Posts by Larsinger58

10

I think you will find hours and hours of fascination to be had here.....

by Terry in

http://users.adam.com.au/bstett/jehovahswitnesses.htm.

jehovah's witnesses.

the religion most analysed in investigator magazine is jehovah's witnesses.

I think you will find hours and hours of fascination to be had here.....

by Terry in

http://users.adam.com.au/bstett/jehovahswitnesses.htm.

jehovah's witnesses.

the religion most analysed in investigator magazine is jehovah's witnesses.

Interesting review...

by mrsjones5 in

of the wt book "revelation: its grand climax at hand!

" on a huffington post blog, date april 1, 2013.. here's the link:.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-gilmour/10-observations-about-the-jehovahs-witnesses-and-the-book-of-revelation_b_2986329.html.

Interesting. Thanks. I find it curious that an outsider would notice how God, Jesus and those in heaven are consistently white, as if others would expect those in heaven to be at least a little multicultural. This has come up before. The WTS, though, has a direct background of teaching at one point that the white male was the original perfect man and that women and non-whites were a result of the fall into sin. Growing back to perfection used to mean that eventually everyone would be white males.

Thanks for posting the article!

QUOTE FROM ARTICLE:

" Though there are clear exceptions in the book, some pictures appear to favor whites, males, heterosexuals (couples with children), westerners (indicated by clothing) and the middle class. When God's face is visible, it is white as are the faces of Jewish male authority figures in the text (Jesus, John, the patriarchs; see e.g., 7, 16, 70, 213, 301). Other figures, like angels and the 24 elders, are also white. The interpretation of Revelation 11 illustrates this tendency to construct the ideal figure as a white, western male. Ezekiel's story of the dry bones is invoked as part of the explanation for the two witnesses rising from the dead in Revelation 11. These two passages are identified as prophetic utterances that had "their striking modern-day fulfillment in 1919, when Jehovah restored his 'deceased' witnesses to vibrant life" (169; i.e., the early days of the organization's history [as Bible Students]). The picture on page 169 depicts the death of bearded and robed Jewish males and presents a background of dusty bones. An inset shows the "resurrection" of these bones as two white males, with short haircuts, suits and ties that represent the rebirth and the "modern-day preaching work" of the Bible Students/Jehovah's Witnesses."

10

Rant about WBT$ fulfilling scripture

by punkofnice in

i feel the need to rant so bear with me.. i've seen posts and blogs where a scripture is used to show how wicked the wbt$ are.. well, i believe the wbt$ is a vile cult with disgusting individuals as it's leaders.. one thing i learned from the wbt$ is that a scripture can be used to prove almost anything!.

when i read posts where a scripture is sited and directed against the wbt$ i'm not impressed.

not because i'd ever defend the paedophile loving filth in brooklyn but because it's just words and personal interpretation from a collection of fables, myths and fairy tales.. even when i was a christian i still thought that you could make anything fit scripture......and if you have a bee in your bonnet you can use the bible in the propagandist way eg.

Larsinger58

I understand you, but I'm on the other side. I'm of the "anointed" and so the Bible must be true and its prophesies fulfilled. So I'm seeing a different interpretation. you said:

One thing I learned from the WBT$ is that a scripture can be used to prove almost anything!.

But I don't see that is really being true. For instance, the 70th week deals with math. If the 70th week was from 29-36 CE for the first coming, then the 70th week for subsequent periods is a definite, absolute period of time of 7 years. Thus look at this:

36 CE ends the first 70th week.

Add 490 years to see when the end of 70th weeks occur in subsequent centuries. Simple math.

36 + 490 = 526 AD

526 = 490 = 1016 AD

1016 + 490 = 1506 AD

1506 + 490 = 1996 AD

So 1996 ends another 70th week. That 70th week would be from 1989-1996. Now that is a limited interpretation and very specific.

