Posts by EndofMysteries

5

America Is A Police State

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.motherjones.com/print/240896.

a sad but well-documented article that lays it out.. .

metatron.

EndofMysteries

If this country goes under, it'll be choose your poison one day, police state or mad max scenario.

21

i have a question.. the conventional wisdom seems to be that to 'convert' a jehovah's witness (or get them to see ttatt) you have to ask questions that they cannot answer and engage with their true personality not their 'cult personality'.. intellectual arguments tend to fall flat because jws (who do not already have personal doubts) believe they already know the absolute truth so anything contrary to that truth is nessecarily wrong.

any criticism of their beliefs will be seen as an attack or persecution and will be dismissed as flawed 'human thinking' or 'apostate lies'.. to 'true believers' any amount of contrary evidence and illogical inconsistencies in their beliefs can be dismissed or explained away.

their starting point is that they have special knowledge of absolute truth and all evidence and arguments are then weighed against this preconceived belief.. here is my question.

EndofMysteries

A better question to ask is if anybody who was 100% in here had awaken due to that type of approach.

It probably won't work unless they are already awakening on their own.

35

Earthly Organization Reset - What Would You Do?

by committeechairman in

i've been reading and posting comments on this site for a while now (about a year) and the comments i see indicate that many who are here have good ideas about what would be required if either (1) jehovah's witnesses were completely reset and the whole framework of belief and organization were started over or (2) if a completely new organization were built.

this assumes, of course, that you believe god exists and that he is interested in human affairs (i know some of you don't).

it also assumes that you do not believe that the "heritage" of jehovah's witnesses has such great weight and importance that it precludes putting all beliefs and procedures on the table to examine them and change them if necessary.. given all this, what do you believe should be the beliefs and organization of true worship today?

EndofMysteries

hi Legacy -

That quote you put in the watchtower is a flat out lie on their part. I know this from personal experience, here is how....

I have some family who are still in and they are well advanced in years. They didn't plan for retirement, and one did mostly service, so didn't get work credits. They are on SSI disability, which is under 1,000 per month and medicaid. They barely have enough to survive. One needs major dental work, medicaid won't cover dental, so they had many teeth pulled and could barely eat. Not them nor family had 10,000 to get them fixed. I called bethel on their behalf, explained that due to being discouraged to save for retirement and do service fulltime since they would never reach this age, they listened and now they are in dire straits and can't get help. Asked if bethel maybe has dentist onsite or something who could help or if they could do anything. They said sorry, we don't help any members out financially in any sort of way, nor for medical or anything. The most they can do is tell the local elders, but the local elders told them the same thing and said it's a family responsibility, ask other relatives for help. (all the other jw relatives are broke, and they shun/don't talk to the worldly ones).

They do NOT help their own, let alone others. The disaster thing is only done because it makes them money and maybe a requirement to be called a charity. THey get free labor and donated materials then ask those they help to charge their homeowners insurance as if it was done by paid labor.

Those who worked in bethel their whole lives washing windows when they get old are cut loose with no help, if they hit retirement age, since they wouldn't have had a decent or any income, will get close to nothing.

35

Earthly Organization Reset - What Would You Do?

by committeechairman in

i've been reading and posting comments on this site for a while now (about a year) and the comments i see indicate that many who are here have good ideas about what would be required if either (1) jehovah's witnesses were completely reset and the whole framework of belief and organization were started over or (2) if a completely new organization were built.

this assumes, of course, that you believe god exists and that he is interested in human affairs (i know some of you don't).

it also assumes that you do not believe that the "heritage" of jehovah's witnesses has such great weight and importance that it precludes putting all beliefs and procedures on the table to examine them and change them if necessary.. given all this, what do you believe should be the beliefs and organization of true worship today?

EndofMysteries

I wonder if OP is one of the governing body who knows it's wrong and trying to come up with ways to fix it and keep it intact lol.

