Thanks for the recap!
I found it bizarre that they used the phrase "discreet and wise" as this is usually applied to the faithful slave. Maybe Timmy can start partaking of the emblems now that he's proven to be discreet and wise?
Posts by pirata
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47Sunday Drama-"Young Ones-Be Discreet and Wise"
by CaptainSchmideo ini briefly touched on the drama in another post, but i felt i needed to share in greater detail this latest masterpiece.. .
this was the drama on sunday.
the story alternates between the story of joseph, son of jacob, and a witness kid (forgot his name;billy?
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The Bible is full of violence.Why are JW's told to avoid anything related to it then?
by XPeterX inin exodus jehovah killed the egyptians.ahud stabbed eglon in his abdomen,people in a city (don't remember which one) would eat their own children,jw's back then sacrificed their babies to moloch and the list goes on.so why jw's have to avoid books,music,movies which contain violence?
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pirata
Violence can be analyzed historically, or for entertainment, or both. JWs and Christians in general teach against enjoying violence as entertainment, at least paying lip service to the idea. Usually gets thrown out the window once a movie, game or show starts.
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Who wants to help put together the ultimate Watchtower Index Wiki?
by pirata inpresenting: wtindex.info.
there are a great deal of watchtower publication references available on a number of sites, and on this forum, but it takes a lot of searching, digging, and reading to find them.. i have put together a wiki that currently catalogs:.
1) subject references for watchtower publications (from 1800s to present), in an organized and clear way.. 2) the sources of quotations (with context) used in watchtower publications.
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pirata
It's satan, err, jay hoover sabotaging things, like he did at the nimrod's office tower.
I was wondering why my laptop was flying around the room, making it very difficult to type... ha ha. j/k.
Turns out it was actually user error . My screen was not scrolled down far enough to see the "send" button at the bottom, so I was clicking on the "sent messages" button at the top (which for some reason my brain was reading as "Send message"). Doh!
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pirata
burnedout, welcome!
A couple threads you may be interested in:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/210510/2/Seeking-suggestions-on-reaching-my-wife
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Litmus Test Blood and Lee Elder
by Marvin Shilmer inlitmus test blood and lee elder.
today i uploaded a new article on my blog that shares a litmus test, which in this case tells the witness community that the director, lee elder, of the organization associated jehovahs witnesses for reform on blood an is not an apostate.
my guess is that this bit of news will surprise more than a few web-based watchtower apologists.
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pirata
Thanks Marvin! Great entry.
Footnote 2 seems to be cut off. You might also want to indicate who Paul Wade is in the main text, otherwise the argument is not very clear.
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Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)
by camicia ini'm really distraught about the fact my 23 year old daughter is ready to abandon a potential career in writing where her talent lies, and become a jehovah's witness.
i banned the study being held in our home, but it only hurt my relationship with my daughter, who screamed at me "i pay to live here and i'm not hiding, you're sabotaging my relationship with god!
" so i gave in.
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pirata
Direct opposition will likely not work. I know a guy whose parents were not happy when he quit University to get baptized and pioneer. He was not allowed to return to live at home unless he stopped being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It seems he was struggling for a while, so they were likely hoping that this would be enough to change his mind. All it seemed to do was feed the persecution complex.
Continue to support her and let her know that you care about her and want her to understand all sides of the subject before she makes her decision. Above all, emphasize that she's still your daughter no matter what. Emphasize that whatever decision she makes, you'll still love her and still be her mother. Contrast this with the disfellowshipping arrangement where a former JW family member is shunned when they change their beliefs.
If she is willing, ask her to read "Crisis of Conscience", available as a PDF from (http://www.commentarypress.com/Publication/English.html) or as a book on freeminds.org. Offer to read it together (reserve judgement and commentary if you can, she should be able to come to a conclusion on her own). I say to offer to read it together, because if she is wishy-washy she may not have the incentive to read it on her own, but still be willing to do it with you. It is written by a former Governing Body member. The author (Raymond Franz) shows no bitterness, still loves the Bible and God, and does not try to push the reader into another belief system.
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What if your Significant Other wanted to become a JW?
by Dune intoday, i was ambushed by a pair of witnesses while leaving my apartment.
they offered me a magazine, to which i declined, but gave the latest awake & watchtower to my girlfriend.
at our next stop, i took the magazines, rolled them up and was about to toss them when she told me that she wanted to read them.
