no such thing.
tjlibre
JoinedPosts by tjlibre
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Inactive = D/F in 3 Years
by Simon Morley inis it true that there is a now policy that if you are inactive and not attending meetings that after three years you will be d/f'd?
i have a friend who is very concerned that this is now policy.
can any shed some light?.
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Ambiguities surrounding the enforcement of Watchtower rules
by drew sagan ini could write a good bit on this topic, but thought i would simply open this up for discussion.
here are a few things to think about:.
- the watchtower has no fundamental writing that it turns to as its foundational text.
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tjlibre
There are so many things to consider. For example, most of the time, the “latest” WT’s “pronouncement” on a subject overrides the oldest. If the “latest” is not in your favor, then the “older” can be used to prove a point to someone not inclined to do research.
imoa…At the end of the, the factor that’ll determined if a rule or set of rules will be enforced is be the clout, pecking-order place, opinion, etc. of the “assigned” decision maker i.e, BOECO, JC- presiding overseer, CO, etc.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-10-10 WT Study (PRAYER/BIBLE STUDY)
by blondie inquotes from other sources will headed by quotes.
w = watchtower.
3:16, 17) of course, the bible.
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tjlibre
All I can say is.....since I have been reading the Bible on my own, I feel so much closer to God and I think THEY are totally misrepresenting Him.
I second that!
Blondie
Thank you for your comments. I benefited from your observation that there was not a single prayer from the NT in this “study article”, not even one of Jesus prayer.
I’m looking forward to your comments for the next article. It’ll be fun.
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The Gradual Change From Worshiping Jehovah To The Worship Of the Governing Body
by frankiespeakin ini first began my misadventures with jehovah's witnesses in 1972 as a youth(18 years old) and was baptised in that same year.
i was young inexperienced and they caught me at a low point when i was weak and looking for god to solve problems.
being raised as a catholic and going to all the religious indoctrination up to the point of confirmation, i guess you could say i was indoctrinated from birth to believe a certain way which left me vulnerable to the jw propaganda.. fast foreword to the time of my departure in 2001 february.. for a couple of years (late 90s) before i left i started noticing out right lies in the wt publications about their history and the luster that these magazines used to have started to fade rapidly also around that time i really began to notice the gobs and gobs of praise they were bestowing on the organization and the representative members of the so called faithful & discrete slave(gb).
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tjlibre
You know…I’m glad that the GB is polluting almost all aspect of the JW programs and activities with their repeated call for obedience. Also, that the conventions (assemblies) and meetings are becoming more dull and lifeless.
I’ve developed a mental taste aversion towards the words “faithful slave”, “the mother organization”, “GB”, “the truth”. A brother was giving a part in the service meeting about two or three weeks ago, he repeatedly used the words “the slave says”, “the slave has instructs us”, and then “we should keep following the guidance of the FDS”....I know this bro very well, so I know that he was not doing this on purpose, it was just a reflection of how deep the indoctrination sinks in a person’s mind. The disgust I was feeling was so evident that my wife asked me “honey, are you ok?” after the meeting some well intended bro and sis approached me asking if I was ok. I’m convinced that one of the major contributing factors to my disillusion with this religion is the GB constant emphasis and outright demand for worship.
Them fools are becoming bolder and bolder.
Hey, this is funny from the Daily Show with John Stewart….
Look at min 2:25 reference to the 144k & JW… LOL
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Song Book changes - the 'real' reason behind them - EYE OPENING
by EndofMysteries init's very interesting comparing things that are removed.
for one, new world order and new world, new order, all being eliminated from everything.
just research nwo, "new world order", etc, to see.
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tjlibre
I got a feeling that they are expecting a big drop by 2014. Or that there is a power struggle among the WT’s business managers and the ones with a little Christian conscience left. Obviously, something is going on that will affect the GB’s clout.
They laid off or reassigned a lot of Bethelites from Wallkill and Brklyn…but they are accepting a lot of “new temporary” and short term (1 to 4 yrs) bethelites to fill in some of the spots they cleared.
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Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 5 and final
by tjlibre ini have expressed in this forum that sometimes im confused as to what will be my ultimate decision.
at this point in my life there is too much at stake.
first, my own emotional estate, ill hate to bitterly regret the years expend taking unnecessary emotional abuse and theocratic bulling.
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tjlibre
Pat1060
You are welcome. I felt that sharing part of my JW life story would help others in the same way that experiences from other posters have helped me. We need to create awareness to the ones leaving or planning to get into this religion.
