Posts by MessianicChristian

11

The Ransom Sacrifice -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

the sacrifice of jesus simplified suggestion.

many christians have different theories about exactly how the ransom sacrifice (also called the atonement or the passion) of christ worked.. just how did jesus death on the cross 2,000 years ago provide us with salvation, forgiveness, and eternal life?.

some christians believe that jesus somehow mystically experienced the full pain and suffering of eternal torment in hell (for every persons sin who has ever lived), during the 3 hours of darkness when he was hanging upon the cross.

MessianicChristian

the mechanism of abiogenesis has not been solved ... evolution in no way depends on abiogenesis

So how is abiogenesis a solution to anything.

Every living thing evolved from a common ancestor through evolution by natural selection.

This a belief which has no support in nature.

Nothing can evolve through natural selection because nature cannot selected what does not already exist, and if an organ or a trait already exist then there is no need for it to evolve. Evolution through natural selection is circular reasoning to the point of ridiculousness. It is the equivalent of an evolutionary biologist trinity doctrine. Metaphysics, mystery, maybe, but certainly not science.

Endosymbiosis is the key to this question. It was proposed by the late Lynne Margulies.

Evolutionist have been proposing since 1859 and still have not identified a natural process that can account for the existence of life nor is there any known natural process by means of which single cell organisms can evolve into multi-cellular organisms, nor is there any 'evolutionary reason' why they should,since single cell organisms reproduce and survive in greater numbers than multi-cellular organisms .

The so-called fact of evolution is a fantasy construct and evolutionary biologists have as much credibility as the Watchtower Society for exactly the same reason. That is, constantly coming with claims that have no demonstrable validity in nature.

I have been reading science texts since 1968 so don't play yourself with the fantasy that you are a superior intellect dealing with an inferior intellect. You would probably be better off posting non-sense about the earth not being flat and the sun not revolving around our planet.

19

One hope for ALL christians - interesting video on heavenly hope

by paradisebeauty in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n7qe6fqac4.

a short video with proof from the bible that the ones going to "heaven" are not meant to stay there forever, but just to meet jesus there (at the rapture) and be with him forever, on earth, not in heaven!.

MessianicChristian

Jehovah's Witnesses are unitarians.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all of the prophets of Israel from Moses to John were Unitarian.

Jesus was / is a unitarian and all of his apostles and early disciples both Jewish and not Jewish were unitarians.

Karaite and Talmudic Jews are unitarians.

Everyone who believe the teaching of the scriptures that there a Creator who is an individual person / being is a unitarian.

Scripture based Judaism is a unitarian faith.

Scripture based Christianity is a unitarian faith.

Trinitarianism / tri - theism is a pantheistic - polytheistic doctrine construct from Gnostic - Platonic - Stoic metaphysics and theology by Gnostic - Platonic - Stoic theologians from Valentinian to the Council of Calcedon circa 451 AD.

If the scriputures teach a trinity doctrine how come no one knew about it until the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD. [The so-called Nicean Creed dates from the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD.]

The Watchtower hides the history and the identity of unitary monotheist Christian groups from the Witnesses to pretend that only Jehovah's Witnesses acknowledge Jehovah / YahWeh as God.

So to tick off the pantheistic - polytheistic tri-theistic trinitarians and the Watchtower organization at the same time:

Christian - Unitary Monotheist Churches / Ministries:

Church of God General Conference / Atlanta Bible College : www.abc-coggc.org

Raymond C. Faircloth, former Jehovah's Witness : www.biblicaltruthseekers.co.uk

Eric H H Chang former trinitarian : www.christiandiscipleschurch.org;

Christian Monotheism - A Call to Return to the Creed of Jesus : www.christianmonotheism.com;

J Dan Gill 21 Century Reformation : www.21stcr.org;

Living Hope International Ministries: http://lhim.org

My favorite:

Sir Anthony Buzzard, 3rd Baronet

Restoration Fellowship : www.focusonthekingdom.org;