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pirata
Dune, don't worry. If she is your girlfriend and wants to become a JW, dumping her worldly boyfriend would be one of the prerequisites to getting baptized. It would take care of itself.
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110
2011 District a$$embly - We cant wait. The board is abuzz WHAT NOOLITE?
by hamsterbait inthe first summer a$$embly finishes this weekend.. tell tell!.
who are the toes.
the verrucas and fungus?.
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pirata
@TheLoveDoctor,
The light is flickering once again! Thanks for tying it together so nicely.
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Real Jehovah's Witnesses (djeggnog, StandFirm, etc), I'm trying to understand you.
by pirata ini'm an active jehovah's witness.
i've obviously lost my faith, that's why i don't feel bad posting here anymore.
i'd probably be disfellowshipped as a division causing, teaching, apostate, faster than you can say "maher-shalal-hash-baz" (isaiah 8:1), should it be found out that i was posting here and did not repent of the things i've said and stop participating in this forum.
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pirata
@Maze
StandFirm informed me he didn't like the forum and likely will not be posting here again. The Watchtower Society may encourage the wise use of a person's time, but I haven't noticed the discouragement of research outside the Society's publications because the Governing Body fears outside influences. That type of thinking is the thought process that Jehovah's Witnesses are under the umbrella of mind control. This is science fiction as there's no scientific theory, let alone, evidence for “mind control.” Some substitute mind control for loyalty to God or loyalty to a cause they disagree with. The reason the Watchtower Society discourages interacting with apostates is because of the effects of bad association, not because their “secrets” have any real merit.
I'm sorry to see StandFirm go. It's good to hear both sides of the story.
I am going to concede a bit to my initial insertion that the Watchtower society discourages research outside the publications. I could not find any explicit statements saying not to do so. My impression of the counsel quoted by Anthony Mous a few pages back is that more than enough is provided by the Faithful Slave, so there's no need to go beyond that. But, I'm glad you brought it up as I will be less shy about mentioning "other resources" with fellow witnesses in the future and see how things go from there.
I really don't think this is an issue of "mind control", per se (nor was it my intent to assert that) It's more an issue of "information control". Whether or not a person feels that apostate's arguments have merit, the current direction to stay away from apostate information addresses the symptoms (planting doubts) and not the underlying causes (the issues that bring rise to the doubts). If the "secrets" do not have any real merit, they why not discuss them regularly if this will prevent even one sheep from straying from the flock?
Bad association. Well yes. But worldly people are considered bad association, but there is no direction to shun them. There is more to it than just bad association. The issue is also presented as one of "loyalty". But I do not think this is the best approach to deal with opposing information. For example, imagine a wife suspects that her husband is cheating on her. Let's assume the husband is innocent. The husband could either (1) Find out why she feels that way, and provide as much evidence as possible to prove that the assertion is untrue, or 2) Remind her that she should be loyal to him and not question his fidelity as he has been a good provider all these years. Also threaten to kick her out of the house if she does not stop believing that he cheated on her. Which approach do you think will be more effective at allaying her concerns?
Why do you attend meetings if you've "lost your faith."
A good question. As I replied in your "undercover apostates" thread, My immediate family and spouse are all believing Jehovah's Witnesses. At this point in my life, the value of those relationships are more important to me than my freedom to express my beliefs (or lack thereos). So I just keep quiet, and deal with the situation. I don't want to rush into any potentially disastrous decisions.
Now if I may ask a question of you. You have stated in other threads that you have been associated with JWs for over 30 years, that you initially started researching JWs because your wife was studying with them, and that you needed access to the Watchtower Library 2010, and that you enjoy religious and political debate.. This implies to me that you are not currently a Jehovah's Witness. You seem to agree with their teachings though, is it because you enjoy being the devil's advocate or you really believe it? If you really believe it, why haven't you become one?
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110
2011 District a$$embly - We cant wait. The board is abuzz WHAT NOOLITE?
by hamsterbait inthe first summer a$$embly finishes this weekend.. tell tell!.
who are the toes.
the verrucas and fungus?.
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pirata
e-watchman has an interesting take on it here (published May 5, 2011): http://e-watchman.com/jehovahs-witnessesback-page/2011/5/5/new-light-at-2011-district-convention-of-jehovahs-witnesses.html