Posts by IwateBuddy

4

Is the "Should You Believe in the Trinity" booklet history?

by IwateBuddy in

i checked the jw website and noticed the "should you believe in the trinity" booklet is gone!

i guess the they finally realized just how bad it was..

IwateBuddy

I checked the JW website and noticed the "Should You Believe in the Trinity" booklet is gone! I guess the they finally realized just how bad it was.

5

A new commandment

by IwateBuddy in

the jw i am studying with has selected john 13:35 and john 15:12-13 for the study topic next week.

for some reason he did not include john 13:34 which is what i want to ask him about.it says;.

"and now i give you a new commandment: love one another.

Please, designs, do expand. I think you are on to something there. Please add something about how JW's do or don't think like Jews too. The Jewish people I have known probably couldn't be bothered to give the time of day to a JW!

5

A new commandment

by IwateBuddy in

the jw i am studying with has selected john 13:35 and john 15:12-13 for the study topic next week.

for some reason he did not include john 13:34 which is what i want to ask him about.it says;.

"and now i give you a new commandment: love one another.

IwateBuddy

The JW I am studying with has selected John 13:35 and John 15:12-13 for the study topic next week. For some reason he did not include John 13:34 which is what I want to ask him about.It says;

"And now I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

It seems to me that if this is a new commandment there must be an old commandment somewhere that this one supercedes. I think most people would agree that this statement was made in contrast to the original ten commandments found in in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. Do JW's agree with this? God gave the ten commandments to Moses personally who passed them on to the people. JW's will surely agree that this God is the one they call Jehovah. How can an angel or a human being give a new commandment, using himself as the only authority and example, that replaces the old commandment given by God? Isn't this just another proof that Jesus is God? Is my logic faulty? Am I missing something? What do JW's say about this? I haven't been able to find out anything about this on the internet.

53

Totally Busted and Scared!!!!!!

by 2pink in

jw
friends

my husband and i have been fading/disappearing for a few months now.

we haven't been to meetings in quite some time, but most of our family members live out of the area, so they don't know yet.

so with the spirit of joy that comes from newly exiting a doomsday cult, we have been celebrating all the holidays as well as my 5 year old's birthday (she turned 5 on december 2).

IwateBuddy

I suppose she didn't "find out" as you suppose. It sounds like she is fishing. She knows you've been fading and she knows your daughter has a birthday coming up so she put 2 and 2 together and sends you a probing FB message. Bingo!

I would say take the bull by the horns and send everyone you care about a positive, upbeat letter explaining what you are doing and why. If you wait for them to take action it puts you on the defensive and it will be hard to be positive. Take action first and make them look bad.

Good luck.

16

despondant witness

by IwateBuddy in

jw
friends

i moved to a small town about a year and a half ago.

a jehovah's witness came knocking on my door and i gave him the brush-off but he kept coming back and pestering me until i finally agreed to study with him.

we've been studying for about three or four months now and he has lost his original enthusiasm to the point where i am starting to worry about him.

IwateBuddy

Thanks for the responses everyone. It is all helpful. One of the things about living in a small town is that everyone knows everyone else's business. He can't even blink without it getting back to others. Besides the JW pressure there is this small town atmosphere too.

Having an academic background I am good at picking apart mistakes in a discussion or thesis but my weakness is in human relations. I'm not always the most tactful. He's asked me flat out, "Isn't there anything here you can agree with?" and I just say "No." He's trying to find some common ground for us to build on and I keep suggesting the Bible but he wants to find it in his JW publications. Nugget hit the nail on the head. He seems to be a good guy and if I can help him I'd like to. I have probed for his reactions to some of the things I've shown him but his happy missionary stance had never even so much as cracked until yesterday.

Thanks again for the helpful responses!

16

despondant witness

by IwateBuddy in

jw
friends

i moved to a small town about a year and a half ago.

a jehovah's witness came knocking on my door and i gave him the brush-off but he kept coming back and pestering me until i finally agreed to study with him.

we've been studying for about three or four months now and he has lost his original enthusiasm to the point where i am starting to worry about him.

IwateBuddy

Ahhh, unfortunately he doesn't speak English. Is there a site like this in Japanese?