Now the 1290 days and 1335 days prophecy can be applied many ways, I agree with you. The WTS used to think it dated the second coming in 1874. Now it dates some publication of theirs coming out in 1922 or something! Clearly wrong. But some think the 1260 days relates to the Balfour agreement in 1917 and the 1290 days to 1947 when the Jews came out of exile. So they also conclude that the 1335 days, which is 45 years later, has to occur in 1992. This is just one interpretation, but if you think the 1335 days applies to when Christ is supposed to arrive in 1992-1993, then you compare that to the 70th week prophecy, which is also when the Christ is supposed to arrive in the middle of the week at the 2nd coming, then you are looking at the same year! So sometimes the coordination of two different prophecies show you what must be the correct interpretation!

Now as far as the Bible being a book of "myths", I see that as a convenient way to get out of paying attention to anything in the Bible. But after doing some chronology research in archaeology for ancient Egypt, I discovered that the Exodus occurred at the time of the pharaoh Akhenaten who is known for suddenly converting to monotheism along with the entire nation of Egypt! That would support the 10 plagues happening at this time! So I can't just think of the Bible or the 10 plagues as a myth when we have archaeological evidence that fits this dramatic event at this time in Egyptian history. Thus, simply based on my secular research, I find that the Bible is not a book of myths but true history. Besides that, we hae secular records in various surrounding pagan nations confirming the existence of the people in the Bible, especially from the time of Jehu and Ahab, down through the Assyrian and Neo-Babylonian Periods! So even YOU must agree that every single thing in the Bible is not mythical. I acn accept you doubting things that can't be proven, but the fact is, many things can be and that adds to the validity of the Bible.

Here's a video on the Exodus and Akhenaten you might find interesting. In the meantime, Satan's academic world is full of lies and deceptions and tries to distract from the truth, so many actually think there is no secular evidence of the Bible's history. This is simply not the case!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpkK6XoqRQo

2

Watch Tower Fallacies - 4/2/2013

by cognisonance in

in another thread a poster, oubliette, asked to share logic fallacies we spot in wt publication.

that is a great idea and thread to which i've already contributed.

i'll also the contents of this post to that thread, but thought that it's easier to discuss a particular fallacy (or fallacies) in use in wts publications if we consider one quote at a time.

Larsinger58

NEON: This might also be considered a form of special pleading, since they do not recommend that these questions be applied to evaluating their own material, only to material that disagrees with their position.

This is the WTS' "bait and switch" hypocrisy in a nutshell. They use the Bible to have you examine your own previous religion so you become a witness. Then once in, they tell you to drop the Bible and go by the Watchtower without questioning them, and that is exactly what all of them do! All they really care about now is being a good witness and examining their own teachings per the Bible is not their concern. When using the Bible to leave a "false religion" you're being objective, if you use the Bible to examine the WTS' teachings, then you are "running ahead" and using "independent thinking," which is outlawed. All Satan's design!

23

The resurrection fantasy, the last desperate illusion?

by Slidin Fast in

as people get older they inevitably lose more of their friends and family.

the doctrine that binds them to the truth like superglue is the doctrine of the resurrection.

they ache to see their dead rise.. so ... i die.

Larsinger58

Who "we" are is the conscious memory of ourselves. The physical body only houses that entity.

The 1st resurrection is thus described as a "seed" that is sown into an imperfect body at 1 Corinthians 15. So for the first resurrection, those who died in Christ and must be resurrected before the millennium are actually implanted into living modern anointed ones and thus they share a body and identity. The living anointed ones perhaps experience the "memory" of a previous life.

That's why the 1st resurrection is completely invisible! But that is also quite brilliant to resurrect the past dead into the bodies of the modern living because there are no adjustment or orientation issues. Those resurrected come back speaking a modern language and having all the knowledge and history of what happened from the time they were first here until now!

