I don't see how you can even consider this. You will just be even more under the thumb of the "elders". Unless you want to live a double life of lies, you have to decline.
HappyGuy
JoinedPosts by HappyGuy
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24
Holy spirit making its first mistake
by stillin9 inwell, it seems like that the holy spirit is making its first mistake!
they want to appoint me as a ministrial servant!
i wonder if that means that apostasy while being apointed as a ms is okay?!
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24
My husband is not going to divorce me after all!
by doublelife inso yesterday, my husband gets out of bed and eats breakfast.
then, he comes back over to me and at this point, he doesn't even tell me to get out of bed and get ready for the meeting anymore.
instead, he asked me if i wanted to go.
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HappyGuy
Another thing you might do is use your feminine wiles to take your husbands mind off of the WTBTS. :)
That is what my wife does when she wants something from me!
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24
My husband is not going to divorce me after all!
by doublelife inso yesterday, my husband gets out of bed and eats breakfast.
then, he comes back over to me and at this point, he doesn't even tell me to get out of bed and get ready for the meeting anymore.
instead, he asked me if i wanted to go.
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HappyGuy
Hello,
Of course the news will get back to the elders. They are all gossips and they don't recognize the sanctity of shepherding conversations. Their only concern, once they hear your husband's "problem" will be to take judicial action to "keep the congregation clean". Your husband owes it to you as his wife to put your spiritual welfare ahead of the rules of the Watchtower. Of course the Watchtower claims that there can be no spirituality outside of them but I think it is fairly easy to show how arrogant such a statement is. I don't think it would be that difficult to prove from the scriptures that a husband has to put his wife's welfare ahead of some faceless judicial committee.
I would disagree with you being "an apostate". The Bible mentions persons being labeled "apostate" by God or being turned away from God's face a handful of times over a span of thousands of years. The WTBTS has labelled millions of people as apostate. I think any good hearted person has to see the problem with that.
Then there is the problem of the way that the WTBTS defines "apostate". The Bible defines it as the willfull rejection of Jesus sacrifice after one knows full well the truth about Jesus. (Other people define apostasy a bit differently but the Bible definition always revolves around rejecting Jesus or God after knowing the truth about them).
I don't know if you still believe in Jesus sacrifice and in God, I'm guessing you do. Then, according to the Bible you have not committed apostasy.
Now, the WTBTS defines apostasy as basically not accepting the words of the WTBTS as if they came from God Himself. There are two questions they like to ask people who they are accusing of apostasy. They both deal with accepting the teachings of the WTBTS as the truth and believing that the WTBTS are God's anointed representatives on earth.
I think it would be helpful to reason with your husband that you are not an apostate, that according to the Bible you are not an apostate because you still believe in God. And, that the definition of apostate as given by the WTBTS amounts to violating the dictate in Revelation against "adding anything to these words".
Also, you can point out that the Bible tells us not to blindly follow the words (teachings) of men. Even if those men claim to speak for God. Actually, men claiming to speak for God is a sign of the end times.
If you have not been going around trying to teach others in the congregation beliefs that are not in accord with the WTBTS cult then they will be hard pressed to prove apostasy against yhou since they will need two witnesses. But, the JWs are dishonest when it comes to Judicial committee matters. They are likely to use your husband's asking for help as witness number 1 and the elder he talks to as witness number 2.
Personally, I think it is pretty easy to use the Scriptures to prove that God is not as hard hearted as the Governing Body is.
I think you and your husband should read the Bible together and rediscover the loving God that the New Testament describes. The "god" that the WTBTS promotes is cruel, petty, vindictive, and judgemental. The New Testament describes a very different god.
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45
Nov.15th WT - Treasure your Place in Congregation- "Obey the Slave Class! "
by flipper inonce again the extremely controlling measures taken by the wt society are evident in the "witness only " nov.15th wt article " treasure your place in the congregation ".
as time goes on the governing body keeps pushing the thought into witnesses minds that the " faithful & discreet slave " is the boss , god, main enchilada , the one through whom rank and file witnesses must answer to in order for jehovah to approve them.
so strap your seat belts on: this should be interesting.. under the subheading " cherish our place- how ?
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HappyGuy
This is nothing new.
They were telling us how long we could grow our hair, that we could not have mustaches or beards, that we could not listen to rock and roll or go to concerts, that we could not go ANYWHERE socially where it was a preponderance of "worldlings", that we could not go to college...well, the list goes on and on, in the early mid and late 70s, 80s, and 90s.
