Posts by nugget

28

When A Fellow Apostate Goes Insane, What Can We Do To Help?

by RottenRiley in

jw
friends

i don't know how to handle the situation with a fellow apostate who has lost their mind due to this evil cult.

this guy is texting many of the elders under alias of six different cell-phones no less than twenty times a day.. .

we had to change the locks at the kingdom hall because he was still stalking and prowling around the hall after advertsing he had left the kingdom hall and we were all no less than mind-dead zombies sucking out of the life of thinking individuals.

nugget

Anger and the desire to do something are common reactions. Also if the local elders have behaved despicably and interfered with family ties then the stress is enough to drive anyone to extreme action.

The Watchtower society is a very difficult entity to have an impact on. They have groomed their members on how to feel and react to any threats so it is difficult to make an impression. What is important is that someone takes time to heal themselves and gain mental strength after an exit from the organisation. Launching any affirmative action whilst stressed and emotional may lead to someone behaving irrationally. This man is doing what he feels is right and is likely fueled by anger and a sense of injustice.

Is anything he is doing illegal? If so it will not be long until the police are involved. He may need to contact ICSA who can put him in touch with counsellors that help people exiting cults with counselling and advice.

13

please need some advice!

by insearchoftruth4 in

how would you handle a situation where your grandkids are being used by their father to manipulate their grandmother into going to the meeings?

grandkids sending text messages to grandmothers phone asking if she will come to their meeting.

grandmother is no longer attending meetings and doesn't wants to she know ttatt.

nugget

The problem is that grandma is already seen as bad association. A few visitis to the kingdom hall will not resolve this as once the JWs radar has you then nothing short of zealous worship will be enough for them. Random visits will also mean that elders will feel they have the right to pry into what you think. Son in law sounds like a control freak.

I would use supervised visits to reassure the grandchildren of unconditional love, that you would like to see more of them outside the meetings since in a more social setting you can really talk to them and find out what is happening in their lives. Keep away from the subject of religion and if the children ask why you haven't gone to the meetings then as has been suggested use illness as a cover. But say how much seeing them has given you a real lift and that you have really benefitted from seeing them.

13

please need some advice!

by insearchoftruth4 in

how would you handle a situation where your grandkids are being used by their father to manipulate their grandmother into going to the meeings?

grandkids sending text messages to grandmothers phone asking if she will come to their meeting.

grandmother is no longer attending meetings and doesn't wants to she know ttatt.

nugget

I am so sorry this is happening. Emotional manipulation is unsurprising and common and this is a nasty example.

As a grandmother it is natural to want to spend time with grandchildren and their father knows that this request will have greater impact then one from an adult.

How often outside meeting times are the grandchildren able to spend time with their grandparents or is it only at the meetings? Are visits conditional on keeping up the appearance of meeting attendance?

It is hard to know what to advise without a little more information. If this tactic is being used to coerce then there is also the implied threat that failure to attend will result in withdrawal of affection.

77

Should Creationism Ever Be Taught In Schools?

by nicolaou in

this is taken from the bbc's sunday morning show 'the big questions'.

i was going to pick out a few highlights but really, you need to watch the whole thing - it's only 23 minutes.

seriously, i could feel the bile and frustration rising in my gullet .

nugget

We are talking about science not whether someone holds a particular viewpoint and expresses it in discussion. In science people research theories and present their findings to other scientists for peer review. This body of work is then used to inform scientific understanding.

If there have been no papers then what has been discussed is a private viewpoint unsubstantiated by peer review, unproven and therefore an opinion not science. Otherwise any wacko could have an opinion on anything and children would be taught it.

When creationism has been subjected to scrutiny and therories tested then it could be discussed in science otherwise it is a religious topic only.

77

Should Creationism Ever Be Taught In Schools?

by nicolaou in

this is taken from the bbc's sunday morning show 'the big questions'.

i was going to pick out a few highlights but really, you need to watch the whole thing - it's only 23 minutes.

seriously, i could feel the bile and frustration rising in my gullet .

nugget

A Science lesson is there to teach what is science, creationism isn't science it is an alternative point of view and therefore should not be taught in science. Schools do not have the unlimited time and resources to teach every single religious perspective, good grief teachers have enough to do. If parents want their children to learn alternative viewpoints they have weekends and evenings to do it in their own time.

77

Should Creationism Ever Be Taught In Schools?

by nicolaou in

this is taken from the bbc's sunday morning show 'the big questions'.

i was going to pick out a few highlights but really, you need to watch the whole thing - it's only 23 minutes.

seriously, i could feel the bile and frustration rising in my gullet .

nugget

I found the programme fascinating some of the religious element especially those in support of creationism came across as extreme and unbalanced making some bizarre statements. This desire to influence children constantly is bordering on the hysterical. Religion is a personnal matter and although it is part of school to educate about society which includes what people in society may believe it is not the role of school to indoctrinate.

