I prayed to the GB for a measure of holy spirit from the organization to help me understand how hard to push when I had to poo earlier today. The answer I received was that that it didn't matter since it's all shit anyway.
notverylikely
JoinedPosts by notverylikely
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15
The WT ADMITS to using mind control!!!
by brotherdan inmarch 1, 1983 wt page 25 - consider some of the other twisted things used to mislead gods people today.
on occasion opposers will question the various teachings that jehovahs people hold in common.
often this becomes a debate about words, just as it was in the first century.
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The fate of the witnesses of Yahweh
by Doug Mason inyou are my witnesses, declares the lord,.
and my servant whom i have chosen,.
and understand that i am he.. "before me no god was formed,.
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notverylikely
I highly recommend God: A Biography by Jack Miles.
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404
The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...
by AGuest indear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
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notverylikely
That is all YOU can do, dear NVL. That is YOUR limitation. It is not mine.
Peace Shelby. I know. Reality has never been your limitation. Understanding what you are talking about, grasping science, consistency in arguments, using the bible and then when it contradicts you....those are yours.
IMHO you ARE beating such a horse. My position is that your thinking, sight, vision, understanding, and comprehension is limited to what you can perceive with your five physical senses... and that MY thinking, sight, vision, understanding, and comprehension is not... but is able to transcend such... limitations.
Prove it. Have god tell you something easy. Describe the shirt I was wearing when I wrote this. Show me why you're special. Show me how your senses can transcend my simple ones. And it can't be your lord talking to you, that's him talking to you, not your senses doing something.
Apparently, you take exception with my phrase "proven theories" and assume I mean that that is ALL that science involves. But, as usual (and I have come to learn that you do this), you overlooked my words "or the like." I was being brief, dear NVL. And either you knew that, but chose to deviate... or you didn't... which only further validates what I stated, that "YOU cannot even begin to grasp the truth [of mine]."
No, you just missed my point. There you go again assuming things about me.
On the other hand, YOU don't want to hear a word of what I have to say as to faith. So, why, I have to ask... are you even bothering? The reality is, dear one, that while get YOU... you do NOT get me.
Please be honest. We have discussed your faith and beliefs many times. It's when you use in dishonest way, like quoting scripture to prove your point and then when that same scripture disagrees with you, telling people the bible isn't right and dismissing it. No matter how you turn it, that is dishonest and quoting scripture to your own end and on princicple I can't let that happen. I AM NOT saying you are dishonest, just that for you the ends justify the means.
You can have all the faith you want, but trying to use that faith to decry the reality around use and decry the learning, science and casting off of myths that made insuling, planes and cancer fighting drugs possible....I can't let that stand either.
And I don't want you :)
Because I have stated... time... and time... again... that EVERYONE else can hear. EVERYONE. The "gift" isn't limited to ME. It is only GIVEN to me... because I RESPONDED... when THEY... spoke to ME.
Oh, I read it all. It's just curious that everyone else that also says they have the gift hears things differently.Curious.
I'm TRYING to hear what YOU'RE saying. You'd think... with all of this discussion... you'd at least TRY to hear what I've stated: there is NOTHING wrong with the Transmitter - the PROBLEM lies with the RECEIVER(S).
Oh, no debate from me on that one. All you receivers getting different messages from the same source does indicate a problem.
Whoa... what was revealed to me was absolutely true. And, sorry to say, that when you made your "announcement"... it was proven... to ME. I was actually STUNNED. I mean, I know what he told me but I had NO idea that YOU would collaborate it... not at all. And certainly not that quickly!
So what god told you was true, but I lied about it? Is THAT what you are saying?
See above. Also, until recently, I might have been the only one willing to step forward and openly ADMIT I hear, but others hear. Have for some time.
Oh please, people have been saying that God talked to them since they were writing about god. Moses, Paul, the prophets, watersrpout, CTR, the popes.
Others do. Which is why you have so many Bible versions. Why not me?