At the second resurrection, obviously individual bodies will be provided for the dead who come back much like the "angels" and thus in bodies that are likely androgynous, that is, having both aspects of male and female. There will be no marriage at this time and no new children; but that doesn't mean there will be no sex. Only, since everyone is unisexual at this point, it will be possible to have an intimate (sexual) relationship with every other human on the planet, sort of like in a big, open marriage. Now imagine if there were say 4 billion people on the planet who end up getting everlasting life. Let's say a computer program arranges for you to meet and live with each person on the planet for a year in a different location on the planet every other year. This process would take 8 billion years to complete. That is, at the end of 8 billion years, you will have lived with and had sex with every other human on the planet and likely lived in every single city, apartment and home on the entire planet as well! God's greatest creation in the earth are humans!

9

The conflicting tracks about the anointed

by Pistoff in

i was gobsmacked to hear wife tell me this:.

she said the co's wife in her mother's hall is anointed.. my mil asked the co's wife why she thought that the number of anointed are going up.. the answer will make you think, and might make you a bit angry.. the co's wife said:.

well, 'they' looked around and realized we need more anointed, not less, as they are the ones who take the lead (ie, the fds).. i trust the source for this information implicitly; i believe it.. .

Larsinger58

Interesting, but complex. I'll just make one relative point:

Isa 6:13 And there will still be in it a tenth, and it must again become something for burning down, like a big tree and like a massive tree in which, when there is a cutting down [of them], there is a stump; a holy seed will be the stump of it.”

In the NT, the anointed are likened to an olive tree, where the gentile branches replace lopped off natural Jewish branches. But the stump or the root is still considered to be Jewish. If we apply the concept of the anointed chosen for heaven to Isaiah 6:13, with a clear indication that while the majority of the Israelites lose their standing in the covenant, except for a small remnant that becomes the "root" or the "stump" of the tree, and that holy root is based on the 12 tribes of Israel and thus the 144,000, then the 144,000 is a reference to the natural Jews in the kingdom. Since that makes up one tenth of the entire tree, then the entire number must be 1,444,000!

So technically, from an advanced spiritual point of view, there is plenty of room to fill the number of chosen ones in the heavenly class. In fact, elsewhere we find when the call goes out to come to the wedding feast, many beg off and don't come and when the number is not filled up then the servants go out and find those in the street not even invited to fill that number. That concept works a lot better when that number is 1,440,000 vs. just 144,000!

So as far as "context" is concerned in regards to the kingdom, it would not surprising that more are claiming to have the heavenly calling who are still active witnesses.

PART TWO, ANOTHER REASON FOR THE INCREASE: On the other hand, there is yet another reason why there might be an increase in the anointed still connected with JWs! That's because the parable of the "ten virgins" directly apply to the witness organization. These ten virgins represent the anointed among JWs. But as we note, five are wise and five are foolish. Thus when Christ arrived in 1992, the anointed who were wise and who had a focus on the "extra oil" in scripture, were able to recognize the true Christ and join him in the wedding feast. But five of the virgins were foolish and without the "extra oil" did not recognize the true Christ. In addition, the five wise virgins shared none of this undersatnding with them. So a division was created between the anointed from the Fall of 1998. This fundamentally means that half of the anointed associated with JWs fail their calling. If so, then one can surmise that there are many other places in the kingdom that might be filled by others!

So either way you slice it, there are at least two scripturally based reasons why more anointed ones are appearing at this time. One is because the number is actually 1,440,000 and second, there is a 50% failure rate of the original anointed JW class! So in general, the claim of anyone, een still associated with the WTS that they are of the anointed is considered legitimate until proven otherwise, even though it doesn't make sense under the current WTS' concept of who the anointed are and who the 144,000 are.

57

Logical Fallacies in WT Publications

by Oubliette in

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Larsinger58

1 - In a footnote to paragraph four, the article defines “Apostasy” as “a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment.” This of course begs the question of whether or not WT/JW teachings really are “true worship.” That, in turn, concerns the very core issues which alleged “apostates” doubt, question, disagree with or have dissenting views.