Creationism as established in the programme is a viewpoint of some religious people but not all, after all religions cover a wide spectrum of beliefs so to teach just one idea is ludicrous. It is up to each religion to explain their doctrine within their setting, that is their job. School can only cover a very broad view of different beliefs they have neither the time nor the resources to devote to specifics.

School should be a setting where children are taught information and how to examine ideas. School can present facts supported by physical evidence rather than beliefs. Lessons should be presented without an agenda and what teachers believe should not influence how a lesson is taught. A science lesson is not a place to debate religious beliefs that is RE. Pupils need to understand this as well as their parents. Teachers are presenting what has been discovered and what is understood by science in a science lesson.

In a multicultural society it is problematic to try to present everyones point of view without offending someone else. School is not a religious battleground. What parents choose to teach their children and what they expose them to outside the classroom is their choice it is wrong to try to expose all the children in the class to their point of view it is ridiculous and ill judged.

21

I don't love my family

by noontide in

jw
friends

how can i love people that dont really know me?

how can i love people i dont really know?.

thats not love.

nugget

It is little wonder that you have difficulty loving your family, the Watchtower gives us conditional parents and conditional friends. We never know the simple security of unconditional love from our parents. When you make affection conditional on belief and are taught that people can be unworthy of attention and can be cut out from life for minor religious infringements it is a form of protection to reserve love for those that will not withold it based on instructions from outside the relationship. We have a right to be loved for who we are not what we believe, we are a person not a component of a religion,

It is hard to love people who delegate their life choices to an invisible third party. Sadly we were not raised in a family but in an organisation.

62

Well my JW elder dad has lost his job...

by BU2B in

as a little background, my dad became a jw in 1980 i think, went to bethel, married my mom in 86' went back for another year and then i came along... he worked in the auto repair shop at bethel while he was there, and upon leaving, continued working in this field.

my whole life they have been the type of jw parents that tell you how you will never get to high school, never graduate it, never get married in this system, never have children in this system etc.. i say this to illustrate the end is just around the corner attitude they have always had, probably because they fully bought/buy into the hype at the conventions/wt articles.

my father has no plan in place for retirement, and he is physically slowing down doing such hard laborious work.

nugget

It takes a lot of hard work for any arrangement such as this to be successful. If their habits are very different from yours and if they have no intention of contributing to expenses then it is likely to be a disaster that will end with you griping at one another constantly. Even when your goals are the same living in close proximity to others can be frustrating and stressful.

They are approaching your wife thinking that she is the soft option and most likely to be sympathetic. However remember when you have guests your home is not your own, you can never relax. You find that other people's clutter starts filling spaces and that you are being judged on how your spend your time and resources. Be very firm, if your parents are not at the end of their resources and they have the capacity to look after themselves then there is no necessity for you to have them live with you.

Be united and consistent. No they cannot live with you as you cannot afford to fund their lifestyle choice.

37

I think my fade has hit a rut. Do I need to grow a pair?

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

so here i am after about 18 months of wake up.

the first 6 months were a rollercoster of feelings as my whole belief system unravelled.

the last year has been more stable but things seem like they are just stalling now.. my wife is aware of many of my feelings although i have held back the fact that i am pretty close to denying all belief in any kind of god.

nugget

This is your life and only you can decide what you can tolerate and what you can't. It is easy to tell you to force the issue but you are the one living with the consequences of your decisions.

You have several issues, your own well being, the relationship with your wife and the affect of the religion on the children. It is natural in the organisation for a wife to over compensate when a husband starts to draw away from the organisation. Women have a lot invested in the society, often family and friends as well as networks of friends for the children are all tied up with the organisation. This can mean the emotional anxiety is high as if you were to quit then it might jeopardise her friendships and relationships. The intellectual arguments will be less important than the perceived loss of status and friends and it is easier to say Jehovah will sort things out rather than confront issues and risk relationships.

If you wish to continue fading then stopping service is the next step, then reducing meeting attendance further and seeing how it goes. Confrontation may just force her further into the organisation or get her to go to the elders for advice.

53

2014 DC: Fewer, but larger venues in the U.S.

by doinmypart in

jw
friends

in the u.s. there are fewer venues this year, but they will be held in larger facilities.

as long as i can remember my family travelled no more than 2 hours to attend and in the last few years the dc was local (within a few minutes travel).

this year my family is driving 6 hours to a major u.s. city.

nugget

This year if you don't want to go, don't go. 12 hr round trip to sit in a stadium for 3 days is madness. I suspect that there will be quite a few who don't make it.