16

despondant witness

by IwateBuddy in

jw
friends

i moved to a small town about a year and a half ago.

a jehovah's witness came knocking on my door and i gave him the brush-off but he kept coming back and pestering me until i finally agreed to study with him.

we've been studying for about three or four months now and he has lost his original enthusiasm to the point where i am starting to worry about him.

IwateBuddy

I moved to a small town about a year and a half ago. A Jehovah's Witness came knocking on my door and I gave him the brush-off but he kept coming back and pestering me until I finally agreed to study with him. We've been studying for about three or four months now and he has lost his original enthusiasm to the point where I am starting to worry about him. I give very detailed objections to his assertions that he can't refute. Yesterday he brought his laptop in with some sort of Bible software but that didn't help him at all. He finally lapsed into total silence for 15 minutes or so and left looking very pale and shaken. He could barely say goodbye. Now given all the pressure JWs are under to perform, adhere to doctrine etc. is there a chance he could lose it and perhaps even kill himself? Has this happened to a JW who can't explain JW doctrine? Can I be held liable if he does?

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

IwateBuddy

AGuest has made a couple of points above that I think need to be clarified. She says -

The Greek word “ theos” means “god”… BEFORE it means “God” (as in “the Godhead,” though such a term can be found NOWHERE in the Bible). It also means “gods” (plural) AND can mean “of God” in the same sentence as it means “gods”… but without ANY sign of an “a”, “of,” “by,” or “to” article preceding it.

the Greek word theos means god. It can be translated into English as 'god', 'a god' or 'the god' depending on context, style, grammar and so on. Articles do not determine if the word should be translated 'of', 'by' or 'to', this is accomplished by case endings. For example

theos - god (as the subject); theou - of god; theo - to or for god; and theon - god (as the object); theoi - gods (as the subject); theon - of gods; theois - to or for gods; theous - gods (as the object)

Even MORE interesting is John 10:35 when contrasted with John 1:1. At John 1:1, there is no article (“of,” “a,” etc.) before the word “ theos” to indicate the word (logos) was “a” god, or “of” god, or “the” god. And so the assumption is that “the word… was God.” Yet, even though the EXACT same thing occurs at John 10:35… the translator(s) INCLUDED the article “of” (even though it is not present in the text). So that EVEN THOUGH THE GREEK STATES “If he called them gods unto whom word God came”… such that there is NO “the” (as in “the word”) AND there is no “of” (as in “of God”)… and so, the GREEK states NEITHER “unto whom [the] word” OR “[of] God came”… SOMEONE decided those two articles should in fact GO there… but NO article should go at John 1:1.

I'm not sure why you say the EXACT same thing occurs at John 10:35. John 1.1 is a simple sentence with a linking verb. In the English sentence "The man is a spy" we see that A (the man) = B (a spy) because of word order. It is not, "A spy was the man" unless you are Yoda! Greek didn't use word order to determine meaning. John put the article with logos to show that logos goes before the equal sign, "The word was (=) God." John, the author of the gospel, was a master of language. He knew and intended for this sentence to leave questions in the reader's minds. At this point it is open to doubt wheher John means 'God', 'god' or 'a god'. Letting his readers ponder that he waited until verse 14 to spell it out for us -"The word became flesh and dwelt among us . . . "

At John 10:35 you say, "EVEN THOUGH THE GREEK STATES “If he called them gods unto whom word God came”" but my Nestle-Aland 26 has,"If he called them gods unto whom the word of the god came . . . " If your Greek text does not have articles there you might want to throw it out! The critical apparatus indicates that every manuscript of this passage reads the same except Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis (D) which omits the phrase "the god came." The articles are there!

To me God is an unknowable mystery! As humans with our limitations we can only comprehend a small part of his greatness and glory. I find that JWs often resort to human terms to describe divinity as does the bible itself. But they get stuck on the math; "How can two people be one? Impossible!" "How can two sticks be one?" Well, they can't. But God is not a person or a stick. God has a divine nature we can't comprehend. How can any person be present everywhere, hearing every prayer, counting all the hairs on our heads? We can't. How can God be Jehovah, Jesus and Spirit all at once? I really don't know but If he can create the world and exist outside of time then I can go along with three-in-one just fine.

