Larsinger58

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Posts by Larsinger58

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  18

  Ezekiel 4:6 A Day for a year

  by donny in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when the folks who try to discern the end times often using different formulas to calculate the number of days but nearly all of them then "translate" the days into years by using this quote from ezekiel.

  what is the logic used to assume this statement had anything to do with the "days" and "times" mentioned in other books?.

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  Larsinger58

  Lars, please share the joke with us.

  I know your mama told you that it's ill-mannered to poke fun at people.

  Syl

  What joke specifically? I'm thinking of a couple.
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  18

  Ezekiel 4:6 A Day for a year

  by donny in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when the folks who try to discern the end times often using different formulas to calculate the number of days but nearly all of them then "translate" the days into years by using this quote from ezekiel.

  what is the logic used to assume this statement had anything to do with the "days" and "times" mentioned in other books?.

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  Larsinger58

  PSacramento said: There is no reason that what is written in one book of the bible is DIRECTLY applicable to another book written by ANOTHER author about something else and referring to another event.

  
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  17

  Where can I find a biblical timeline?

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was wondering if there are any comprehensive timelines available, jw or otherwise?

  i am looking for a diagram that lists the biblical characters and events and the years they were born/died and occurred - all in a summary type format.. .

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  Larsinger58

  Ann O'Maly Everytime I see one of your posts I think about this scene in the Wizard of Oz:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IRe2HwMr2w

  teeheee!!!

  Listener: I really was't sure if my timeline would be helpful because I don't context anyone but the kings. But I am not quite sure what you're asking for, but it occurred to me you might not be aware of the WTS's timeline in the Aid to Bible Understanding which is a graphic timeline that follows the kingships during the time of ancient Israel and Judh, but also annotates which prophets were alive during the time as well. That is the closest example of a timeline that I know of that offers you the context of what was going on at the time. The Aid To Bible Understanding was replaced by the Insight on the Scriptures, Vols 1-2, but that wonderful timeline was not duplicated. If you can get a copy of the Aid book somewhere, or a scan of the timelime, then I think it would be close to what you are looking for.

  As a general comment on the timelines you will find out there, most will follow the secular timeline that dates the fall of Babylon in 539 BCE and the fall of Jerualem in 587/586 BCE. This timeline varies from the JW timeline in three primary ways:

  1) While JWs use 539 BCE to date the fall of Babylon, they follow 2 Chronicles 36 and Josephus in introducing a 70-year interval of desolation of Jerusalem prior to the 1st of Cyrus, except Josephus dates this 70-year period from the last deportation (year 23, Neb2) whereas the WTS dates the 70 years from year 18. Thus the WTS dates the fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE rather than 587 BCE. This is the first major variant between the WTS timeline and the secular timeline.

  2) The secular timeline uses Edwin R. Thiele's co-rulership chronology in his book, "The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings." Thiele died in 1986 but his book has been recently republished in paperback and is readily available at Amazon.com for only about $15 or used for $11. But it is also likely available from the library. This book will likely give you the details and discussions you might be looking for, so I recommend this book to you.

  http://www.amazon.com/Mysterious-Numbers-Hebrew-Kings/dp/082543825X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304000832&sr=1-1

  Of note, though, here again the WTS seeks its own direction for the period of the divided kingdom period and totally ignores Thiele's co-rulershis. Instead, they ignore all those co-rulerships and just end-to-end the timelime for the Judean Kings. I guess it got too complex for them. As a result, their Israelite kingships have several interregnums where there is no king ruling on the throne. I'm not judging, but I am laughing. The point is that the co-rulerships remove about 47 years from the timeline. So at the point of King David the WTS timeline has gained another 47 years and so is now 67 years earlier than the popular timeline. They match the "relative" chronology from that point back to the creation of Adam pretty consistently. For instance, the popular timeline dates the Exodus to 1446 BCE and the WTS dates it to 1513.