Abrahamic Movement Channel : http://www.youtube.com/user/AbrahamicMovement

Jesus Is Still A Jew : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQe7WBXpufI

24

The Weed AMONG the wheat ..NOT.."the weed overgrowed the wheat" Misunderstood parabel about anointed and about Gods patience

by TheWonderofYou in

referring to tim3l0rd who posted 12 days ago following message (see below) and the postings in which the "scattered" non organised anointed from 100 ce - 1900 ce are discussed, and the parabel of the weed among the wheat, i found out that it is not necessary at all that a "slave class" of anointed does itself distincts frome the weed , founds a new separated church,declares itself clean and holy, and begins a denunciating and destructive unnecessary harvesting.

the slave class of anointed should have better remained in the church and waited for jesus judgement.basis: .

tim310rd wrote: this goes along with the 2013 wt that changed the definition of the fdsl.

MessianicChristian

What bothers me about them is their exclusivism, interdictions to visit other churches / christian meetings, and other unbiblical interdictions. (And the fact that if you suddenly start partaking they think you are crazy).

I left the Watchtower Organization 31 years ago after being active from 1971 to 1984. Even though I endured abusive treatment by some elders in 2 congregations I left without anger, hostility or rage [ with much hurt ] against the institution or the individuals in it. I also left in good standing. So I am not a Watchtower or Witness hater.

I reject the description of the Watchtower Organization as brainwashing minding controlling cult and I reject the lies that there is more mental illness and other disfunctional behaviors among Witnesses than among the general population. All such studies are done by persons who have a personal bias religions in general or a specific animosity against Witnesses.

The primary problem is that the Watchtower Organization is an authoritarian institution [since J F Rutherford took over in 1917] and is therefore obsessed with control and with loyalty of members to the organization. This is common to all authoritarian institutions, however it is especially a problem for Christian religious institution and their hierarchies because Christian teachers are supposed to be under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If Christian teachers are lacking in humility they find it especially difficult and troubling to admit fundamental doctrinal errors.

If the Watchtower Organizations Governing Body decided to come clean and acknowledge all of its' abuses and doctrinal errors from 1917 until the present and did this with humility and with a repentant attitude most Witnesses would remain in the organization and many who have left would return. Being human and proud, that is lacking in humility, the Governing Body is currently engaged in another effort to adjust and manage their false teachings and abusive practices.

All of the Watchtower's fundamental doctrinal errors are plagiarized from the Anglicans, Adventists, Catholics, Evangelicals and Lutherans and should be easy to repudiate. Of course admitting this would be admitting that they were not being directed by Jehovah.

I've been thinking lately: should I stay in the org and just believe what I believe?

As for as leaving is concerned I would say leave if and when you have someplace better to go.

If you are a person of faith in Jehovah, Jesus and in the scriptures beware of those who urge you to leave because of their anger, rage, hostility or hurt. They have no problem making you collateral in their personal vendetta.

24

The Weed AMONG the wheat ..NOT.."the weed overgrowed the wheat" Misunderstood parabel about anointed and about Gods patience

by TheWonderofYou in

referring to tim3l0rd who posted 12 days ago following message (see below) and the postings in which the "scattered" non organised anointed from 100 ce - 1900 ce are discussed, and the parabel of the weed among the wheat, i found out that it is not necessary at all that a "slave class" of anointed does itself distincts frome the weed , founds a new separated church,declares itself clean and holy, and begins a denunciating and destructive unnecessary harvesting.

the slave class of anointed should have better remained in the church and waited for jesus judgement.basis: .

tim310rd wrote: this goes along with the 2013 wt that changed the definition of the fdsl.

MessianicChristian

The parable of the weeds among the wheat is a prophetic parable since it concerns what will happen to the disciples from the ministry of Jesus until the harvest at the end of the age.

Most of Jesus' parables of the Kingdom are prophetic parables applicable to all disciples not to a supposed special class of disciples.

The fact that the parable is intentionally misinterpreted to promote the fiction of a faithful servant class, the fiction of a governing body appointed by Jesus and the fiction of a none-existent God's organization / Jehovah's organization, does not nullify the parable.

