Elder-Patrol

Joined

• started 0 topics
• posted 49 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Elder-Patrol

• 
  54

  Can you "fornicate" with your marriage mate? I've heard the WTBTS says that you can. Is this true?

  by ultrabimbo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is it true that the current thinking of jehovah's witnesses is that you can "fornicate" with your marriage mate if you engage in sexual activity that is not approved by the writing department at bethel?

  what are some examples?.

  ultrabimbo.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  The answer is unequivocally: No. Consenting sexual activity involving only a husband and wife cannot constitute "fornication" according to JWs.

  Within a marriage, oral sex and anal sex are merely "uncleanness" (similar to the use of profanity or viewing of soft-core pornography). Officially, Jehovah's Witnesses eschew all uncleanness. Unofficially, a couple who occasionally dabble in the practices are expected to work on their own to overcome it. They can involve elders but they don't need to and it's not judicial.

  Only eventually, such as if one spouse continues to force it upon the other, the harasser may be considered guilty of the serious sin of "gross uncleanness with greediness". Another hypothetical would be if either or both spouses seem to advocate the practices, then they may be considered guilty of the serious sin of "loose conduct" (that is, a brazen disregard for propriety). Neither form of serious sin allows divorce with the possibilty of remarriage, per JWs.

  The fact that someone heard something from some elder somewhere is worse than useless information, since there's both hearsay and a good chance the original hick elder was wrong anyway. A recent letter to elders says that judicial committees continue to try to disfellowship people for soft-core pornography, even though in most cases it isn't considered a serious sin (the branch reverses disfellowshippings like that). Also, the Flock book clearly states that the victim of rape has not committed fornication; the fact that they have to spell out something so obvious is strong evidence that certain elders are so ignorant it's scary.
• 
  13

  If I become a JW will I have to go door to door?

  by Darth plaugeis in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  of course not.

  no one forces you to do that, it's totally your decision.. lol remember that!

  !.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  Yes and no.

  JWs allow any type of formal or informal ministry to be equally reportable. However, door-to-door has a special place in the Witness mindset and it will soon seem odd to others if a publisher seems to continually find excuses to avoid it altogether.

  Though it's arguable, the scriptures certainly tend to support the idea of door-to-door evangelizing. After all, how can you shake the dust off your feet at an unwelcoming house if you never approach any houses?

  (Matthew 10:14) Wherever anyone does not take you in or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city shake the dust off your feet.
• 
  4

  JW mother or not?

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  over the next 15 years, police checked in with sagala each year and sent her a questionnaire, but she had no new information.

  she said she periodically tried to contact her estranged husband's friends and family in mexico with no luck.. eventually, sagala said she tried to move on with her life.

  she started a long-term relationship withanother man, gave birth to two more children a girl and a boy and threw herself into worship at her jehovah's witness church.. sagala tried to recreate the life she lost with her first two when her new babies arrived: she gave birth at the same hospital, incorporated parts of their names in her new children's names and dressed them in the same tiny outfits she had saved.. "i went to church, i prayed, because as a mother, i'm not strong enough for the burden i have now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  No, she couldn't have become baptized JW or a JW publisher while "living in sin".

  Although... non-publishers can worship at Kingdom Halls, and the journalist may have "translated" the woman's words poorly; for example, the Spanish word "cumpleaños" can mean any special dates (not NECESSARILY birthdays).
• 
  11

  bethel rooms for rent

  by DaCheech in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there was a letter posted on the congregation bulletin board.. it said that one can plan and put an application to rent brooklyn rooms for up to 3 days?.

  anyone know the details?.

  is contribution necessary?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  My understanding is that the buildings must be heated, cooled, plumbed, and powered anyway. In addition, the support work justifies keeping that many more Bethelites aboard who might otherwise be assigned back to the field.

  Rooms are available to baptized and unbaptized publishers and their minor kids.

  The form for Patterson says:
  "There is a suggested donation of $40 to $60 per night per room. Donations may be made in any of the provided contribution boxes at the time of your visit. Donations by check should be payable to “Watchtower.”"
  
  The form for Brooklyn doesn't mention any specific amount. It says:
  "If any desire to make a donation, this may be placed in any of the provided contribution boxes at the time of your visit. Donations by check should be payable to “Watchtower.”"
• 
  58

  Has anyone heard of the elders being called independent agents. Spoke to a brother in the Legal department and he called them that.

  by life is to short in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wondering if anyone has ever heard of elders being referred to as independent agents before.

  i called the legal department and spoke to an older brother about the child molesters in my hall about a month ago.

  he did not want to speak to me because i am just a stupid sister but he did finally agree and that was one point he made.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  Legally speaking, congregation elders have ALWAYS been "independent agents", and not just among JWs. For centuries, both "congregational" (everyone votes for new elders) and "presbyterian" (elders vote for new elders) style of organization marked an important distinction from Catholicism.