  1513 - 1446= 67 years

  3) Finally, the WTS dates the return from Babylon in 537 BCE consistent with the secular timeline, but when it gets to the reign of Xerxes and Artaxerxes, it diverges by inserting a 10-year co-rulership between Xerxes and Artaxerxes, thus moving the 20th of Artaxerxes up from 445 BCE back to 455 BCE. This 10-year divergence continues to the end of the reign of Artaxerxes I which the WTS ends in his 51st year, ratherthan in his 41st year per the popular secular timeline. But that means from that point on the WTS and the secular timeline are both in sync.

  If you consider the above, therefore, I think most timelines will reflect pretty much the same "relative" chonology, and the dates don't matter that much. It seems you were more fascinated by the relative chronology of who was ruling when at the time of certain prophets, etc.

  MY TIMELINE: My timeline follows Martin Anstey who in his "Romance of Bible Chronology" (available online) uses strict Biblical chronology to date the 1st of Cyrus 483 years prior to the baptism of Christ, thus dating that event c. 457-455 BCE. I then follow Josephus and the Bible in introducing 70 years back to the last deportation, year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar which is dated to 525 BCE. This means year 37 falls in 511 BCE which is confirmed by the VAT4956. The VAT4956 also dates year 37 of Neb2 to 568 BCE to reflect the revised timeline. From 455 BCE, I date the Exodus to 1386 BCE, which is 19 jubilees earlier.

  19 x 49 = 931

  931 + 455 = 1386 BCE

  From that date, I date the 4th of Solomon to 906 BCE, 480 years later. This now ha good compatibility with RC14 evidence which dates Shishak's invasion of Rehov City IV to c. 871 BCE which would fall in year 39 of Solomon. From here I use the Assyrian eponym solar eclipse dated to 709 BCE rather than 763 BCE, which is the date used by the secular timeline. The WTS totally ignores this eclipse event, basically dismissing the reliability of the entire Assyrian eponym. Of cours, using the 709 BCE eclipse to date the Assyrian Period gives me dates 54 years later than the secular timeline, but that is not an issue for the NB Period because of the VAT4956 which when dating year 37 to 511 BCE rather than 568 BCE, lowers the NB Period by 57 years, which thus covers the 54-year reduction in the NB Period.

  This means that by the 1st of Cyrus there is an apparent 82-year discrepancy (537 - 455 = 82), which was first noticed by Anstey. These extra 82 years are removed from both the Persian and Greek timelines so that by the 1st of Artaxerxes III my timeline is in sync with the secular timeline, dating his 1st year in 538 BCE. My timeline does vary a bit from the secular timeline as well in that I recognize two co-rulerships that Thiele missed;a 6-year co-rulership between Ahab and Jehoram and a 6-year co-rulership between Solomon and Rehoboam. I have a kingslist in text format if you want a copy of it. I can send it to you via e-mail if interested.

  Hope this was helpful. But basically some have pointed out, you're going to get a different timeline depending on who you follow. If you're interested in strict Biblical chronology, however, you will have to date the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE as does Martin Anstey. Oherwise, the "relative chronology" you'll find in many Biblical timelines should be fairly accurate as far as who was living when, etc.

  LS
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  17

  Where can I find a biblical timeline?

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was wondering if there are any comprehensive timelines available, jw or otherwise?

  i am looking for a diagram that lists the biblical characters and events and the years they were born/died and occurred - all in a summary type format.. .

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Larsinger58

  I was wondering if there are any comprehensive timelines available, JW or otherwise?

  Have you asked Larsinger?

  

  OK OK, just kidding!

  Hi Ann. Wow! An honorable mention? I'm so flattered!

  LS
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  14

  Was it ever explained how.......

  by Reality79 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ......god ignored the whole of mankind for 2,000 years and then suddenly decided in the late 1800s to give "da troof" to ole charlie boy?

  i was just looking at someone's parody jw channel and the person posed this very same question.

  i'll admit i've thought about it but not too deeply.. so, does anyone know why "true worship" didn't exist for all that time until god decided to grant russell special powers to determine truth?.