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

IwateBuddy

Thanks for that EverAStudent. Fortunately there are a few examples the other way too! Something that bothers me about JW is how they have an answer for everything! I've never hard one say, for example, "I don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that." They have their little JW books and they find the right page and illustrate their point from abstruse Greek grammar, the Church Fathers, the Nicean Creed and so on. They themselves don't know the first thing about Greek grammar, haven't read the works quoted, can't discuss the texts involved and don't intend to either!

Another thing that bothers me is how, around my area at least, they use mostly pretty twenty-something young ladies for doorknocking! They seem to understand marketing very well - much better than theology or Greek grammar anyhow!

304

is jesus a god?

by javig in

hi...i have come across the jw text that says that "the word was a god" john 1:1...who is that "god"?

another god?

is him jesus?...

IwateBuddy

Let's face it, not many people around today know Ancient Greek. It's also been my experience that most Jehovah's Witnesses don't know it either. In fact there is even an article in the November 1, Watchtower, "Do You Need to Learn Hebrew or Greek?" where the answer is not surprisingly "NO"! Why? "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" (p.21). Wow.

After looking over a bunch of websites and studying with a JW for the past couple of months, I find that a lot of people are discussing and trying to understand complicated Greek grammar when they don't need to. Here are some of the positions my JW 'friend' has thrown out and how I responded.

1. There is no article in front of the second theos in John 1.1 so it means 'a god'. Pull out your (or his) interlinear Greek-English NT and ask him (I use 'him' as it is a male JW that I am studying with) to not look at any Greek but only English and follow along. Starting at John 1.2 ask him about every instance of the word 'God' whether he thinks it has an article and refers to God/Jehovah, i.e. the first God in John 1.1 or "a god" i.e the second God in John 1.1. Probably he will guess correctly about "ton theon" in v.2 and sart feeling smug. But then in v.6 he will probably guess that there was a man sent from the first God rather than the second. He is wrong! There is no article - para theou it reads. Dropping down to verse 18 you will see two references to God there and no JW can guess those correctly! "No one has ever seen God." But there is no article. According to them it should read, "No one has ever seen a god." Keep going if you have to. There is no way to make coherent theology out of an article or its absence. If they are still not convinced turn to John the Baptist. How many Johns are there? In John 1.15 there is no article before the name John. Who is this John? At verse 19 there is an article so it must be "the" John. What a tangled web they weave!

2. "At this point the word theos doesn't mean 'god' it means 'divine,'" they say. Ask them to show you any other place in either the New or Old Testaments where the word theos means 'divine.' They can't do it. Stumped again. In fact ask them to show you any place in Greek literature where it is translated 'divine.' They can't do it. Pull out your handy dandy unabridged Liddell and Scott Greek English Lexicon which covers the entire Greek language from its beginnings through the 5th century AD (or photocopy the page at your local library), and look up the word theos on page 791. Ask your JW frind to show you where the word means anything but God. Good luck. You can even check the supplement on page 70 and you won't find it there either. Now ask why its translated 'divine' in this one place only in all of Greek literature and only by JW! They should be feeling a little foolish by now.

Another difficulty, not related to Greek per se, is at John 20.28 Thomas sees Jesus and says, "My Lord and my God!" JWs cannot explain this so they say Jesus was surprised and did not correct his disciple. They use the exact opposite explanation at Matthew 4.8,9 where Satan took Jesus to the top of a tall mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world. In "What Does the Bible Really Teach" on page 37 of my large print edition it reads, "Jesus did not deny that all these worldly governments were Satan's Surely, Jesus would have done that if Satan was not the power behind them." Maybe Jesus was just surprised? Then how about Acts 12 23,24 where the crowd calls Herod a god and an angel of the Lord strikes him dead because he did not deny it! Why didn't an angel of the Lord strike Jesus dead for not denying it back at John 20.28? "Well," my JW 'friend' says, "It's not the same because Jesus is a god!"

Any comments on this strategy with JWs would be appreciated.