some my be familiar with the website "revelation online" it is a site that put books online for free, usually in pdf format.
i don't know how they do it, but they have been around for years.
well, i was looking at books today and noticed the truth in translation book.. if you are not familiar with this book you have not been a jw in the past year or two(or living under a rock).
I have the book.
BeDuhn's, Alan Duthie's guide to Bible versions and the Frederick Danker's book (Multi-Purpose Books for Bible Study) are the best books around written by level-headed individuals.
There are plenty of others written by emotionally charged Evangelicals set-out to destroy anyone not agreeing with them. I avoid those.
about 1 year ago (before i faded), i purchased an old king james bible from ebay and started using it in the meetings and when a brother came over to study with me.. a common reaction of fellow jws was to stare at the bible, then say "what type of bible is that?
", then they'd sometimes ask to look at it, and flip to john 1:1. when they saw what it said, they'd treat it like it was apostate material, even though a few decades earler it was the same bible jws used.. i strongly encourage any lurkers/faders to use another bible at the meetings and see what type of reactions you get.. .
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Leolaia said:
"And yet publications of Jehovah's Witnesses have quoted from these versions in the past whenever it suited their purposes"
Leo: I think in this case is because the publishers of The Living Bible and the New Living Translation may have requested not to be quoted by the WT. I can't think of any other reason. Do you?
I'm sure you know about the Johannes Grebber scandals and the WTS, which in my opinion, has been overblown.
so i was doing research on yhwh in the hebrew scriptures.
i see that the wt admits that yahweh is a more accurate hebrew pronunciation of yhwh.. but, is jehovah an acceptable way to translate yahweh into english?
if not, what is the best way to translate yhwh into english?.
Bible translator Joseph Rotherham spent many years singing the virtues of Yahweh over Jehovah. But as he grew older, he changed his mind, and started using Jehovah again. He said in effect that Jehovah is better known and communicates better with modern users.
If the JWs had not made such boisterous noise with the name of Jehovah, many people today would complain far less. Those who insist using LORD only for the Hebrew name might do so out of religious tradition or bias.
some days ago i asked you if someone wrote to prof j. buduhn who is quoted in the watchtower 1 february 1998, p. 32. here's what i received from him.
as every translation does.
jesus one can say "my god.
Julien said: "Just seems very curious. I for one did not find Countess' book "mostly tendentious and disputable". Of course I am not a Greek scholar [tm]."
When an author imputes a claim the WTS never made, and take them to task for it, you could rightly say ‘tendentious and disputable.’ The claim Countess makes in my words is that, ‘the NWT translators have a rule which states that all nouns without the definite article are indefinite, while those that have the article are always definite.’ Not true! The WTS have never published such rule.
A countercult expert, Robert M. Bowman Jr. (no friend of the WTS) says of Countess' book: "Evangelical critique; some good information, but (in my opinion) not entirely accurate." (Jehovah's Witnesses Bibliography)
no doubt there are polyglots on jwn, what do you think the best language to learn is?
spanish, french, german, tagalog or?????.
what language did you find most diffucult to learn, does anyone speak hindi, farsi, arabic or any asian languages?
P.S.
I meant "immerse" yourself in the culture and language you intend to learn, not "submerge" in it.
no doubt there are polyglots on jwn, what do you think the best language to learn is?
spanish, french, german, tagalog or?????.
what language did you find most diffucult to learn, does anyone speak hindi, farsi, arabic or any asian languages?
I agree with those who recommend Spanish. If you know English and Spanish both, you can communicate with a lot more people than with the other languages worldwide. Even here in America, knowing Spanish can get you a job in unexpected places.
Good dictionaries are a must. A Verb conjugator book is also a must. And having similar literature of your choice of the language you intend to learn to compare with English. Hey, the WT literature can help you learn a language. You have the NWT Online in numerous languages to compare Scriptures. Etc...
As others indicated, submerging yourself in the culture will help greatly. Short of moving to another country, one can join an organization, religious or other, and take part in their activities. Practice, practice, practice and after that practice!
Learning a new language is harder than most folks think. It requires lots of discipline and determination. A cursory interest in it won't do it. But the rewards are great! Millions of people prove that when there is a will, there is a way.
romans 1:7. new international version.
"to all in rome who are loved by god and called to be saints: .
grace and peace to you from god our father and from the lord jesus christ.".
This is one more example of various groups going to extremes in thinking. On one hand, the WT uses the expresssion "undeserved kindness" throughout, which in certain contexts (such as John 1:14 and the verse above, Ro 1:7) does not make sense, and in the other, we have some people pulling away from the basic idea of cha'ris, which carries the following idea:
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The New International Dictionary of New Testament Words: “(charis), grace, gracefulness, graciousness, favour, thanks, gratitude” “(charisma), gift given out of goodwill.” (Vol. 2, p. 115)
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James MacArthur: “One of the best-known definitions of grace is only three words: God's unmerited favor."
