According to scripture, yes, all are sinners. That is a pretty clear and undisputable bible-based teaching. I do dispute the logic of that statement however. The bible is very clear on what actions, behaviors and thoughts are considered 'sin' and since children have to develop the ability to think and do, I fail to see how a newborn baby is capable of being classed a 'sinner' by bible definitions.
Clearly the propensity to 'sin' is not exclusive to us 'imperfect' humans anyway. Both Adam and Eve found it pretty easy to 'sin' in their perfect conditions. So humans have the innate inclination to do wrong in their 'perfect' or 'imperfect' states. So what's the difference?
pixiesticks
JoinedPosts by pixiesticks
-
17
"ALL Have Sinned!"
by wannabe indoes it sound fair to say that, 'all have sinned?
' when adam first sinned in the garden of eden, was all mankind alive now, with him when he committed his sin?
or many billions of others who have ever lived since adam sinned?
-
-
pixiesticks
-
8
The Watchtower Speaks for Itself
by sd-7 inon the subject of infallibility.... .
***w52 3/15 pp.180-181 are the popes infallible?***.
coming now to the conclusion, we read: again i say, if you decree the infallibility of the present bishop of rome, you must establish the infallibility of all the preceding ones, without excluding any; but can you do that when history is there establishing with a clearness equal only to that of the sun, that the popes have erred in their teaching?
-
-
pixiesticks
Oh, and it hardly needs pointing out, but that article itself is a manipulation. The irony! There is so much inaccurate, misleading information in there and it angers me to think that the Witnesses will just accept it, without reading any books on cults written by actual experts in the field to confirm the accuracy of what they're reading! Another irony is that the Org would disapprove of members reading any 'outside' material on cults!
If it looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck and it waddles like a duck -- It's a duck! -
8
The Watchtower Speaks for Itself
by sd-7 inon the subject of infallibility.... .
***w52 3/15 pp.180-181 are the popes infallible?***.
coming now to the conclusion, we read: again i say, if you decree the infallibility of the present bishop of rome, you must establish the infallibility of all the preceding ones, without excluding any; but can you do that when history is there establishing with a clearness equal only to that of the sun, that the popes have erred in their teaching?
-
-
pixiesticks
Sorry for all the typos in my post! >___<
-
8
The Watchtower Speaks for Itself
by sd-7 inon the subject of infallibility.... .
***w52 3/15 pp.180-181 are the popes infallible?***.
coming now to the conclusion, we read: again i say, if you decree the infallibility of the present bishop of rome, you must establish the infallibility of all the preceding ones, without excluding any; but can you do that when history is there establishing with a clearness equal only to that of the sun, that the popes have erred in their teaching?
-
-
pixiesticks
"This would hardly be the case if Jehovah’s Witnesses were known to use deceptive and unethical techniques to recruit members or if they used manipulative methods to control the minds of their followers."
Rubbish. Many destructive cults opperate freely and without challege from any authority, simply because so few people fully understand what a cult is and, even if they do, how to distinguish a destructive group from a non-destructive group. How the Org can say that they do not use manipulative methods to control their followers is beyond me. The evidence for that is undeniable and overwhelming.If one of America's leading expects in cults and mind control techniques, with over 30 years spent actively exposing destructive cults and exit counselling (hell, an ex-cult member himself), classifies the Jehovah's Witnesses as a destructive cult, then I think it's more than likely that they are, in fact, a destructive cult!
"Obviously, if these methods had been used, there would be an overwhelming number of victims in contradiction to any argument in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses. "There are hardly ever an overwhelming number of victims, particularlly vocal victims, of any cult. Mostly because cults are very good at holding onto their members through the use of extremely effective techniques of mind control!
So for the Witnesses to say, "Cults use manipulative methods to control the minds of their followers" and then, "Obviously, if these methods had been used, there would be an overwhelming number of victims in contradiction to any argument in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses. " is a clear contradiction in itself!
If Witnesses, or any cult, are using effective manipulative methods, then there should not be an overwhelming number of people leaving. There are very, very few destructive cults (if any) that lose a huge number of members without completely imploding or, in the extreme cases, committing mass suicide.
However, I think the sheer number of people on all the various ex-JW forums and websites can attest to the fact that the Witnesses are a group that uses destructive techniques. I've yet to meet and ex-JW that didn't think the Witnesses were a cult. If I didn't know that the Witnesses wrote that article, I would tell author that the clearly knew very little about cults and that the should go away and read 'Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan. -
24
Another JW Report from Haiti - this is sick....
by Bonnie_Clyde inhttp://www.ultimatebiblereferencelibrary.com/haiti_disaster__17.1.10_.pdf .
two paragraphs were really bad:.
"we suspect not a few of our young brothers and sisters attending universities may have died when those buildings crashed to the grounds with everyone in them.