I don't remember if it was Rutherford or Russell, but early magazines were written about how organized religion is of Satan and they gave their points as to why. Shortly later they became what they were teaching was of Satan.

Anyway, here is my input on what should be done if the religion was rebooted. But first, I'll list and state why I don't think that scriptually there will be a one worldwide religion prior to the 1000 year reign or new world, etc.

The scriptures say, Jesus didn't say to seek out one group of people, but the only identifying mark is they have love among themselves. That the weeds and wheat will grow together until the harvest.

That the body of Christ has many different parts, which do different things, but as a whole they accomplish his work. In this point, it would be impossible for one organization who is focused on one thing to be able to accomplish everything. JW's focus only on preaching. Yet the scriptures have commandments on feeding and helping the poor, widows, fatherless boys, etc. So for JW's to say they are the only ones who do preaching so they are the true one is wrong. They don't do anything for helping poor. Salvation army is doing God's work of helping them however. Worldwide even in non christian cultures God can move people and there are people who are christlike in all cultures and religions. Those are who are judged who don't know the law but by nature do the things of the law and have it written in their hearts.

Now to get to specifics with JW's.

First, the governing body say they are not inspired, they can't say that then at the same time say everyone must obey them as if Jehovah himself and those who don't follow their direction are rebelling against God. If God was using them like Moses or any inspired ones, then they would not have been wrong about the generations, the resurrection, not marrying, not getting employment, and all the other changes. They need to admit those mistakes, admit that disfellowshippings were human decisions and not from God, and allow spiritual freedom. Spiritual freedom means one puts the bible and their conscience above what any other human tells them is right or wrong.

Shunning policy is a major twisting of scriptures. It's for those who are active members who profess. So for example of a member was activly commiting adultury and told all he won't stop, he can do stuff w/ any married women he wants, then he would be shunned by members, only until stopping and repenting. This has absolutely nothing to do with God forgiving him or not, that is between him and God. But this just shows that members won't tolerate that and it's not acceptable for those who consider themselves to be apart of them. However if he was to leave the religion, he is no longer professing to be a member, so he would be treated like any other worldly person. (not shunned, just a non believer). General sins, elders or older men can help pray, console, encourage, but they have no place to judge. Tons of scriptures talk about not judgeing. The only time Paul said to judge was a man who was with his father's wife, (something against another person and in everyones face, vs just sin that was personal and not hurting anybody, etc)

The scriptures on never talking to somebody or taking them into your home.....that's specifically talking about the antichrist and more specficially those trying to persuade that Christ never came to Earth. So one who doesn't believe, that's their business, but those trying to teach that, don't talk to them. (this is again just going strictly based on what the scriptures in the bible say)

The early christians helped their elderly and poor. The WT is horrible, not only did they give commands to not prepare for retirement and better education promising those would never need them because the end was so close, with all the money they get they don't help any who are in dire conditions because of that. The early christians helped themselves and others. Other churches do the same, helping their own under bad times and non members too.

Another major thing, is association, parties, gatherings, etc. Not only does the WT teach to not associate with any outsiders, but also that it's bad to associate with insiders. You'd think with such a small number of possibly associates, they would have weekly or biweekly gatherings. The assembly halls w/ all their lands could have volleyball, BBQ, etc setup and the whole religion as not only worship together but associate together.

Other churches are always having social events together and this shouldn't be discouraged but encouraged.

Higher education and planning for retirement should be encouraged. The end can come at any time, it's hoped in their lifetime, but plan for the worst and hope for the best type attitude.

Meetings and study should not be studying another persons comments and reasoning and just repeating what they said in the watchtower. A true bible study would be reading a set of scriptures IN CONTEXT, and discussing what they mean. Any audience participation should be based on free thought and no 2 answers will be the same vs read a paragraph then ask a question then reread a phrase in the paragraph as the answer.

Most of the people in the religion are good people, can fixing it happen while keeping them together.