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William Barclay: “The whole basic idea of the word [cha'risma, closely related to cha'ris] is that of a free and undeserved gift, of something given to a man unearned and unmerited, something which comes from God's grace and which could never have been achieved or attained or possessed by a man's own effort.” (New Testament Words, 1974, p. 63)
"This word [grace] has always two basic ideas in it. (a) It always has the idea of something completely undeserved. [...] (b.) It always has the idea of beauty in it. In modern Greek the word means charm..." (The gospel of John, p. 66, Barclay)
In some Bible contexts, it is acceptable to render it as "undeserved kindness," where as in others it is better to render it, as "gracious favor" "loving kindness" "loving favor," etc. Hence, the biblical advice:
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“ Watch carefully in case any one of you should fall away from God's gracious favour and a resentment develop in him which could contaminate others.” (Hebrews 12:15 , 21 st Century NT)
"Now if it is by undeserved kindness, it is no longer due to works; otherwise, the undeserved kindness no longer proves to be undeserved kindness." (Ro 11:6, NWT)
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“ Consequently, what shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, that undeserved kindness may abound? Never may that happen! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how shall we keep on living any longer in it?” (Romans 6:1,2, NWT)
Thus, it is a good thing to emphasize the positive aspect and beauty conveyed by "grace," but we cannot do away entirely of the Christian responsibility toward God. One group misuses the Greek word to extract more and more from their followers, and the other group hides behind the popular English word "grace" and the expression, "Once saved always saved" to excuse their poor conduct among men. The writings of Paul argue against those extremes. Balance is the key.
after much prayerful consideration, responsible representatives of the "faithful and discreet slave" class have decided to reduce the number of times that the name jesus appears in the main text of the new world translation of the holy scriptures (greek scriptures) from 919 to 79.. the reason for this change is one of the same reasons recently given for the new songbook.
as you may recall, the songbook "sing praises to jehovah" had about half of the songs with jesus as the theme.
in the new songbook, "sing to jehovah", we felt it appropriate for jehovah to be exalted more than jesus so the songbook reflects that balanced view by having 2/3 of the songs praising jehovah and 1/3 to jesus.. the translation committee for the new world translation of the holy scriptures found it appropriate to restore the divine name "jehovah" 237 times in the main text of the christian greek scriptures, this is very disproportionate from the number of times the name "jesus"occurs, which is 919 times in the main text.
tornapart said: "I've noticed more songs in the songbook praising the FDS, GB... Jesus gets barely a look in. I can't sing them. I find it disturbing that Christ is getting increasingly left out. I much prefer the NIV bible to the NWT. At least Christ has his rightful place in it."
I find it disturbing too that Christ is getting increasingly left out in the JWs circle. It is appaling!
About the NIV and the NWT comment, I think both versions are accurate enough, but both push their theological agenda in more than a few places, as is true with most Bible versions. The NIV "evangelical" approach is evident throughout. I still like the NIV a lot, and I feel, that it is one translation that successfully conveys God's Word in a readable manner while staying close to the "original" Text. In that sense, they did an admirable job.
i dont know greek, but cant help wondering what the word "present" in that phrase means.. the borg uses it to mean "what we tell you at this time is true".. i wonder if it means present in the sense of somebody you know being present in the room with you.. "the truth present in our lives" "the truth that is here with us".. just wondering..... hb.
Thank you Leolaia for the excellent summary!
just doing some research on the wt lib cd - - wow, the balls these people have is just unbearable.. .
is not the new world translation of the christian greek scriptures verbose, for instance, in using catches sight of for sees at 1 john 5:16 and undeserved kindness for grace?j.
s., united states.. .
moggy lover:
The aorist and the subjunctive are dealt variably in translation according to the context. There is quite a bit of leeway in translation. In certain contexts, the aorist is best rendered in a punctiliar sense, in others, with a past tense, and so on. The subjunctive does not always require to use "should," "may," etc. in translation.
This tense and mood have brought many a headache to translators. For instance, at John 17:3, some translators render the Greek, "that they may be knowing you" as an infinitive "to know you." It is possible to do so.
At 1 John 5:16, one could say it is not modern English to render it literally: "If ever anyone should see the brother of him sinning..." The expression "If anyone catches sight of his brother sinning" brings out the aorist subjunctive well, in my opinion. Moffat expresses this way: "If anyone notices his brother committing a sin..." Other translators read: "If anyone sees his brother sinning..." All of these readings view the condition as a possibility, without having to use "should," etc. It is virtually impossible to translate aorist subjunctives exactly the same way in a modern translation.
