Posts by Chaserious

48

Long Term Effect of Conti & Similar Cases?

by Chaserious in

i was commenting in another thread this morning and saw speculation that the conti verdict will hasten the wts' decline, beyond just the money they may have to pay in that case itself.

i have seen this mentioned a number of times and it got me thinking and doing a bit of research.

i think the speculation and hope is that it will give rise to similar lawsuits which will meet with similar success.

Chaserious

I don't think they are asking for additional liability by making the elders call them. Elders are already appointed by the WTS, so the WTS is largely going to be on the hook already for their actions that fall within the bailiwick of duties as an elder. It's whether the corporation can be held liable for the actions of a MS/ publisher that is murky right now. While an elder could seek personal counsel (doubt many actually would), they still can be required to call WTS legal, as least if they want to remain as an elder. It's no different than a corporation requiring that the manager of an individual branch call HQ legal anytime someone slips and falls on the premises. While the manager might potentially be individually liable as well (e.g. if she had failed to put up a warning sign for a wet floor) and therefore can get her own attorney, she still has to call the main legal department.

Of course, this is complicated by the mandatory reporting requirements for sexual abuse in many states. To use my analogy, if the corporation had a policy that the manager call legal before calling 911 if someone fell, they could potentially be asking for trouble. Though, with a business corporation, the attorney would have a professional obligation to make sure the manager knew he represented the company, and not the individual. I wonder if the WTS legal department informs the elders of this. Ethically, they should. I wouldn't exactly trust the ethics of anyone in WTS HQ any further than I could see them, of course.

72

Which of the 5 weekly meetings did you hate the most?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

it was always stressed that the five weekly meetings were like the fingers on your hand.

each one was just as important as the next.

which of the meetings were the most boring,bothersome and difficult to listen to?

Chaserious

I'm going to say the TMS was the worst. There wasn't one redeeming feature. I know they've changed the format now, but going back to how I remember it, the #1 talk was always about some super dry shit like introduction to 2nd Kings and what year it was written in, and on and on. Remember when they went through the proclaimers book in the #1 talk? I remember thinking it would be interesting, but it really wasn't. It was just a boring, revisionist history account of our "spiritual heritage". The BH probably 70% of the time was from a part of the bible that contained nothing interesting. I don't know what was worse, listening to the brother drone on about how some part of Deuteronomy talking about not marrying Ammonites and how to bury your poop with your implement has meaning for us today, or listening to inane, nonsensical comments from the audience about the same material.

Next came the student parts. The #2 talk would either be some 7 year old boy who could barely read or an older brother who had no privileges and was reminded of it by being forced to give the same talks as young boys who still had some of their baby teeth. There was this one preteen in my hall who had some kind of reading disability, and after every word or two, he would take this loud, deep breath that made it sound like he had asthma or just finished a two mile run. He didn't have asthma, and didn't have the problem in normal conversation. It was painful to watch. He could only get through 4-5 verses in the alloted time, instead of the 15 or so that were assigned, but they kept letting him give talks. Then would come the two talks that they graciously let the sisters give. Of course, they had to give the talk as part of a contrived social situation, since it would be heresy to actually let someone with no testicles teach anyone anything. Many of these were read verbatim from note cards also. And of course, the unbelieving workmate would always agree to accept some literatrash or a bible study after hearing the perfectly sensible explanation that we don't celebrate birthdays because John the Baptist was killed in connection with Herod's birthday. I'm sure I could think of some terrible parts of the other meetings too, but I can't think of anything positive at all about the TMS.

16

jw experience from conn. shootings

by ashpman in

jw
friends

just found this on a post from a fb jw friend of mine:.

experiences following the connecticut shooting:.

from a local witness:.

Chaserious

That seems to be making its way around the JW e-mail circuit. It was also posted here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/243803/1/so-i-finally-call-Bethel-today

29

Watch Tower Web Site Has No Commenting Feature, Comments Unwelcome,

by frankiespeakin in

well it comes as no surprise that the "official" watch tower web site has no place to leave a comment you can only leave your address if your interested.. can you imagine if they did have a place where you can post comments what would happen?.

i'm sure the lack luster of the wt web site is due to the fact that a bunch of old governing body member must go over it with a fine toothed comb and with all thier other business to carry out as corporation executives it is just to time consuming and lets face it these old guys just don't have what it takes to bring this organization thru the 21st century, they are too lost in thier delusion, they are fighting thier own shadow, the enemy is everyone that disagrees with them and they are so steeped in denial they don't want to hear any comment that doesn't agree with them.

they only want confirmation biased statements to read, all else must be resisted and faught against.. internet presents is very important to the wt or it should be as door to door sales will no longer pay the bills, who wants a trashy magazine when you can down load info cheaply and quickly off the net.. these delusional old guys running the wt will be the reason they go belly up.

Chaserious

Why would they allow comments? It's not a forum. What other websites for corporations, charities, religious orgs, or universities have comments sections? Maybe they should start a facebook or twitter page. That'd be fun, lol

57

Watchtower softens position on Jehovah' Witnesses and blood transfusions? Canadian National Post Story.

by Balaamsass in

without fanfare, jehovahs witnesses quietly soften position on blood transfusionstom blackwell, national post staff | dec 20, 2012 9:59 pm et.

Chaserious

They hold onto the blood policy either because they still believe it or because they would lose so much credibility among current members if they dropped it. If they dropped the blood policy and made it a conscience matter, then what did all these people die for? It would be obvious even to many of the sincerely devoted that they died for a corporation. It wasn't as big of a deal dropping the organ transplant policy because there probably weren't nearly as many people affected as it was still in the early stages of effective organ transplant. Plus with the advances in modern medicine, there are lots of loopholes now where they can take "fractions", so there's less need than ever to drop the policy. They don't really have a substantial legal cost related to blood issues. I am not aware of the WTS paying settlements or verdicts related to followers who die due to the blood issue, so they have no incentive to drop it, even as a business decision. They don't care about those who die; it lets them have modern day "martyrs" to publish stories about.