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  Larsinger58

  Thanks, SAB!! Great videos!!!

  LS
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  14

  Was it ever explained how.......

  by Reality79 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ......god ignored the whole of mankind for 2,000 years and then suddenly decided in the late 1800s to give "da troof" to ole charlie boy?

  i was just looking at someone's parody jw channel and the person posed this very same question.

  i'll admit i've thought about it but not too deeply.. so, does anyone know why "true worship" didn't exist for all that time until god decided to grant russell special powers to determine truth?.

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  Larsinger58

  ......

  God ignored the whole of mankind for 2,000 years and then suddenly decided in the late 1800s to give "da troof" to ole Charlie boy? I was just looking at someone's parody JW channel and the person posed this very same question. I'll admit I've thought about it but not too deeply.

  Good question. But actually the Bible itself says that for 2300 evenings and mornings there would be no true temple. The "temple in its right condition" follows 1150 years of no recognized "true religion" which becomes totally paganized and apostate via Catholicism. But by 1886, the true temple comes back into its "right condition" through the Bible Students/JWs.

  So the apostasy is actually documented in the Bible. Further, sacred secrets and understanding were reserved to be revealed during the end-times.

  LS
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  14

  Was it ever explained how.......

  by Reality79 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ......god ignored the whole of mankind for 2,000 years and then suddenly decided in the late 1800s to give "da troof" to ole charlie boy?

  i was just looking at someone's parody jw channel and the person posed this very same question.

  i'll admit i've thought about it but not too deeply.. so, does anyone know why "true worship" didn't exist for all that time until god decided to grant russell special powers to determine truth?.

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  Larsinger58

  Reader1:

  Two people live very similar lives. They were both raised as JWs, and both left. They lived relatively good lives, as most people do. One of them gets cancer, and the other one does not. Armageddon is brewing on the horizon. Ten minutes before the big A hits, the cancer finally kills one of them, and shortly afterward, the second one is killed in Armageddon.

  In the new order, the one that died of cancer gets a resurrection, while the Armageddon victim does not. All for just 10 minutes of time and a disease. Does this sound like justice to you?

  You are right. This doesn't make sense, but no problem because the Bible doesn't teach this. In fact it is totally ridiculous and non-Biblical. Pointers:

  1. The Bible clearly shows that things people do in this life will be accountable. Further we have examples of those who lived good lives who are already written down in the book of life.

  2. The context of Judgment Day, where the dead come back, both righteous and unrighteous are judged by their moral choices; that is, "books are opened" and they are judged out of the books. Clearly this is a reference to their past lives.

  3. Further, the resurrection of the dead, which is Judgment Day, occurs after Satan is destroyed and thus after the millennium. Thus there is going to be no one resurrected during the millennium! But those who died at Armageddon will come back on Judgment Day for the final judgment. As I noted, it is clear many are already written in the book of life and others are already condemned to undergo the second death.

  So in your scenario, if the two people were unworthy of the millennium, then both will come back on Judgment Day.

  As a rule of thumb, based on Zech 13:8 where a remnant of the Jews, 1/3 come out of the Holocaust, if that is applied to the world of today, only 1/3 of today's population will be chosen to experience the full millennium. 1/3 of those who are found unworthy of the millennium but are not "bad people" will live into the millennium and die of old age. That will allow for a smoother transition for the huge population drop and for a new generation to help supplement.

  The new kingdom headquarters will be out of Honolulu. The buildings were recently completed about 4-5 years ago. It's an ideal location and Honolulu is an ideal place for world kingdom headquarters since besides being so temperate, there is a concentration of lodging and meeting facilities already set up. Hawaii was my home for about 11 years.

  Anyway, not to worry about yet another misguided concept the WTS has. They have to explain why the 2nd resurrection is totally out of chronological order, which they can't. Likely 2/3rds of the world population will get eternal life, much like 1/3 of the angels rejected God.