  Ironically, the legal theory behind lawsuit damages is that they tend to make others (including congregation elders) more aware of how they can and should behave. The fact that so few elders are successfully sued means either that they are well trained or well behaved or both. That meets the needs of larger society, even if it saddens litigious folks.
• 
  31

  Time to go from Ministerial Servant to Elder

  by garlic81 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what is the shortest timeframe you've seen for one to go from ministerial servant to an elder if he:.

  is on good terms with all elders and the circuit overseer.gives the co a green handout to help out with his expenses on each visit.has the co over for a meal each visit.has phone number and email of co and communicates at least every other month - just to chat about how things are going, good service experiences, etc.

  (as any other friend would.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  One year, and that time frame happens all the time.

  These lists of résumé items are useless, they don't actually ADD to a servant's qualifications. All they do is REDUCE the argument that the servant may have certain DISqualifications.
• 
  13

  Substitute Circuit Overseer

  by garlic81 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after being appointed an elder how what is the shortest timeframe you have seen to be accepted as a substitute circuit overseer?.

  elder has 2-3 years of regular pioneering and averages 80-140 hours per month.person has been an elder for 1-2 years.elder has completed at least one temporary bethel assignment, or temporary special pioneer assignment.elder has gone to pioneer service school.elder has gone to school for congregation elders.family has written the branch for an assignment in an area of greater need and is currently serving in one of those areas.gives the co a green handout to help out with his expenses on each visit.has the co over for a meal each visit.has phone number and email of co and communicates at least every other month - just to chat about how things are going, good service experiences, etc.

  (as any other friend would.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  It's extraordinarily difficult to become a full circuit overseer. Not so for a substitute CO, since they are graded on a much different "curve". The damage they can do is limited, and at least one is needed for every circuit!
  
  So if the best available elder in the circuit is 25 year old Mogli, then Mogli is it. He'll notice that 90% of the time they bring in a sub from the neighboring circuit, but Mogli is still the quote unquote "substitute CO" (in a pinch) for his circuit.
• 
  59

  At a loss what to do RE: JW family and my kids

  by 2pink in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have 2 small kids, ages 4 and 5 yrs and one on the way (via adoption!).

  my husband and i faded/suddenly disappeared last fall, never to go back to meetings.

  we outed ourselves and told our super hardcore parents/family members that we didn't believe it anymore, were choosing a different path etc.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  I'm not inclined to assume the worst about JWs, but the fact remains that any JW will see his commitment to evangelism as a higher commitment than pleasing a family member. Grandma certainly shouldn't promise one thing and do another, but it will likely be impossible for her to keep silent about her faith whatever her earlier promises.

  The child will learn nothing useful under mother's apron strings, and at some point will benefit from other perspectives. Consider:

  Explain to the child the basics of a few belief systems: spirits in trees (aka animism), or hundreds of gods (aka mythologies).

  Explain some basics of what Grandma believes.

  Explain to the child that of hundreds of belief systems, most (all?) are wrong, and why.

  Explain that a civilized person is respectful of others' beliefs, but he can also ask others to be respectful of his beliefs.

  Explain that it is respectful to say, "I'm not comfortable discussing this. Can we talk about something else?"
• 
  12

  Female Elders, have you heard anything?

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. jw
  2. friends
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  I know folks here aren't necessarily interested, but there just seems no scriptural basis for female elders. You can't blame that on misogyny in Brooklyn.

  There might be a scriptural basis for female ministerial servants, but IMHO the argument is weak. Some Christian denominations have female deacons, but almost none have female elders.

  If you look back at old publications, C. T. Russell initially agreed that a congregation could appoint a capable sister as a "deaconess", but later he wrote that only males could be appointed deacons.

  JW publications already tell older women to counsel younger women.
• 
  31

  YMCA now I am mad!!!

  by loosie in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i talked to a current jw today and he told me that it came out in print from the wtbts that you can be a memebr of the ymca as long as you don't associate with the other worldlys that go there..

  omg!!!

  just a few years ago i was told that i couldn't be at the ymca because it was a christian org.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Elder-Patrol

  I'd guess a person claiming he was disfellowshipped for swimming at a YMCA is leaving out some details, even if he was stuck with a judicial committee of incompetents (which is possible). The 1979 Watchtower made a distinction between those who pay an admission fee and and those who join/endorse/become members of YMCA.
  
  *** w79 1/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
  In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. ...Hence, for one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called “Christian” association would amount to apostasy. Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others. ...Thus, it is because of their understanding of what God expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the YMCA are, that Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of that organization.
  
  I never heard of a YMCA insisting that pool patrons agree to any membership. I told them I wasn't comfortable "joining" the YMCA but I was happy to pay the fees; they genuinely could not have cared less if I "joined" or "became a member" or just paid the pool dues. I know others did the same.
  
  Now, especially since the 1990s, hundreds of formerly mismanaged municipal pools are managed by YMCA. So, the local government owns the pool, taxpayers mostly fund the pool, and an experienced organization simply manages the pool and collects use fees. It would be foolish for anyone to hesitate to use the pool which his own taxes had paid for, despite what the signs at the pool may say.
  
  Anyway, as of 2010 the word "Christian" is no longer part of their official name or mission. I think someone above mentions this; now it's just "The Y".
  http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hMncGyDr-eGcursFPS6tSKHuiKUgD9GTSQB80