Because it's not a question of versions. It's a question of you using scripture to support your points and then denying that right and opportunity to others.
Oh, now, wait. Are YOU saying that some DO hear? Truly??? You ARE saying that! Well, if THAT'S what you're saying... then you and I can just stop right here. Right here... right now. Because that's all I'm saying. Now, if one hears something different than I, sure, you have a right to question which is RIGHT.
I am saying that if the same god is talking to everyone, then you should all be getting the same message. If not, then you aren't all hearing from god, you're all hearing from different gods or you aren't hearing from god.
Because both can't be right. Right? I don't think one needs to hear from God or Christ, however, to know which one is right. All one has to do... is READ it.
Right. But my point is that people that "hear" from God in the same fashion as you say differently. Plus, when book says it is inaccurate, putting faith in parts of makes no sense since you already know it is inaccurate.
Ummmm... no... I don't think we have to do that. I think LOGIC would say go with the TRUTH.
OK. Just give us a list of the book and chapters you will accept and then can all stick to those.
But, seriously, Og DID slide down that hill on that piece of bark.
Ah, I see. You think sliding on a piece of bark is snowboarding. That's the problem. You again again don't understand the subject at hand. Andwhat really happened is that god had proto-israelites kill him for occupying the cave god promised them.
Well, gimme more, cause I truly don't see the ones you claim to have given thus far...
You truly do not listen, Shelby. Ask god to help you understand and really listen and he will help you to see.
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404
The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...
by AGuest indear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
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notverylikely
Sorry, but I don't "see" it, dear one...
And you yours. Yet, my love for you doesn't fail as a result...
All I can do is provide you examples, evidence, proof, definitions, demonstrations and history, Shelby. I can't make you understand. I am NOT beating a dead horse since all of those things I just mentioned are supporting proofs. You have "we don't know everything so I am going to change the definition of words" as your support.
Just like with Zannahdoll and other that keep trying to go this route, I feel sorry at the lack of education, knowledge and critical thinking skills I see. This line of argument has been going on for thounsands of years and as science and progress marches forward, people keep hanging on and trying to make the same argument and get pushed in smaller and smaller boxes and refuse to understand or even try to really understand these things. It makes me sad. Truly. Peace and love, of course.
Science involves a whole lot of things, dear one... including things that cannot be tested, which methodology cannot be proven, results that cannot be duplicated... and a whole lot of falsifiabilities.
This is what makes me sad. It's clear you have no idea how it works. All the things you decry are the very things upon which science works and which it depends, yet you decry science without even knowing how it works. Just like Zannahdoll, you try to argue things and then it becomes apparent you don't even know what the words mean, like falsifiability.
No, really, it only requires KNOWING that something is true. Faith. The thing is, that while I have absolutely NO problem accepting your "horse"... NOT because of proven theories or the like but because of what my Lord has told and shown me... YOU cannot even begin to grasp the truth of mine.
Oh dear shelby, there you go again. You prove over and over again you do not grasp science, yet argue and debate how it works without understanding it, then claim you accept it? Please.
The difference is that you KNOW what you know because you get communication from someone that no one else can talk to and those that claim to communicate with God/Jesus in the same way you do consistently get different messages. This is why you can never compete with science. Science is ALL about result, understand, getting the same results and if not, understanding why.
And pretty predictably, you fall back on claiming that I cannot understand the truth of your message. Of course I can't. No one can't since you're the only one that hears the message and it seems to change routinely, like when god revealed things to you about me that turned out not to be true and then you got updated messages. And EVERYONE ELSE that hears directly from god get a different message.
Dear one, if you... folks... would just go to my Lord himself, I wouldn't have to quote. I wouldn't have to say. I could be released from this assignment and just go about living my own life, with a care or regard to whether you get it or not. But... as I have said MANY times... I am working out my salvation.
You don't have to quote. You have to choose. If you choose to quote, then when someone else does you have to accept that as well. You can't have it both ways, my dear. Others do go to the Lord and get completely different messages, some that the bible is inerrant and literal, others that it isn't, etc. Until there is a consensus, we will just have to dispense with the different sets of rules for everyone.