The only disciples single out as a special group are " the twelve apostles ".

Jesus established an ecclesia, an institutional church, at Jerusalem on Pentecost when he baptized the 120 disciples including the twelve apostles with the Holy Spirit. The Twelve apostles, the apostle Paul, Jesus' brothers James and Jude and others kept the ecclesia safe from false teachers up until the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66 AD.

The church that appears in the second century is a Middle Platonic church calling itself "apostolic, catholic, and orthodox. This Middle Platonic church has rejected the Jewish disciples and anathematized [cursed] them as heretics [including Jesus' relatives who were still active in the Jewish ecclesia / church].

To separate themselves from the Jewish disciples and the Jews in general this Middle Platonic church removed the name of God from all copies of the LXX that they made , they also reject the Jewish Messiah, Jesus and constructed a Christology worshiping a Gnostic - Platonic - Stoic demiurge as a logos entity supposedly incarnate in Jesus, and imported other pantheistic - polytheistic doctrines into their faith.

The apologists, church fathers, hermits, monks, theologians of this church are in no sense faith disciples of Jesus nor are they in any sense worshiping the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ in spirit and truth.

The abuses, atrocities, burning of persons alive, enslavement, genocides, idolatries, immoralities, inquisitions, murders, oppression, pogroms, racism, terrorisms tortures and war perpetrated in the name of Jesus Christ by the Churches calling themselves apostolic, catholic and / or orthodox proves that the institutional churches, both Catholic and Protestant, and others, have functioned as agents of Satan from the second century until the 21st century.

The Watchtower Organization for all of its' abuses is less than a flea on the back of an elephant when compared to crimes against God, crimes against Christ, and crimes against humanity committed by the churches of Christendom over the past 19 centuries.

It is within this context that the wheat and the weeds grow together until the harvest in fulfillment of Jesus' prophetic parable.

The separation is at the Harvest, the harvest is the end of the age. This is when Jesus arrives, returns, descends to grant immortality to his faithful disciples and judge those who do evil in his name will professing to be his disciples as well as those who oppose his right to rule over the earth.

There is no one true church as an identifiable institutional entity between the death of the apostles and the return of Jesus to rule the earth.

24

The Weed AMONG the wheat ..NOT.."the weed overgrowed the wheat" Misunderstood parabel about anointed and about Gods patience

by TheWonderofYou in

referring to tim3l0rd who posted 12 days ago following message (see below) and the postings in which the "scattered" non organised anointed from 100 ce - 1900 ce are discussed, and the parabel of the weed among the wheat, i found out that it is not necessary at all that a "slave class" of anointed does itself distincts frome the weed , founds a new separated church,declares itself clean and holy, and begins a denunciating and destructive unnecessary harvesting.

the slave class of anointed should have better remained in the church and waited for jesus judgement.basis: .

tim310rd wrote: this goes along with the 2013 wt that changed the definition of the fdsl.

MessianicChristian

The parable of the "Faithful servant" is a prophecy concerning Jesus appointing / commissioning the disciples that he personally taught. Jesus appointed these disciples during his 40 days of teaching them between his resurrection and ascension. This commission applies to all disciples until Jesus arrives at the end of this age. The parable does not concern 2 servants, only 1.

The reward or punishment takes place after his master,Jesus arrives / returns. The faithful is appointed over all of the masters belonging. What belongs to the master Jesus is his kingdom - his rulership over all of the earth. That is the faithful servant is appointed to rule over humanity - those who are not disciples - who survive the great tribulation.

All who put faith in Jesus, the man that God made Lord and Christ / Messiah [ see Acts 2:36 ] , before his return to establish his Kingdom; and in the Good News / Gospel of the Kingdom of God / Heaven that Jesus and his apostles preached [ see Acts 28:31 ] and are baptized in the name of Jesus

are anointed and are baptized with the spirit, are born again - born from above - born of the spirit, are in the New Covenant, are in union with Christ, are of the body of Christ, are adopted as 'sons of God'.