-
-
pixiesticks
Left my own responce on their FB page too. That report made me so angry.
-
3
A Nasty Thought
by God_Delusion inhttp://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/01/dealing-with-dead-baby-bodies-after.html.
sickening, isn't it?
and just think, we were taught to believe in such things!.
-
-
pixiesticks
This is a topic I have had too many arguements with my still indoctrinated parents to count - I had a massive one with them on this subject just yesterday infact. And it's funny, those commonly used arguements listed on that blog ("only God knows what will happen on that day", "we have to trust in him and his judgement because he knows what's best for us as he has proved this in countless situations".) are almost word for word what my parents came back at me with, yet again. They simply employ those mental blocks that save them from having to really process the idea of the horredous things that their so-called "loving" God is supposedly going to bring down upon millions of innocent people, children babies included.
They choose to see it as God saving those he deems worthy, rather than him killing those he doesn't. They reason that humans are destroying the earth anyway, so God is simply providing a lifeboat for all those that want in. Every time I use the word "murder", I'm told "Stop saying murder! God isn't going to murder anyone, he's saving us! Don't think about the one's that will die, think about all those that are going to be saved!"
I try time and time again to show them the glaring flaws in this way of thinking with numerous illustrations and comparissions, but nothing ever seems to sink in. I've all but given up and accepted that they'd rather live a life of blissful ignorance than know the truth.But I hope if somehow this is all true and Armageddon does come, that the Witnesses will be forced to clear the charred and mangled corpses from the streets and have to look at the faces of all the humans that had to die for them to have their everlasting life. I don't know how I'd be able to live with myself and the guilt for the rest of eternity.
-
87
DOES THE BIBLE really really EXIST?
by Terry inthe bible did not exist in jesus' day nor in the lifespan of his apostles.. people didn't walk around with one (bible) tucked under their arm.. christians didn't carry one (bible) door to door for preaching and teaching.. the closest thing to the bible was the septuigint greek translation of hebrew scriptures which not one person in a 10,000 had ever seen!.
creation of the septuagint (wikipedia article).
...in the third century bce[6].
-
-
pixiesticks
Even if you still believe the bible to be the true word of God passed down through the ages, for Witnesses, who rely on the exact phrasing and wording of particular scriptures, key to their prophecies for "the end of the system of things", the fact that the entirety of the NT is on such shaky ground should be of real concern!
-
6
Now That Their Crazy Overlap Doctrine is Out, They Can Promote More GB
by OnTheWayOut inthis overlap stuff is such heavy crap.
i wondered why they had so many changes in the last few years.
it might be because the old guard is in charge and there is a small governing body.
-
-
pixiesticks
It's my sincere hope that by the year 2154, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society will have long since collaped in on itself under the sheer weight of it's own bullsh*t and that humans will live in a world altogether free from the horrors of religious dogma.
The last part might be too much to wish for, but I have my fingers crossed for the demise of the Watchtower at least.
-
18
A Superior Intelligent Creator Of the Universe or Universes Would He Be Emotional?
by frankiespeakin insuppose that a superior intelligence created everything in the universe and for all we know ours could be just one of an infinite number of universes which seems to be very plausible these days but no way of knowing for sure (yet).. would such a creator match up with the personality of the biblical deity?
would such a creator be filled with emotional jealousy over worship given to other deities as false as they may be, and becoming enraged to the point of annihilating those who worshipped albeit false gods.. would his anger blaze over some relics he gave his people to symbolize his presents and they mishandled them like the case of uzzah who tried to steady the ark of the covenant?.
would he get angry at his creation adam& eve who were as the bible says innocent and had no knowledge of good and bad and so ate of the fruit and were kicked out of paradise to suffer and raise offspring doomed to suffer over a trifle that they committed while ignorant and naked?.
-
-
pixiesticks
Excellent points frankiespeakin! And I would be interested to hear PSacramento's answers to you last few questions.
-
3
The sexual "morality" thing
by Quillsky inmy mother got involved with jehovah's witnesses in the 1960s/70s because mainly i think she didn't believe in the sexual "morality" or "immorality" of that era.
i believe she didn't see many other religions speaking out against sex before marriage and abortion.. and so she drew relatives and her own children down into the trap, the morass, the molasses, of anti blood transfusion and end-of-the-world clap-trap thanks to her well-believing sexual morality.. anybody else with family trapped because of the "morality" of jehovah's witnesses?.
-
-
pixiesticks
My father was a Skinhead in the 80s and my mother with an anarchist punk. They both became Witnesses when I was 1 year old, partly because they bought into the "morally pure / good atmosphere for your children" angle and, because I was their first child, they obviously wanted good things for me and knew that their current lifestyle couldn't provide that. As such, I was brought up (and trapped) in the Org with my family.