Yesidid
Thanks for the book recommendation. Ever since I finished reading Ray. Franz In Search of CF my interest in reading non WT publications has grown. I’ll put this book on my “whish list”.
r.a.m
Thanks for the advice. Believe me when I say than some days are better than others. I have entertained the thought of just walking out and face the consequences. Friends come and go, I know that for every JW friend I’ll loose, there might be twice as many potential non-JW friends willing to give me unconditional friendship, perhaps even more sincere. But how could I replace the person I love? It will be unfair if she leaves me if I decide to D.A or get DF’s. But on the other hand, she married me in part because I’m a JW in “good standing”, wouldn’t it also be unfair to her for me to leave on my own accord and ask her to follow me? To drastically change her perception of reality? I’m learning that I need to take my time before making any drastic decision. She is showing me signs that she understands why I’m feeling the way I do; she even encouraged me to step aside as an elder. Titles and positions mean nothing to her. I recently discovered that she is not a die-hard JW as I once thought she was. But she is thankful to the brotherhood because she went through a horrible family tragedy and the JW’s where there for her and her family. The JW went as far as to paying for her rent, cooking and cleaning for her for months. So, I’m realizing that she is attached to her friends and family in the JW religion, not so much to the theology. This past weekend I almost lost one of my parents, I experienced something I never experienced before with the JWs…they showed solidarity and empathy towards me. I suppose I was getting back some of what I have given. Of course, I’m well aware that some of the so called “JW friends” are not real friends after all, but some are, they are just misguided but good people after all.
My quarrel is not with the JW as a religion or people; my issues are with the Watchtower Corporation and its Governing Body. There is no such thing as a “true religion”, therefore, the same difficulties I have in accepting some of the JW’s doctrines I will have in another Christian denomination. I’m well aware that I don’t need to be affiliated to a church in order to be part of the “Body of Christ”. But as I’m exercising more patience with my self, I’m discovering that I can be of great service to the sheep in the cong.
As for getting to know Christ better, I’m working on that. I have to be fair to my self and take it one step at a time. It’s been way too many years of relegating Jesus to a secondary role, it’s difficult to view and worship him as God. He himself expressed this idea when on earth in the form of a man he said to Satan: "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.” I have no interest in discussing theology related to Jesus relationship to God, the history of Christianity shows that this contentious topic goes as far back as the second century c.e. I just want to live my life by Christian principles and conduct my self as much as I can in the same way that Jesus did (I will fall short miserably, but at least I’ll try). He challenged the establishment and exposed the Pharisees and teachers of the Law for what they really were, hypocrites. But he was the Son of God, that was part of his mission, I can do the same (and I’m) but in different ways.
Staying in will be a big challenge, of that I’m well aware. It won’t be easy to act apart for long, but I should not precipitate into a drastic curse of action. If I was single, leaving would have been a lot easier, but then again…granted that my circumstances are others…should I not at least TRY to be part of the solution and try to improve the JW environment? I can spend endless amount of time and energy fighting and criticizing the WT and its GB for their oppressive, deceitful and hypocrite ways; or for their lack of compassion and understanding, or for their unloving, prideful and un-scriptural leadership…but if I at least don’t try to be a little different than them (IN the JW religion), would that not be the same as “looking at the speck of sawdust in my brother's eye and paying no attention to the plank in my own eye?”If I say that they are bad shepherds, will I be any better if I just turn my back on the flock and leave them alone among the wolves? I don’t want to be a hero or a savior, I’m just learning to work with what I have, I realized that I need to take it slow and wait a little longer for the end of my service in the JW religion.
OTWO
I know what you mean. I can’t no longer support the blood policy, the GB’s demands for unchallenged obedience, the stance on higher education and the two Christian class doctrine, among other things. I try to dodge getting parts dealing with some of these subjects, when I’m unsuccessful at avoiding them…I give them a twist. It kills me, but I say to my self ….this is a “theocratic war”. LOL!
I understand where you’re coming from. I’m aware of the danger that some face by staying in the JW religion. But we all know that challenging a JW’s perception of reality (in most cases) only triggers a defense mechanism. They’ll defend their mind in the same way they’ll defend their bodies. I noticed that the majority of us came to our discoveries on our own accord at first, then with the support of others…but that we all took the first step. I feel that each person is responsible for their curse of action and believes. We can only show the way to the ones that are willing, able and ready to redraw their maps.
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Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 3
by tjlibre indescribing your personality in writing is a challenging task.
they say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you cant see my face as i give this account.
the following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but ill like to say that im far from that.
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tjlibre
OTWO
I think I would have steped aside and a fader by now.
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Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 5 and final
by tjlibre ini have expressed in this forum that sometimes im confused as to what will be my ultimate decision.
at this point in my life there is too much at stake.
first, my own emotional estate, ill hate to bitterly regret the years expend taking unnecessary emotional abuse and theocratic bulling.
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tjlibre
Now what?