All who put faith in Jesus and in the Good News / Gospel of the Kingdom have the opportunity to rule with Jesus in his Kingdom during the 1000 years.

There is no mention anywhere in scripture of a 'Faithful servant class'. There is no mention anywhere in scripture of a governing body. There is no mention anywhere in scripture of God's organization / Jehovah's organization. The word 'organization' is not in the scriptures. There is no mention anywhere in scripture of an anoint remnant. There is no such thing as an anointed remnant of Christians.

All faithful disciples of Jesus will be saved,not just a remnant.

The remnant to be saved in the end time [ at the end of this age ] is a remnant of the 'sons of Israel'; the Jews who accept the Messiah as a result the witnessing of the 2 witness at Jerusalem during the 3 and 1/2 years of the great tribulation.

11

The Ransom Sacrifice -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

the sacrifice of jesus simplified suggestion.

many christians have different theories about exactly how the ransom sacrifice (also called the atonement or the passion) of christ worked.. just how did jesus death on the cross 2,000 years ago provide us with salvation, forgiveness, and eternal life?.

some christians believe that jesus somehow mystically experienced the full pain and suffering of eternal torment in hell (for every persons sin who has ever lived), during the 3 hours of darkness when he was hanging upon the cross.

MessianicChristian

Biblical faith is not the belief that we can overcome death it is rather the belief that there is a Creator and life giver with the ability to recreate - resurrect us as living organisms / persons from death, and that he has appointed a savior, a man [human] who has already overcome death.

if evolution is factual and therefore man was not created but evolved

is the big IF since there is no known natural process that can account for the existence of life nor is there any known natural process by means of which single cell organisms can evolve into multi-cellular organisms. s

We increasingly depend on the technologies which scientific determinations have made and which humanistic thought and practice such as found in democracy and putting human needs first; has resulted in happier lives and welfare for the many.

Wait until the Arabs, China, India, Iran, Japan, Russia, and Turkey, get up to speed on drone technology and genetic engineering and AI / Robotics.

As an American I can tell you that no one with a functioning brain should trust the long term intentions of the corporate oligarchs in the USA, who by the way control our elections and our elected representatives.

It is a fact that most of the problems of the world can be solved using current technologies but those who control the tech are competing to become the wealthiest corporate and hedge fund oligarchs.

The billionaires will be competing to become trillionaires.

If the Bible isn't true I seriously doubt that Western European pragmatism will be of much use in the probable the brave new world of Soylent Green, Blade Runner, the Wrath of Khan, Contagion and I Am Legend.

Technology will not save us from technology.

Neither evolution by natural selection nor evolution by punctuated equilibrium nor evolution by any other science-fantasy construct fabricated by evolutionary biologists save us. If the world becomes unlivable we will not evolve we will become extinct.

Humanistic thought and practise will not save us even though most of humanity are not persons of ill will, the ambitious few will always seek wealth and power and glory / fame at the expense of the many and they will more likely than not carry us over the precipice.

I am a person of faith and so I have hope for those who are faithful in this age and for those who are recreated / resurrected in the next age.

67

Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?

by TerryWalstrom in

the purpose of this topic is twofold.. first, any who are endlessly fascinated by scholarship, practised by genuine bible scholars, are urged by me to do what i did, subscribe to bart ehrman's blog.

the subscription money (as little as $3.95) goes entirely to charity.. secondarily, by broadening our view of the new testament era on up through two millennia to the present day, our knowledge of all things 'christian' is deepened to include actual knowledge (as opposed to watchtower fabrication.

by this i don't mean to imply you'll fall to your knees and get saved, but rather, you'll simply have facts to inform your present transitional mindset toward whatever end you finally choose.. now .

MessianicChristian

The Bible makes it clear that the forefathers of the nation of Israel ,Terah, Abraham, etc., worshiped others gods [Joshua 24:2].

The Most High God called Abram away from his land and his family and made a covenant with him. It could be that the Most High God that called Abram to worship him exclusively as the Creator - the only existing God was the same God worshiped by the Semetic nations as El the High God of their pantheon.

