I agree with Vienne. I've written before ( I think to some extent on this thread) about my wife and I spending a year researching the history and doctrines of the WTBS. This was in 1988-89, there was no internet. I still follow JW related topics because I find it interesting. I will cheerfully tell anyone who asks what I found out, but I do not feel any need to bang on doors to convert others to my "cause." (Is what Lloyd doing that different?) I've never needed a Lloyd Evans to expose the Watchtower for me.
Posts by JeffT
-
11530It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
I'm not sure he'd have much to worry about, there. Discovery is not a fishing expedition. If he sued someone for defaming him, and their strategy was to use the discovery phase to get his phone/email/etc records, I think they'd be in for a very rude surprise, unless they had very specific requests for very specific records.
Not true, at least in US courts. I've been deposed more than once. A defense attorney can ask for all kinds of things. For example, take the matter of did he or did he not use Patreon funds to pay for prostitutes. He is on public record saying he did not, and he's being libeled. The defense attorney can demand ALL of his bank records, and go through them line by line making him explain what he was paying for and where the money came from. (I've been through a deposition just like that.)
The defense attorney can depose Evans, his wife, his family, her family, members of his congregation you name it. He doesn't have a choice not to answer, the defense lawyer can just have the judge dismiss the case.
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
If I was Lloyd Evans the first thing I'd do would be scrape up some money and hire a really good criminal defense lawyer.
The second thing I'd do is take that lawyers advice, which would be "STFU" in no uncertain terms.
From there on out, the lawyer would do EVERYTHING.
The above applies whether you think you're guilty or not, no rethink that. If you're innocent, those first two steps get really important, really fast.
I don't know what, if anything, he's guilty of. But he's being really stupid about how he handles the whole thing.
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
Here's an interesting tidbit I picked up today. Croatia does not have an extradition treaty with the US.
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
Regarding financial malfeasance:
There is an easy way for Evans to make this go away. If he has another source of income (I'm not aware of one, but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist) and puts the money in a separate bank account, then he can demonstrate he is not using Patron funds for his trips to Thailand. All he needs to do is open the books.
I only know about nonprofit laws in the US, although I would think they are not that different in England or Croatia. In the US a nonprofit MUST have a board of directors that votes on such matters as salaries for officers, or firing them if needed. Nonprofits also have their own tax form to file with the IRS.
I'm not sure what the requirements for handling donations across international borders. I may try to some research (I'm buried at the moment trying to get the next novel up on Amazon). He may have to file a US return if his patrons are listing their donations as tax deductible. The US Internal Revenue Service is VERY touchy about these things, it is an area open to abuse.
Separate issue. If I recall correctly, part of AAWA's problems came from Evan's use of the John Cedars name when they incorporated. In the state they were in (New Mexico or Arizona) the corporate officers had to be citizens of the state, and they had to use legal names. Evans didn't live there, and obviously "John Cedars" wasn't his legal name. Am I remembering this correctly?
Jeff Thomas
retired accountant
-
17
New Book - The Reluctant Prostate
by Simon inhey everyone, i'm writing a new book.. it's the entirely fictional story about a character called "roy devons", an obese clown who was kicked out of clown college because he couldn't stop touching himself.
he launches his own youtube channel where he tells the world how wrong and unfunny clowns really are.
the world already knows this, and never really had much todo with clowns anyway, although some other ex-clowns felt like they needed to be reminded regularly of their past lives.. he hits upon the idea of asking for donations to support efforts to convince ex-clowns to get their prostates checked.
-
-
JeffT
I've thought of a couple of jokes involving Alec Baldwin and shooting blanks, but they're in such bad taste even this thread is inappropriate for them.
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
Really most of the people who woke up in the last ten years learned everything from PAUL GRUNDY, Barb Anderson, Jim penton and others who wrote books or posted what they learned on this site.
Lloyd just makes it easier for lazy People to access this information.
This.
My wife and I left in 1988, at that time there was no internet (at least not that we could access). We spent a year researching the Watchtower. We did most of it at the public library, which had a good selection of works on the Watchtower, starting with CofC. Others that stick out in my memory are "Apostles of Denial" by Edmond Gruss; "The Four Major Cults" by Anthony Hoekma, and Walter Martin's "Jehovah of the Watchtower."
I'm quite sure that doing all the heavy lifting on our own was good for us. Our decision to leave the religion was grounded in our understanding of what was wrong with it. For some time I've held an opinion that if the WTBS disappeared a good number of witnesses would just go find somebody else to follow. I think we may be seeing something very like that in operation. It seems that a good number of witnesses may have traded the GB for Lloyd Evans, because they can't see the similarities, and they haven't trained themselves to properly address the issues.
Because of all that work we did, my wife and I have a much better understanding of what is wrong with all cults, not just one.
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
Something clicked for me last night, it may same inconsequential, but I think it's telling. I'm trying to be a professional writer, so I'm tuned in to how other professionals do things.
In one of the posted video's Evans says that if some one sends him $150 he "might" put their name in the new book's acknowledgments. At the time I didn't think much of it, now I realize that screams "unprofessional amateur." The acknowledgments is where you thank your family for putting up with you; you editor and researchers for making your content accurate, well presented etc. Selling space in this part of your work is bad form.
No, "unprofessional amateur" is not redundant, one can be an amateur at something and still act like a professional. This is especially important if you're trying to make something (say activism and sourcing information) your life's work. Given that he couldn't look or act like a professional in simple matters like combing his hair and hiring a competent editor to hack his bloated video's down to manageable size; why should we be surprised that his lack of professionalism shows up in other parts of his life?
There's a lesson here for other XJW's who want to be activists. Learn the right way to do whatever you plan to do. Take classes, go to workshops, start slow as you're learning. Set realistic goals (No, I don't think you're going to "bring down the Watchtower"). Most especially don't try to make it a paying job. First of all, I don't think there's enough money in it. I also think it raises too many conflicts of interest.
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
SilentLamb: thanks for the info about the law on the other side of the pond from me.
Simon, thanks for clarifying the rules at Patreon.
Some info about US tax laws. First, if you are running a non-profit you must have a legal entity to handle the money, and an independent board to decide how to spend it. Any funds paid to you must be authorized by that board. I assume Patreon's rules follow the guidelines. If they didn't that could be charged with money laundering and/or tax evasion. You can't take money for one thing and use it for something else.
I'm not sure how this applies to money sent overseas, I'm still doing some research. Has Evans ever said he's running a non-profit?
Edited to add: I agree with the many statements made above about potential damage to the XJW community. I'm sure we'll be seeing articles and talks about this.
-
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
-
-
JeffT
For a number of years I have been of the opinion that people who want to bring down Watchtower organization are playing a fool's game. I believe that if the Watchtower folded completely a significant number of JW's would just go out and find somebody else to tell them what to do.
I think that current events demonstrate the validity of this position. There seems to be a goodly number of former witnesses that have jumped from the pot to the fire. In their book, Lloyd can do no wrong.
More thoughts on what the future holds. Keep in mind I'm not a lawyer, I'm a retired accountant working with incomplete information.
I don't know about Croatia or the UK, but in the United States its against the law (Title 18, section 2423 if anybody wants to check my homework) to travel to a foreign country to engage in sex practices illegal in the United States. It is possible that Evans' legal problems are just starting.
Some of his financial dealings would certainly get the attention of the IRS. Again, I don't know about the UK or Croatia. In my opinion, Lloyd Evans would be well served by engaging a good lawyer, shutting his mouth (the first piece of advice that lawyer will give him), and groveling for his wife, if she'll listen to it.