It gets worse. They also tell you that you should not, cannot think for yourself, read any material not blessed by them... Oh hell, it is so disgusting, I don't even want to recount it all.
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Family Helping Family, What is the JW Stance?
by garyneal inan open question to everyone regarding a situation occuring in my life.
as you know, my wife and sister-in-law are jw born ins.
my wife is trying to return but her sister is currently inactive.
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HappyGuy
What you have to understand about JWs is that EVERYTHING is viewed through a prism of conformity to the dictates of the cult leaders. They base how much they want to associate with someone on how "strong" that person is in the "truth". Since your sister in law is inactive and has a baby out of wedlock she has been marked by her parents. Marking a family member means that you can associate with them a little but you have to keep your distance.
The part about asking your mother for gas money just means the people are stingy and cold hearted.
Now, I have a daughter that I distanced myself from after I spent over $50,000 over a few years "helping" her because my daughter uses people and is a master at it. That was a hard decision to make but my daughter was ruining my life and my relationship with my wife. (My wife saw through my daughter's manipulation, I did not"). I guess the bottom line with my daughter was that I had had enough.
I don't know your sister in law, so I don't know if her parents are justified in distancing themselves because they have "had enough". But knowing how JWs judge people and turn cold to anyone who is not "strong", I don't find this behavior surprising at all.
One thing you have to be careful of with your sister in law. You are worldly, so you may do a great deal for her and then one day she will become "strong" in the truth again and all of your kindness will be totally forgotten and that will be okay to her because you are "worldly".
Personally, I have a big heart, so I would give her all the love and support I could, while helping her GET HER OWN PLACE, and I wouldn't worry about if she appreciated it or not or what her JW family was or was not doing. JWs can be very machine like, weighing everyting in a very twisted logic of their sect's doctrine, so their behavior can be totally incomprehensible. You are better off if you don't try to understand them and be kind to them but don't expect them to do what any normal parents would do. They are not normal.
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18
A Weakness of the Information Age
by AllTimeJeff ini love the overall direction the world is taking right now thanks to technology and esp the internet.
the world is a much smaller place.
we can now have instant commuinication and know what is going on in the world at any given time.. perhaps its a happy accident that the internet has evolved into a cheap, sometimes free platform for news distribution.
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HappyGuy
One thing I like about the interet is you can now get your news from the source documents. Want to know what the latest scam that Barnie Frank is pulling? You can read the transcripts of his committee meetings, his resolutions, transcripts of his speeches, text of the bills he offers up on the floor.
Want to know the real history behind the Israeli / Palestinian / Arab world debate/strife/war/hatred? You can listen to the speeches of the Arab leaders, who in 1947 promised the genocide of the Jews as they sent their armies off to invade the newly independent Israel. You can read for yourself the newspaper articles and flyers that were published urging Muslims to leave Israeli territory so that the invading Arab armies would have free reign in carrying out their war of genocide. You can then read the decrees by the Arab countries that the Muslims fled to where these refugees were put into camps, camps that their descendents now occupy. You can read the further decrees that denied these refugees jobs, citizenship, education, property, freedoms. Its all online in the original source documents.
If you really want to know if you can trust the "news" you get online, go to the original source documents and form your own opinion.
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Witness funeral used to spread "Watchtower Propaganda".....worldly family left OUT!
by Witness 007 innow that my "eyes are open" i was amazed as i sat at a brothers funeral {he died due to lukemia/not taking blood} the elder mentioned his "spiritual" acomplishments for 20 minutes, his worldly acomplishments like creating a home buisness from scratch and employing his whole family was mentioned in one sentence.
and worst...his worldly family was barely mentioned...he did not mention he was the son of so and so {worldly folks} this was commented on afterwards by worldly friends!???
too much time was spent talking about paradise and the hopes he had etc etc...same old bible verses that were done to death.....blah blah......we may as well have been at a communist party meeting!
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HappyGuy
WuzLovedDubs
"Id have HAD HIM REMOVED FROM THE PREMISES!"
My mother is a Witness, I brought her into the "truth" when I was 15. My mother wanted the JW to give the funeral talk. I thought that the JW should have declined, knowing that out of over 100 people who would be there, sobbing their eyes out, only my mother is an active JW. But, the JWs could care less about that. Giving the info mercial was far more important.