If the Most High God is the god worshiped by the Semetic nations as El then the problem would be that the Semetic nations had created other 'none existing' gods to worship alongside Him. This would account for the Most High God, if he is in fact El, calling Abram away from a pantheistic - polytheistic system to worship the Most High God exclusively.

It is also possible that the name / title El functions the way that elohim does and is not exclusive to any one god.

Polytheism is the multiplying of gods. The fact that people have invented many gods to worship does not mean [is not evidence ] that 1 Creator, 1 God does not actually exist.

God's acknowledging that people worship many gods as is done in the 1st commandment is not acknowledging that many gods actually exist.

"You must not have any other gods besides me" is not an acknowledgment that the gods worshiped by polytheists are real beings / gods that actually exist.

The Hebrew nation, descended from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob / Israel were commanded - taught to worship only one God and were taught the this God was the Creator and therefore the only God in existence. For a time the nations from Abraham's by his wife Keturah also worshiped the God of Abraham but eventually took up polytheism from the surrounding nations.

The Bible texts states that the nation of Israel intermarried with the Canaanite nations and worshiped their gods and the gods of the surrounding nations from the generation after their coming into the land of Canaan under Joshua until the Babylonian exile.

Scholars are aware of this but because of their atheistic and career agendas they prefer to misinterpret the artefactual data to support the pretense that this is evidence that the nation of Israel was originally polytheistic.

The claim that Hebrew monotheism developed from [1] polytheism to [2] henotheism to [3] monotheism is a 19th century ideological construct with neither archeological nor historical foundation. The natural progression would be for people to conceive of 1 god and add other gods with different functions over time.

Claiming that people worshiped many gods before they worshiped 1 god makes as much sense as claiming the people conceive of the number 100 or the number 1000 before they conceived of the number 1.

67

Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?

by TerryWalstrom in

the purpose of this topic is twofold.. first, any who are endlessly fascinated by scholarship, practised by genuine bible scholars, are urged by me to do what i did, subscribe to bart ehrman's blog.

the subscription money (as little as $3.95) goes entirely to charity.. secondarily, by broadening our view of the new testament era on up through two millennia to the present day, our knowledge of all things 'christian' is deepened to include actual knowledge (as opposed to watchtower fabrication.

by this i don't mean to imply you'll fall to your knees and get saved, but rather, you'll simply have facts to inform your present transitional mindset toward whatever end you finally choose.. now .

MessianicChristian

Regardless of belief or disbelief in the Hebrew prophets and Jesus and his disciples presentation of God and the hopes based on that presentation the only way to understand the Bible is to examine it in the cultural context and worldview of the Hebrew prophets and the Jewish Apostles of Jesus and their associate scribes [the apostles taught what Jesus taught them].

The Hebrew nation was the only ancient nation to teach that there is only one true God, an individual personal being who is Creator of everything in existence and is personally responsible for the existence of all life.

The Hebrew faith was presented in Hebrew texts that the common people could understand without esoteric mysteries or metaphysical speculations as were common in all of the pantheistic - polytheistic systems.

John and his disciples and Jesus and his disciples believed in the promises made by the Hebrew prophets from Abraham to Moses to Daniel to Malachi.

Who God is, who the Messiah - Christ is, and what is the kingdom God, according to the Hebrew and the Christian scriptural texts, is what the prophets of Israel told the people of Israel to expect in clear speech without esoteric mysteries or metaphysical speculations.

Bible scholarship as practiced by most 'genuine' Bible scholars" with Ph.D.s ignore the uniqueness of the Hebrew prophets' presentation of God and wander throughout the pantheistic - polytheistic cultures pretending to fine the origin of the Bible's teachings.

Most 'genuine' Bible scholars" with Ph.D.s are either incapable of or unwilling to distinguish between the actual teachings of the Hebrew scripture texts and the Rabbinic tradition preserved in the Talmud, and are either incapable of or unwilling to distinguish between the actual teachings of the Christian scriptural texts and the Christologies and the Theologies constructed by the Gnostic Christians, the Middle Platonic catholic Christians [ from Justin Martyr to Arius] and the Neo-Platonic catholic Christians [from Athanasius to Augustine].