  I think a lot of people think Armageddon will unleash God's powers over nature to devastate today's world, but in reality, to destroy governments it is only necessary to kill the people loyal to them. So more than likely it will be similar to what happened in Egypt where the firstborn just died one night. In that way, the survivors will have the bounty and spoils of the world, which are promised to them. Why inherit a world that looks like a post-nuclear desert? Great disasters are also hazardous for the righteous too, so it would be easier just to have the wicked get into the shower, then walk into their backyard in a daze then drop dead, making easy access for the birds to harvest them.

  Further, with the huge population drop, it will take 7 years before new manufacturing will be needed. With the internet and television, the whole world can keep up with what the messiah is doing on a daily basis, like a reality show.

  But no MEAT! I suppose, that if you were going to do something before the millennium would start that you think you might miss, enjoying meat might be one of those things; not that you can't fake a burger, but still...
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  33

  July 2011 Awake, LMAO @ Cover

  by Yan Bibiyan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mag available here.

  setting is obviously in the "new system", i'd say quite some time after the big a. everything looks neat and clean, so it can't be just few months or even years after the big slaughter.. let me point out few things that made me laugh:.

  every effort was made to depict natural materials, but you see leather straps with metal rivets holding the picnic basket lids.

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  Larsinger58

  "Armageddon" is the confrontation of Christ and the U.N. The U.N. will have ruled for 15 months at this time.

  But how really do you destroy world powers? Governments are in the minds of the people and so you need to kill off the people. Sending hurricanes and earthquakes and tornados to destroy everything in the world to kill the wicked isn't necessary. We already see the power of nature and how destructive it can be.

  By contrast, the survivors are supposed to enjoy the "spoils" left over from the wicked that are killed. So why would Jehovah have the survivors enter a world that is similar to a post-nuclear war, only to have to rebuild everything? Rather, he has the power to do as he did in Egypt, which is just kill off the people. The context of Armageddon is a lot of birds eating flesh and then the bones being buried. Once you destroy a person, you destroy his government. So destroying all the world powers involves killing off those who serve the world powers. There will be lots of bodies that will have their flesh eaten by birds. So notwithstanding a few well chosen natural phenomena, God could easily cause the wicked to go crazy, undress and take a shower and then walk out into their backyard naked before dropping dead. This would allow the birds easy access to eating them without having to pick through their clothing. When you destroy the people who serve the government, you destroy the government. An overuse of natural disasters to go through and destroy everything to kill off billions at Armageddon seems contraindicated versus leaving the primary world and its infrastructure in place to facilitate the 1000-year rule of Christ, including global communications now set up via the internet.

  So yet another false concept by JWs. The Bible says brother will turn against brother, so there will be some killing done by the people themselves of each other. But many more will likely just drop dead over a period of 2 months while the birds feast on their bodies. Then all their homes and wealth will be inherited by those chosen to survive. Of course, maybe God will have some buildings struck by lightning or destroyed by earthquake that would have been torn down anyway, like churches.

  Thanks for sharing.

  But also, the world will be more advanced during the millennium than even now. Mankind will grow to perfection and will have improved intellectual capacity. So leather shoes and plastics would be easy. A global communications network for a centralized government also seems vital to keep the entire world on the same page. So likely as little rebuilding as possible will be done. The problem will be training and replacing the initial 1/3 population that will be destroyed at Armageddon. Another 1/3 will survive but die out of old age. This will provide some transitional stability. The final 1/3 will then enjoy the millennium along with their new children.

  LS
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  3

  My letter to GB

  by Kosonen in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi, i want to share with all searchers of truth my letter to gb which i sent them in march this year.

  sadly i did not get any reply from them, in contrary they are condemning more stronger than ever those who have different explainations to bible-prophecies, as is evident from latest july study edition.. hello brothers in the governing body,.

  i have recently heard interesting news on alex jones news chanel on internet.

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  Larsinger58

  Interesting. Alex Jones is certainly focussing on the Illuminati and exposing the secret societies manipulating the world.