I did make it clear at the gravesite that the JW would be saying NOTHING and my cousins would be doing the farewell to arms. My mother said she was glad that we did that even though at first she didn't want a Marine Corps burial.
My father LOVED the Marine Corps.
I miss my father.
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25
The real harm done by the WTBTS
by HappyGuy inwhen i first realized that the wtbts was not teaching the truth, i thought "well, they are basically good people and teaching some morals, so what real harm is there?"..
then i started looking at the opportunity cost.
by this i mean all the things that a jw does not have access to if they believe the wtbts nonsense.
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HappyGuy
I don't appreciate how you are bringing your arguments into my thread. Commments on the topic of my thread are welcome. Please take your bickering and your preaching else where.
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49
My name was brought up last night in the elders meeting !!!
by elder-schmelder ini was just told by my dad that my name was brought up last night in the elders meeting.. my dad (is or was) an elder, and he told me that the elders are going to be giving me a call.
they have heard rumors that i am an apostate !!.
he said that the elders received a call from another hall that heard that i was an apostate and 1 local brother also turned me in.. does this mean that they have 2 witness to my sin and that they can df me without a jc?.
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HappyGuy
Ask your father who said these things and call them up. Say "Brother gossip monger, I heard that there is gossip going around about me and that this gossip was discussed by elders, do you know anything about it, I am trying to do as Chapter:Verse says and blah blah blah" and quote some scripture that would apply to the fact that people are gossiping about you and you want to handle things in a spirit of Christ like love and understanding.
They won't be expecting that. Then, if Brother Gossip Monger brings up the accusations ask him if he is discussing them with you as a shephard or as a member of the Judicial Committee, but remember the JW elders do not acknowledge the sanctity of information obtained from a shepherding call.
If Brother Gossip Monger gets into serous allegations, act surprised and say "Wow, that sounds serious, can you please put down in writing exactly what the charges are with dates and times when this was supposed to occur so that I can pray on the matter and do some personal study to determine how best to ...", in other words stay firm that you expect something so serious to be communicated in writing.
If Brother Gossip Monger brings up a meeting with them first say that you will be happy to after you have had a chance to read the letter they send you explaining the situation. Then ask if the meeting is to be a shepherding call or a Judicial Committee meeting.
Apostasy is hard to defend against because it boils down to he said / she said and the elders will always take the word of someone who is active over someone who is inactive.
You are in a tough spot because they make these rules up to suit them.
Have you been discussing your personal beliefs with active JWs? How do they know you no longer believe?
I agree with others here that you don't owe these people anything, so playing mind games with them is perfectly all right. Realistically, they do hold the future of your relationship with your family in their hands. Sucks, I know.
If this is the first time an elder has contacted you in a long time you should bring that up. "Where was alll this concern when I was missing meetings 3 years ago?"
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93
A question for all ex jws AND JW's here, btw I'm new too
by EndofMysteries inso far quite dissappointed from what i've seen.
this is very very important, first i"ll address the non/ex jw then i'll address the jw's (jw's scroll down if don't wanna see the first part).
i see so many who have concluded that it was not 'god inspired', a lot of what is being done, and their conscience told them that many things conflicted with jesus teachings and the bible.
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HappyGuy
Did you allow the discovery that their may not be a full truth, to become a cause for joy and excitement that perhaps your free to do all the immoral things and sinful things that displease him, because he will be 'understanding'? I can't believe how many seem to have just given up or wanted to give up. (not saying you should of stayed in the organization, but just how you have lived your life 'after' leaving')
How DARE you try to judge me. A cause for joy? Like I was purposely looking for a technicality so I could "get out"? Like my faith meant nothing to me?
"perhaps your free to do all the immoral things and sinful things that displease him"?
How DARE you. Learning that the WTBTS are nothing but liars and that my "faith" was based on lies was EXTREMELY devestating. It was heart breaking. It is STILL heart breaking.
"I can't believe how many seem to have just given up"
Given up following a false god and his false prophet? Of course we gave up. You imply that there was some defect in us.
..."but just how you have lived your life 'after' leaving'"
What do you know about how I have lived my life? You insinuate that I purposely had a shipwreck of faith so that I could go whore around. Who THE FUCK are you to make such accusations?
Get off this board you sanctimonious, judgemental hypocrite. How DARE you say such things to us.