The fallacy here is that the WTS is under the delusion that they have the "truth"; but in fact, since they don't, they are the actual "apostates", not those who object or question their teachings. The recent teachings connected with the Memorial is a perfect example. We all know the story of the Exodus! The very night the passover meal was eaten is the very same night the Israelites left Egypt, which is clearly dated on Nisan 15th. A national annual holiday celebrating this "night" was established and the daytime event, the festival of unfermented cakes is dated on the 15th. Since the Jewish day begins the previous day at sundown, that means passover must be eaten that same sabbath day, in which case, Jesus could not have died that day since there are no impalements on a sabbath day. Or, you can focus on the fact that if the Israelites left Egypt about the same time of night Jesus was getting arrested, then Jesus must have been arrested on Nisan 15th.

The confusion for the WTS and many others is that they presume because the Jewish secular sabbath begins at sundown, that the calendar date also changes at that time. Not the case. When the Israelites first left Egypt, they followed Egyptian tradition of not changing the calendar date until midnight. Thus even though passover is eaten after sundown on a sabbath day that became the 15th after midnight, passover is still technically eaten on Nisan 14th. When the WTS presumes the date changes at sundown, then they imagine the next 24 hours is still Nisan 14th, which it is not.

Having noted that, this is just an EXAMPLE of a clear-cut false teaching of the WTS which makes them apostate and not those who stick by the detail and truth of God's word.

So the WTS is now the "apostate" based on the false presumption that they have the "truth and the light", when at this point, they clearly don't.

34

THE BLIND SPOT identifying the refuting target of Jehovah's Witnesses

by Terry in

the life of a human being progresses toward maturity and peaks and then gradually atrophies into old age, inability, possibly debilitation and then death.. it is the same for all people unless they meet with an accident or misfortune along that continuum.. i propose that we measure and test the virtue of being a jehovah's witness by focusing on the blind spot of their religion.. .

what is the blind spot?.

the watchtower society is in major denial that the members of that religion will actually grow old and die.. as a consequence of this major blind spot the members are less likely to include provisions for that inevitability.. the active and committed jw spends a preponderance of their vital years serving the needs of the group and not for saving for old age.. once that outstanding performance lessens and fizzles into decrepitude--the society itself makes no provision for their senescence.. .

Larsinger58

Like I stated, I'm glad some witnesses just were not listening or ignored the misguided advice. It's one thing if you've decided to be single, live modestly and go into the full-time service. It's another if you plan to marry and have a family.

I just want to add that some have been successful in business in lieu of a demanding career. But we all need to take care of ourselves.

I'm now retired and having to face getting a part-time job, but as well, I see this as a wonderful opportunity to start an internet business (i.e. like doing basic ancestry searches, etc. which I enjoy and have done before).

2

Why Did Jesus Address His Apostles As A Little Flock? Addition

by wannabe in

[revelation 5:9,10;20:4].

" [ephesians 2:19-22] so, from that we see, that it was only the twelve apostles that jesus referred to as a little flock, as it says about other members of the heavenly calling; ''you are fellow citizens of the holy ones and members of the household of god' 'you too have been built upon the foundation of the apostles, and prophets... together into a place for god to inhabit by spirit.

' [ephesians 2:19-22. this is why paul could say the following, about the heavenly calling: "what!

Larsinger58

The anointed of the WTS is considered a collection of "sheep and goats" which are separated when christ returns (1992). But remember, this is just one slave organization out of "ten" which is the Biblical number for completeness. Thus there are nother "slave" organizations or ministries where Christ is also collecting "sheep." This "little flock" that represents the faithful anointed of the WTS is brought to the larger body of sheep collected elsewhere. So it is a relatively "little flock" compared to a much larger flock. Thus the WTS faithful anointed are a small flock compared to other elect. The entire body of the elect is 1,440,000! The 144,000 are those who must come from the natural Jews/Israelites.

Since the parable of the "10 virgins" also applies specifically to the WTS, only 50% of the anointed with the WTS will prove faithful, that is, "wise virgins"; the other 50% constitute the "five foolish virgins" who miss out on their calling. So it is a "little flock" for more reasons than one.