I have expressed in this forum that sometimes I’m confused as to what will be my ultimate decision. At this point in my life there is too much at stake. First, my own emotional estate, I’ll hate to bitterly regret the years expend taking unnecessary emotional abuse and theocratic bulling. Leaving some good friends behind will definitively leave an empty space in my life. But what concerns me the most is the effect that my leaving the org. will have in my marriage life, I love that woman (my wife) I wouldn’t want to be the one to mess “things up”.
Where do I go with what I now know?
Could I keep a straight face when in casual conversations someone express to me word of praise for how “good” the GB is to us, how they provide “with meat in due season” at the proper time. Or when they criticize other religions for being oppressive, preaching lies, being joyful or when they mock catholic people for following the “pope”, etc. Will I be able to keep my mouth shot, or will I nod with neutral facial expressions hence becoming less of the man I really am?
Lately, in some of my parts I’ve been including more “Christians” concepts, words and spirit. For example, I began to use the word “grace” as replacement to “undeserved kindness”. When I take out the group I remind the “publishers” to seek for opportunities to show real love to the people in the territory, that placing a magazine is “ok”, but that if we see the opportunity to give food to a hungry person, a blanket to a homeless and a hug to a grieving individual we’ll also be pleasing and honoring God. And try to use their “preaching time” also in visiting the bro and sister that are in the hospitals, in a nursing home or sick at home. I encourage some of the young ones to seek a higher education if they have the opportunity to do so, I go as far as offering to help them in finding a school, apply for financial aid and pick a course of study. When the bro approach me showing concern for their “low preaching hours” I try to emphasize that sharing our faith with others is important, but that there is much more that defines a real Christian other than just going from door to door. Etc.
In other words, I seek for opportunities to provide encouragement and comfort to the flock as much as I can.
However, I know that others are deserving of the hard-core information. The real good stuff, those I’m directing by dropping hints, directing them to the Kingdom Proclaimer’s book…hey did you know that Russell believed that Jesus was enthroned in 1874 and not 1914… Oh, bro. Rutherful was so excited about the….he thought that the end was coming in 1925, that’s why he built beth sharim…etc, Oh yes that’s on the KP’s book, pg such and such. get my drift.
What does the future holds for me in this religion?
Sometimes I think I could deal with it. Again becoming a less committed JW appears to be the answer and it’s a very attractive option. But I’m aware that this will be difficult because it means that I’ll have to do certain things that at times will upset me.
The poster named “undercover” once said that us, members of the “conscious class” who are still in the religion, were captives and not hypocrites. Ever since I read this comment it has been a little easier to deal with certain things, in fact its even comforting because it means that as a captive person I can work from the inside to bring about liberation not just for me but for others. But also I feel less of a hypocrite towards the brotherhood because I see them now as victims, at different levels… but at the end captives of the WT.
My days as an elder are numbered, but my days as a witness are still uncertain.
What have I learned about me and people?
In the words of John Legend “we’re just ordinary people we don’t know which way to go”.
I was looking for God, the JW found me. I decided to believe in what they thought me, it was my responsibility to be like the Bereans Christians. The WT has over 100 years of experience selling “snake oil”, I was a believer who felt the that opium and the alcohol in the WT’s “snake oil” was doing good to me. I’ve learned that I’m not stupid, but that I was duped. I’ve learn that I have more integrity than what I thought, because I stock to my decision for a long time knowing that the WT was less than truthful. Also, I can not leave out that there were other events going on in my personal life that kept me in the religion. Talking about them here will increase the risk of someone - like the brother from bethel reading this, or you the curious lurker - finding out my real identity. In essence, I have learned more about the real me, what I really want and what I was lacking.
About people…I’ve learn that some were just like me. But many fear the responsibility of making decisions on their own, they fear freedom…in the word of Randy…some are better off left in the “cult”. So it is not my mission to take them out, but I can help in showing them the way…
I care about the people in the JW religion, I care about the sheep in the cong. Even if the day comes when they might turn their backs on me, shun me, and probably spit on my face and stone me to death…I won’t hold them responsible. In the words of R. Franz they are “captives of a concept” “victims of victims”. I have learned that there is a difference between real Christians and WT loyalists.
Where does my faith in God and Christianity stand now?
I’m a “reflective humanist Christian”, the bible says that God is love, therefore, love is my new religion. I believe in a Creator. I believe that there is more to life than this present life, but that believe should not stop me from living this life to the fullest, and from squeezing the juice out of this present life of mine.
I feel that its presumptuous to think that humans could have a complete understanding of the deepest things of God, then pack it, wrap it, put a labeled on it and call it the “Truth”. That is like putting Jehovah’s greatness and wisdom in a box. I’m not going to try to put theology in a box. I now have the freedom to get to know God a little better, gain my own individual understanding of his grace and love, after all its suppose to be a personal relationship. I have the mental freedom to grow spiritually and in faith in Him, not in man, not in organizations, not in theology, but in Him. It’s an endeavor worth the risk.