So, no sliding down the hill on, say, a large piece of bark?
Nope. Despite the fact that people do that in cartoons, that doesn't work. Unless, of course, you want a broken leg, ankle or concussion.
Oh! Because sometimes we don't know "how"... because we don't WANT to. Like dear OOG, above. OOG's never seen anyone go down the hill any other way than on his paws (or his bum, if he slips). To do it standing on one's feet on a smallish piece of bark, though, is absurd. To him.
In your made up fantasy, he's never seen that either. He saw someone try and then break their leg and get left behind by the pack because they couldn't care for him. They guy that tried was eaten by wolves and OOG then went and banged his cavewoman.
I am not so sure, dear one, but you are more than welcome to give me an example...
Pick one. I have given you many examples :)
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notverylikely
BD, stay an elder long enough to get the new flock book.
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404
The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...
by AGuest indear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
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notverylikely
If you are asking whether the letters attributed to them "scripture," then the answer is, no, they are not...
So I can fully expect you to NOT quote from them at all anymore?
My understanding is only the ones who were led by holy spirit and TOLD to write...
Which ones?
The gospels are not "scripture".
So what are they? What is "inspired" writing?
Sorry, but I cannot do it any other way. The "scribes and Pharisees" have not remained honest, loyal, or faithful. My Lord has.
No need to apologize. That's fine, but you can't just quote, say Romans, for your end, and then when someone else does say "Oh, Jesus told me that's not inspired". That's why I am asking you to tell us what are the inspired writings and level the playing field.
LISTEN to what you are stating here, dear NVL. Hear YOURSELF: you COULDN'T... until YOU learned HOW. If you REFUSE to learn... or refuse to believe you CAN learn... then you never WILL learn. YOU will never learn. That doesn't mean that OTHERS who don't know how, now... or believe they can learn how... won't ever learn.
I know well what I said, my dear. Until the snowboard was invented for the first time, no one could, so my point still stands. It's the same as flying, or making pancakes. You can try to argue this however you want, but I am not going to let you redefine the word "can't" to mean whatever you want to mean. Until you got backed into a corner, your point never involved refusing to learn or being lazy. That suddenly appeared. Why?
The kind sufficient to build pyramids and other structures... on which a LOT of modern-day math theorems are based...
Oh? Please, I would LOVE to see a reference on this. It's pretty well established that the foundation of modern math came about during the Golden Age of Islam.
Then I should be free to share what I do, yes? Until you... or "science" can literally prove ME wrong. Right? And you are more than free to take it as "science fiction"... or whatever you wish to. Right? I think that about sums it up.
Of course, people say ridiculous things every day. Science HAS proven you wrong on many things, but you are still free to share whatever ideas you have.
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404
The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...
by AGuest indear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
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notverylikely
Like, "Hmmmm... birds can fly... why can't I... I think I CAN fly... some how... some day... some way"???
Peace, Shelby. And not at ALL like that. That' been explained amply with examples many times. You keep beating your dead horse...
As is faith in [as yet proven] science...
And that's why it's not the same. Science involves tests, methodology, results that can be repeated, falsifiability. God requires "I want it to be true"
The physical universe... which, although vast... is still less that the "world" from which it came.
I thought you said everything came from the light was jesus, now it came from the world?
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404
The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...
by AGuest indear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
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notverylikely
NVL - would you believe that REALITY does not change. But just our knowledge and perceptions of it change?
Nope :) Of course reality changes. Reality is tied directly to the forward arrow of time. If reality never changes, then we live in a static unexpanding universe. Energy isn't traveling from the sun to the earth. Our knowledge, ability and perceptions change, but so does reality.
Oh, and I wasn't all that witty last night, I was somewhat....inebriated.
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404
The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...
by AGuest indear ones.
rather, it is our adversary who says we will do anything... anything... to avoid it.
a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. even curse god to his face.