  But I agree with the WTS' assignment of the scarlet-colored while beast that was, was not and is to be the U.N. This becomes the 8th king to rule the world. The UN will destroy Babylon the Great, which includes the Federal Reserve and the CIA.

  The Book of Revelation was written during the time of the Roman World Power, thus the sixth after five had fallen in the following march of world powers in connection with the Israelites:

  1. Egypt

  2. Assyria

  3. Babylon

  4. Persia

  5. Greece

  6th: Rome

  Alex Jones is part of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy that says that BTG would be completely exposed. Through Alex and others, people are very aware of the secret socities and international banking and its influence and domination in the world. International banking is linked with Babylon the Great.

  Thanks for sharing your letter. Unfortunately, I'm sure the WTS considers you apostate and you will be marked or even disfellowshipped. That's likely why you haven't heard from them yet. But they definitely will contact your congregation if you're still associated.

  LS
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  10

  Lars...three questions. yes or no

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  lars... no paragraphs full of explanations.

  you said you run out of chronolgy after dec 21 2012, so on the 22nd will you:.

  declare it all came to pass we just cant see it...yes or no.. public apology...yes or no.

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  Larsinger58

  "Where Did We Go Wrong" - Great song by Diana Ross. Thanks, digderidoo!

  Declare it all came to pass we just cant see it...yes or no. NO

  Public apology...yes or no NO

  recalculation... yes or no NO

  EXCEPT, when I said I "ran out of chronology" it is more specific to say it runs out 15 months after The Fall of 1999. That significance, for the record is the end of the "last hour", which is the 12th hour from 1914. Each hour is 7 years; a half hour is 42 months, 3.5 years. The vinewyard workers begin their 11 hours of work in 1914. They work for 11 hours, 77 years, until 1991. They are paid their wages, from the last to the first over the next 7 years during the "last hour" which would be from 1991-1998. Only the 2nd coming did not occur until Dec. 25, 1992. Recall the 2nd coming cannot take place until the "man of lawlessness" is revealed. That took place on November 10, 1992 when the GB of JW were sent a letter telling them they were the "evil slave" and the "man of lawlessness" and that they would now be cast into physical darkness. This ended 1290 days. The messiah arrived 45 days later on Dec. 25, to fulfill another application of the "1335 days."

  Christs first and last passover/Memorial after his return took place on April 6, 1993. At this time the payment of the workers officially began and the sealing of the elect (eventually to number 1,440,000) began, with the last to the first. Thus the original anointed ones of JWs were paid last by the Fall of 1998.

  But there is an extension by one year based on Luke 13:

  6 Then he went on to tell this illustration: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit on it, but found none. 7 Then he said to the vinedresser, ‘Here it is three years that I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree, but have found none. Cut it down! Why really should it keep the ground useless?’ 8 In reply he said to him, ‘Master, let it alone also this year, until I dig around it and put on manure; 9 and if then it produces fruit in the future, [well and good]; but if not, you shall cut it down.’”

  So if we apply this to the end of the "last hour" in 1998, then we extend to 1999. That is when I run out of chronology except for the 15 months the UN is supposed to rule the world just before Armageddon, following which the millennium will begin.

  So technically, "I run out of chronology" in 1999 save for 15 months preceding Armageddon. The only Biblical chronology left now is the 15 months (which could be "cut short") of U.N. rule which begins when BTG is destroyed. A clear indication of this would be when the UN begins to rule and BTG, which includes the CIA and the Federal Reserve are destroyed by the U.N. when it takes over world domination.

  DEC 21, 2012 is a great day to start the millennium since it would coincide with a "new ear" with regards to our solar system and the Milky Way. But that is just an "observation" and it is not Biblical, besides noting there would be "signs in the Sun, Moon and Stars." (Luke 21:25)

  LUKE 21: 25 “Also, there will be signs in sun and moon and stars..."

  One could consider this as a reference to the Mayan calendar.

  LARS