In conclusion…
The WT is just another company and its sole purpose is to survival. The GB have lost the real meaning of leadership through love, they are playing with peoples lives and will be held responsible for their action on the day that they take their stand in front of God as individuals. The rank and files are wearing out, only a few hardcore loyalists remain, the rest are just going with the flow… just fonti’n.
As for me,again I’ll need to cultivate patience and serenity. I could be resisting God’s grace; I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I’ve been placed in this position. For good or for worse… I feel that God has a reason for keeping me in this mess me for so long. I’m still waiting for his call to action and I hope to hear it soon.
For what is worth, this is part of my story….and I’m sticking to it!!
Thanks for reading.
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Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 4
by tjlibre inbro.
org.
man approached me and asked why are you not an elder?
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tjlibre
Bro. “Org. Man” approached me and asked “Why are you not an elder?” I acted naively and said, I don’t know, I suppose that the HS has not directed bro “Sudden Change” to recommend me. He looked at me and said, “that’s going to change, would you like to become one?” two conflicting thoughts came to my head: (1) say no and renounce my position as a MS, (2) say yes, and have the opportunity to make a difference and see what goes on behind closed doors. I felt like Gollum and Smeagol from Lord of the Rings… (my Gollum) “they are all hypocrites, this is your change to be free say no…noo” (my Smeagol) “No. Not master (Jah)!” (my Gollum) “Yes, precious, false! They will cheat you, hurt you, LIE.” (my Smeagol) “Master (Jah) looks after us now. We don't need you anymore.” (my Gollum) “you know you don’t trust them (the WT and the GB) anymore you are an APOSTATE!!! APOSTATE!!! (my Smeagol to Gollum) “LEAVE! NOW! AND NEVER COME BACK!” …. I said Yes to p.o “Org. Man”, the recommendation was approved and I was later appointed as a cong. elder.
I soon noticed that in the elders meetings the bible was rarely used, that what dominated the meetings were assumptions, personal opinions and above all the pronouncements, directions, rules and policies from the “Slave”. I was disappointed as it was obvious that we were acting as business managers, supervisors, rule enforcers and lords over the cong. members…not as real shepherds of the flock. I signed up to be a teacher and a pastor and not to be a supervisor and a judge. Bro. “Org. Man” was precisely that…an organization man to the fullest extend of the word, not a jerk or a bad person, but a pure organization man, this guy would not take a step forward unless it was done precisely as the slave has directed it. Technically bro. “Org. Man” was a good Christian, but far from being a spiritual person, he lacked scriptural insight and discernment, but well versed in the WT policy, procedures and pronouncements.
There is a difference between being a follower of man and looking up to a person. I was very disappointed at the appointed man I’ve dealt with; I thought that some how I would find a person in the Org that will show me the way to operate without compromising my integrity to the word of God. Bro. “Org. Man” was all about status in the cong and the circuit, he was more concerned about the name of the cong being known than on its spirituality, he was more concerned about the number of pioneers in the cong than the quality of their preaching, he was more concern about his image than on doing the morally right things. In essence, he showed me that in order to have clout and respect you need to climb up the organization ladder, have friends in the WT’s high places, walk the FDS walk and talk the FDS talk. It was not about reflecting Christ like qualities, it was about being an Organization Man.
Something happened to my cognitive abilities during the time that my doubts were at its strongest. My eyes were now opened to noticed how the language in the publication was about following and obeying the GB, how many times the argumentations in support of the WT’s doctrines were weak, dubious and condescending. After months and days of reflection and prayers, I mastered the courage to do some research on the internet on other Christian denominations, I wanted to see how they operate, how they were structured and organized. This led me to some ex-JW information, which led me to Ray. Franz books.
It took $15 dollars (for the CoC book) and a study version of a non-WT bible to finally reach to the conclusion that the JW religion is not “the truth”, that even though it’s run by imperfect man, the dominating spirit is not real Christian love and fellowship. That the WT is a business which use and abuse the Christian sheep that are associating with it, that the GB exercises too much un-scriptural control over the lives of JWs and above all…that this is not God’s Organization because the Master of the Universe, the Grand Creator does not need a human organization (with its heads quarters in Brooklyn NY) to reveal Himself to humanity.
Now what? Where do I go with what I now know? What does the future holds for me in this religion? What have I learned about me and people? Where does my faith in God and Christianity stand now?
I’ll try to articulate some answer to these question in part 5.
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Why am I Renouncing My JW Faith...Part 3
by tjlibre indescribing your personality in writing is a challenging task.
they say that body language represents 85% of our communication, obviously you cant see my face as i give this account.
the following might probably make me sound like a prideful person, but ill like to say that im far from that.
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tjlibre
freewilly01, got your PM. Will respond shortly. Thanks