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notverylikely
If you are [now] asking which parts of the Bible are inspired, the answer is "the scriptures." If you are asking, "Which parts are 'scripture," the answer is "Moses, the Psalms, the Prophets"... and the Revelation. If you are asking are the 'scriptures' right, the answer is to some degree, yes, but not completely as the "false stylus of the secretaries"... i.e., the "scribes"... has rendered them unreliable in their entirety - intentionally and unintentionally (which I also stated... somewhere).
So Paul, Peter, James are out? By prophets, do you mean ALL of them, includin the minor prophets? Are you also including the gospels?
Oh, and peace to you, dear shelby!
But I do not lie to you, dear NVL. You might not believe this but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is something I take VERY seriously...
Oh, I don't think you are lying. I just think that it makes it diffifcult to have an opposing view when you get daily updates and quote scripture freely and whenever someone else posts commonly accepted scripture, you kick it to the curb as not real. You are playing by a different set of rules. Other people claim to commune in the same fashion you do and hear a different message. Who are we to believe?
Yes. And if you don't want to learn, you will never learn how... or make one. In the meantime, can you tell others who can... or who want to learn how... that THEY can't? Or shouldn't? Isn't that WTBTS "dirt"?
Not at all. This isn't about wanting to learn or not, it's about what someone CAN do. I COULDN'T snowboard until I learned how. You can't change the meaning of "can't" into "haven't learned" or "lazy" to defend your argument.
Which is another reason why we shouldn't put our faith in the Bible... because we don't always see what even IT states.
I apologize for not reading the entire scripture you quoted earlier. Let's just agree to stop using it, then.
Not necessarily, dear one. There were skins, leaves, bark, and other material that could have been used to fashion a "kite." And how do WE know one wasn't, say, 3000 years... or more... ago?
We don't know it. So in the absence of any evidence, proof, we will just have to assume it didn't happen :)
Just like the WTBTS' "new light." It ain't so until WE say it is. And whatever WE say is true... at the time... is truth. Okay, dear NVL, but please don't say that I'm the one stuck in WTBTS-thinking mode...
I never did say that, my dear. I have repeatedly said that reality changes. Today it's not cold where I am, but when winter comes it will be. The reality today, however, is that it isn't. Reality will change, though. And it's not entirely honest to suggest that I am telling you or anyone else what "truth" is.
And there you go: the light getting brighter. "At the time WE understood it, it was true; now, we know different so what we know NOW is true." Do you REALLY not SEE that?
Of course I do. That in no way changes the fact that until the light gets brighter, until something new is learned, developed, invented, the word "can't" still means "can't". Until the light got brighter, I could not snowboard. Perhaps is the issue is you are defining "can not" as "not now and never will be able to do something". If so, that's not what it means.
Wait... how can YOU say he had no math, no physics? How can you SAY that? Because he didn't publish a theorem? How do YOU know that? True, what he may have "had" may have been primitive to what we have now
Because there is plenty of eidence of the kind of math and science that man had available 3000 years ago and there is nothing to suggest that anyone ever had that kind of math and physics knowledge and plenty to suggest that he didn't. Sure it's possible something new might be discovered, but until then, we just have to go with what we got.
I have faith that "we" don't know everything... in spite of what our... ummmm... arrogance... tells us.
I can't for the life of me understand why you think anyone ever said we know everthing. In fact, I said the opposite.
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I was never DF'ed, I wasn't abused, I never lost a loved one to the ban on blood
by OnTheWayOut instrange title, huh?.
the point is that i wasn't "burned" in some incredible way by wts and i don't carry a huge chip on my shoulder from some incredible injustice from wts or the local elders.. i say this because some people have constantly accused me of being really screwed over by my experience because of my comments on others' threads.
i explained myself there for my reasons, but wanted to repeat what those reasons are here in my own thread.. i explained on some post somewhere that i had felt that i experienced "divine intervention" in my life at one time and that same intervention ended my suicide attempt.
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notverylikely
OTWO, ring me up tomorrow.