948, when Christ arrives, quite privately, he comes first to God's own house, the WTS and begins to separate the sheep from the goats. When the sheep are separated out, the "little flock", the "five wise virgns" he then takes them out and brings them t "other sheep not of this fold" and then abandons the WTS and the apostate Man of Lawlessness, casting them into spiritual darkness.

  The WTS and everyone else will remain confused over this if you don't have the correct chronology, which dates the second coming in 1992, or if you don't realize the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24, which is completely over by the time Christ arrives, is a reference to the Holocaust.

  So the WTS still doesn't have the correct understanding, nor can they, because too many other concepts are wrong, including 1914 being the date of the 2nd coming. The separation by Christ of the "sheep and goats" is his separation within the WTS of those Bible-based wise virgins (wheat, sheep) versus the Watchtower-based foolish virgins (weeds, goats).

  Christ arrived on December 25, 1992.
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  6

  sabbath & jubilee years

  by the-illuminator81 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was just wondering but could not remember any clear account in the bible that the jubilee years (50) or sabbath years (7) were really practiced by the israelites.

  is this true?

  i can't remember any account of lands being returned and slaves being freed etc.

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  Larsinger58

  @the-illuminator81 The indication that this was a jubilee year for 2 Kings 19: is that theywould not plant for two years in a row. A normal sabbath year would just be one year's rest, but this is two.

  This means that you have to harmonize the 16th of Hezekiah with the return from Babylon. When the return occurs in 455 BCE, the 16th of Hezekiah must fall 4 jubilees earlier.
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  6

  sabbath & jubilee years

  by the-illuminator81 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was just wondering but could not remember any clear account in the bible that the jubilee years (50) or sabbath years (7) were really practiced by the israelites.

  is this true?

  i can't remember any account of lands being returned and slaves being freed etc.

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  Larsinger58

  The Israelites were poor at maintaining their sabbaths and jubilees. But there is a mention of Hezekiah keeping the jubilee year while under siege by Assyria. It falls in the 16th year of Hezekiah and is used to coordinate the ancient timeline.

  2 Kings 19:29 " And I shall indeed lead you back by the way by which you have come.”

  29 “‘And this will be the sign for you: There will be an eating this year of the growth from spilled kernels, and in the second year grain that shoots up of itself; but in the third year sow seed, you people, and reap and plant vineyards and eat their fruitage. 30 And those who escape of the house of Judah, those who are left, will certainly take root downward and produce fruitage upward."

  So there is some mention and acknowledgement of jublees.

  For JWs, of course, many don't realize the 1925 date for yet another end of the world is based on chronology calculations for the jubilees. JWs thought that a jubilee was 50 years instead of 49 years. That is, some think an extra year after 49 years is added, and some believe the first year of the next 49 is the true jubilee cycle. I believe in the latter.

  At any rate, based on some date they have since considered unsubstantiated for when the Israelites entered the land, they figured 3500 years later would be a spiritual jubilee. The year 3500 years later was 1925.

  But if you assign 49 years to the jubilee period, the 490 years or "70 weeks" gives you 10 jubilees. If you make a week of these 10-jubilee periods to get 70 jubilees and begin the final jubilee, the 70th jubilee, on November 30, 1947, which is when the Jews came out of offiial exile during our time, very much a jubilee theme of freedom from bondage and restoration of pastoral lands, then you can calculate any major event relating to a jubilee in the ancient past. Case in point the Exodus in 1386 BCE and the jubilee-year return from Babylon in 455 BCE.
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  14

  When Jesus said THIS...that pesky little word..

  by doubtful in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  due to haste, i don't have time to cite texts, but perhaps others can do that for me, assuming i don't get a chance to do later on this evening.

  but jesus, when asked about his second coming and of the conclusion of the system of things, he listed a series of portents as we all know, which concluded with multiple celestial phenomena, which according to him, were to be visible to all, just like lighting from one end of the sky to the other.

  he then said that "this generation", referring to his generation of that time, would by no means pass away?

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  Larsinger58

• He said some of his disciples then living would by no means taste death, indicating that the rapture would take place in the 1st century.

OR

It meant that some from the 1st Century would live over 1900 years to our time.

The latter is correct. I've seen Mary, Paul and John, all still alive.

Apparently the Templars discovered John still alive and maintaining lots of genealogy records. Apparently John and a congregation of others including Paul and Mary were discovered living under the temple when the templars dug there, likely looking for hidden treasure. They reported back to the Vatican who then employed them to secure John and the others along with those records. By then John had vanished. So they undertook the quest to find him. This fostered the concept of the search for the "holy grail" and sang-real, or holy blood line. The distorted public propaganda is that they were looking for descendants of Mary Magdalene whom Jesus had married. But Mary was just a substitute for John, the person they were really looking for and who was a relative of Jesus who carried the same royal lood line.

The other thing is chronology. Many focus on the "signs" that would happen at the time of Jesus' unique return. The only sign that was unique was the "great tribulation," the nature of which was unlike anything that happened before nor would happen again. This was a reference to the Holocaust. But the other signs could be seen throughout the centuries. Thus it it not just the signs that would mark this time, but the signs in conjunction with the CHRONOLOGY. Bible chronology dates the 2nd coming 2520 years or "7 times" after the fall of Jerusalem and the removal of the earthly king. When Jesus returned as king then the "7 times" would end. The only little problem here is the revisionism of ancient history s that you have confusion over the date for the fall of Jerusalem. Even so, the primary choices are all during the 20th Century. Based on 607 BCE, 587 BCE or 529 BCE, the 2nd coming occurs in 1914, 1934 or 1992. Of course, since we know that the State of Israel must be set up again before Christ arrives, 1914 and 1934 do not match the criteria for the date of the 2nd coming, but 1992 does.

But who out there has enough faith to believe Paul, John and Mary and others are still alive from the 1st Century? Very few, even though the Bible teaches this. So only the elect really will appreciate this and some get to interact with them. I got to see them because of my unique position of being the physical representation of Christ, but the fact remains that this is what the Bible teaches.

As long as one person from the 1st Century was still alive in 1992, that statement about "this generation" not passing away until he returned is true. Even so, clearly, this understanding was meant for the elect since very few have the faith to believe this, even though they pretend to believe the Bible and think Jesus has the power to resurrect from the dead. Then why doesn't he have the power to keep someone alive if he wishes?

So there is no need to argue to try to convince anyone, only note this fulfillment:

ACTS 13:41 ‘Behold it, YOU scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in YOUR days, a work that YOU will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to YOU in detail.’"

ciao