The problem is not the academic credentials of most Bible scholars, the problem is their lack of honesty and integrity.

Bart Ehrman is one of the more honest Bible scholars, however most Bible scholars with Ph.D.s habitually misrepresent the text of scriptures as well as the actual documentary and artefactual data at their disposal in pursuit of atheistic and / or personal career agendas and objectives.

11

The Ransom Sacrifice -- Simplified Suggestion

by FusionTheism in

the sacrifice of jesus simplified suggestion.

many christians have different theories about exactly how the ransom sacrifice (also called the atonement or the passion) of christ worked.. just how did jesus death on the cross 2,000 years ago provide us with salvation, forgiveness, and eternal life?.

some christians believe that jesus somehow mystically experienced the full pain and suffering of eternal torment in hell (for every persons sin who has ever lived), during the 3 hours of darkness when he was hanging upon the cross.

MessianicChristian

Atonement and Ransom is a judicial / legal matter involving the sovereignty of God. It has nothing to do with the degree of Jesus' suffering on the cross.

God made man, [a material organism endowed with life and consciousness], called in Hebrew a nefesh. The Hebrew word nefesh refers to material organisms endowed with life and consciousness.

Man is not a conscious spirit entity [ a soul = a conscious spirit entity ] inhabiting a material body, man is the actual material organism endowed with life and consciousness. The man did not become a living soul, the man became a living person.

God as the man's creator / maker has the authority to define the perimeter of man's autonomy - [freedom]. God laid one command on the man. This was not a test to see if the man would obey or not, this was a command given to the man by his maker and sovereign. God expected Adam to obey this command.

God informed the man that if he disobeyed he would come under a judicial sentence of death by execution. The Hebrew statement, "dying you will die" is a legal phrase meaning that a person is sentenced to death by execution.

God did not execute the man, Adam, but God did not pardon him either and so the sentence of death by execution remains on the descendants of Adam.

The man Adam, a human nefesh made by God and endowed with life and consciousness, is a son of God. Another human nefesh like Adam - a son of God - who is made or begotten by God and endowed with life and consciousness and is a blood relative of Adam would have the right of repurchase and could legally ransom humanity from the "dying you will die" sentence of death by execution imposed on Adam by God for his disobedience.

Adam's one sin of disobedience in the garden of Eden is the only sin that has to be atoned for.

The death that entered the world by the one man Adam is not death due to accident, disease, famine, mortality, natural forces, murder, warfare, or will animal attack. The death that entered the world by the one man Adam is a judicial sentence of death by execution imposed by God on Adam.

What is required to meet God's judicial / legal condition is that the man who suffers the judicial / legal execution , the "dying you will die" death sentence in place of Adam is [1] the actual equivalent of Adam, that is a human nefesh, a material organism endowed with life and consciousness who is [2] not under the "dying you will die" death sentence imposed on Adam.

Adam is the of the human son of God made from the dust of the earth and given life by God. Jesus, "the last Adam", is the human son of God begotten by the Holy Spirit - the power of the Most High in the virgin Mary at Nazareth when the angel Gabriel visited her, therefore the human nefesh Jesus can substitute for the human nefesh Adam.

Jesus the only son of God begotten in a human mother and Adam the only human directly made by God from the dust of the earth both have the same father . This removes Jesus from the lineage Adam making him not under the "dying you will die" sentence of death by execution imposed on Adam.

Jesus being the seed of the woman Eve who was made from the bone and flesh of Adam before Adam sinned makes him an actual relative of Adam and Eve giving him the right of repurchase the descendants of Adam and Eve.

The simplicity of the atonement / ransom is that God accepts the unjust execution of his obedient only begotten son, the human nefesh Jesus as a legal substitute - atonement - for the "dying you will die" judicial sentence of death by execution imposed by God on the human nefesh Adam, the disobedient son of God.