35

Earthly Organization Reset - What Would You Do?

by committeechairman in

i've been reading and posting comments on this site for a while now (about a year) and the comments i see indicate that many who are here have good ideas about what would be required if either (1) jehovah's witnesses were completely reset and the whole framework of belief and organization were started over or (2) if a completely new organization were built.

this assumes, of course, that you believe god exists and that he is interested in human affairs (i know some of you don't).

it also assumes that you do not believe that the "heritage" of jehovah's witnesses has such great weight and importance that it precludes putting all beliefs and procedures on the table to examine them and change them if necessary.. given all this, what do you believe should be the beliefs and organization of true worship today?

EndofMysteries

marking to reply to later

10

JWs So Gullible & Yet Hopeful Wanting To Believe They Are Right

by baldeagle in

1959 jehovah's witnesses in the divine purpose pg.

252. for many years it had been the view of the watchtower that the faithful men of old who served god faithfully before jesus' time would be raised from the dead even before armageddon to join in organizing jehovah's modern-day people and to share in shouldering the remnant'sresponsibility of representing the lord jesus christ in the capacity of overseers of the flock of god on earth.

these men were variously referred to as "ancient worthies," "faithful men of old," and "the princes" in the light of psalm 45:16. .

EndofMysteries

I like the part how it was changed from "it had been the view of the WATCHTOWER", to "Jehovah's people thought".

The humility of the governing body is truely a sight to behold!

17

Mexican family killed and very heartbreaking!!!

by ADJUSTMENTS in

jw
friends

in mexico there was a jw family of 8 killed with machetes it's very heartbreaking!

the problem i have is why does the wbats not make a mention of things like this in the yearbook!!!

they will tell you about how a brothers chickens didn't die and how jehovah must have blessed him... but if a whole family is killed where is the mention of jehovah now??????????????????????????????????????

EndofMysteries

This kind of thing wouldn't be in a yearbook story, it would be as a watchtower experience on the protection of meetings and if you miss just 'one' meeting, something like this can happen. (even though it prob happened before the meeting, they might put a spin on it of happening minutes after missing the meeting)

17

Mexican family killed and very heartbreaking!!!

by ADJUSTMENTS in

jw
friends

in mexico there was a jw family of 8 killed with machetes it's very heartbreaking!

the problem i have is why does the wbats not make a mention of things like this in the yearbook!!!

they will tell you about how a brothers chickens didn't die and how jehovah must have blessed him... but if a whole family is killed where is the mention of jehovah now??????????????????????????????????????

EndofMysteries

" The eight were found on Sunday morning after they did not attend a Jehovah's Witness meeting and congregation members became concerned."

They are on top of things in Mexico, miss one meeting and they'll be at your door a few hours later.

49

The Governing Body Have Stabbed Many Old Bethelites In The Back By Not Taking Care Of Them In Their Old Age

by frankiespeakin in

these guys are real company men when they have mass lay off of older bethelites tossing them to the curb and making the congregation they are assigned to carry some of the load, so that the watchtower corporation can cut costs of providing for these nolonger young people who have devoted theirs lives to the corporation.. they are heartless bastards aren't they?

i wonder what kind of undercurrent this is causing at headquartes?.

EndofMysteries

It's bad enough they cut them loose when they are getting of old age, but here is something even worse about it...

All those years, they were not saving any money for retirement, and they also weren't getting social security credits, so not only are they cutting them loose, but they will have a welfare retirement.

6

A conversation I had with an elder...

by EndofMysteries in

not too long ago i had a long conversation with an elder and at some point the topic went towards exceptions to the rule and how everything is not black and white.. his example he gave me....he asked if two married sisters who have unbelieving spouses were invited to a christmas party at their spouses workplace, if it would be wrong for both of them to go.

he went on that it depends on the reasons.

he said sister a husband is well mannered and responsible, is okay with her not going, and her going there would merely be participating in everything.

EndofMysteries

That's a good one eyeuse2badub.