42

New letter RE public witnessing.. omg they are setting up stands!!!

by BigE in

this link contains news of a letter sent to the elders about witnesses setting up stands to peddle literature in public places!

how desperate are they?

it sounds sad honestly... and they are told not to argue with apostates .

Chaserious

I passed by tables set up in both Port Authority Terminal and Grand Central in NYC this past summer. In Grand Central, they always had the same spot in the subway tunnels with a table in the long corridor between the Shuttle train and the main 4/5/6/7 area. I almost never saw anyone talking to them. There were usually 2-4 witnesses there chit chatting with each other, with no attempt to get anyone's attention passing by. Not that it probably would have mattered; NY commuters are used to ignoring unwanted attention seekers. I thought to myself that it seemed like a pretty easy way to count time. I think they went in the corridor because it would have been even more undignifed to set up shop in the main Grand Central subway hub among the people singing, break dancing and playing the flute or whatever for change. I never bothered trying to talk to them, but maybe sometime I will.

48

Long Term Effect of Conti & Similar Cases?

by Chaserious in

i was commenting in another thread this morning and saw speculation that the conti verdict will hasten the wts' decline, beyond just the money they may have to pay in that case itself.

i have seen this mentioned a number of times and it got me thinking and doing a bit of research.

i think the speculation and hope is that it will give rise to similar lawsuits which will meet with similar success.

Chaserious

The very act of calling Bethel Legal first imposes greater liability on the WT for future actions.

I think that this is a business decision they've made. They're willing to accept potential greater liability for the actions of these elders in exchange for avoiding the PR risk of having some elder "going rogue" and needlessly giving the org bad press or causing a stir in the congregation (you know, actually "protecting" the flock by warning them). Additionally, by having explicit instructions, it actually could protect them from liability in the event that an elder doesn't follow the instructions. They would then say whatever happened was outside the scope of the elder's duty as a WTS elder.

48

Long Term Effect of Conti & Similar Cases?

by Chaserious in

i was commenting in another thread this morning and saw speculation that the conti verdict will hasten the wts' decline, beyond just the money they may have to pay in that case itself.

i have seen this mentioned a number of times and it got me thinking and doing a bit of research.

i think the speculation and hope is that it will give rise to similar lawsuits which will meet with similar success.

Chaserious

I think you'll understand when I say I hope I'm right and you're wrong. *giggling*

Well, I wouldn't mind too much being wrong about this one thing. =)

I'm just afraid this case is going to be an anomaly, both in terms of the generosity of the jury and the specifics of what happened. It terms of precedent, right now it's still up in the air. If the WTS happens to win on appeal, it would give them legal ammunition to get out of these cases at the dismissal stage in the future, preventing a jury (at least in CA) from ever sticking it to them again.

48

Long Term Effect of Conti & Similar Cases?

by Chaserious in

i was commenting in another thread this morning and saw speculation that the conti verdict will hasten the wts' decline, beyond just the money they may have to pay in that case itself.

i have seen this mentioned a number of times and it got me thinking and doing a bit of research.

i think the speculation and hope is that it will give rise to similar lawsuits which will meet with similar success.

Chaserious

I totally agree with the moral culpability in this type of case. So much for "protecting the flock". It's more like protecting the corporation. I was questioning whether there would be a significant direct effect, either in terms of lawsuit payments or declining attendance, and I suspect that there just won't be. If anything, I suspect the effect will be long-term in nature, as this type of thing gets media coverage and makes it harder for publishers to bury their heads in the sand and ignore all but what WTS tells them.

NeverKnew - I do agree that they want to shift some liability from the WTS to individual elders. I hope if this happens, some of them open their eyes. But plenty of them will just call it persecution for Jehovah's name if they have to incur personal liability, go broke, delcare bankruptcy and the like. I knew one elder who sustained a serious injury working parking at an assembly when some idiot ran over his leg. He had no health insurance and the policies on his own car insurance and that of the person who hit him weren't enough to cover his medical bills, and he ended up having to sell his house to pay his medical bills and survive. He would rather lose everything then file a lawsuit over it. Bit of a different situation, but still...

I do however, disagree the Conti case somehow sets a precedent that the WTS is on the hook (legally) for any abuse by a MS, or rank and file member, if that's what you are implying. First of all, if the verdict gets upheld (which is no slam dunk), it only sets legal precedent in California. Second, the case isn't a matter of vicarious liability against the WTS (in other words, automatic liability for its adherent's actions, such as exists in the employer/employee context). The WTS had to be found liable for its own acts, which were in connection with the 1989 letter and the elders knowing about the abuser prior to the time he abused Candace. For the reasons discussed in this thread, I think that even if the verdict sticks, to duplicate it you would need a very similar set of facts which is not going to exist in all abuse cases, most notably being that the abuse would have had to take place before the implementation of their legally slick, morally shameful new policy.

48

Long Term Effect of Conti & Similar Cases?

by Chaserious in

i was commenting in another thread this morning and saw speculation that the conti verdict will hasten the wts' decline, beyond just the money they may have to pay in that case itself.

i have seen this mentioned a number of times and it got me thinking and doing a bit of research.

i think the speculation and hope is that it will give rise to similar lawsuits which will meet with similar success.

Chaserious

Fed-up: I imagine it's unlikely because if the elders follow the directions and call WT immediately, I would think they are put right through to a lawyer or get a call back within hours, and if they have a legal duty to report are told to contact the police as soon as hanging up with legal. This would seem to take minutes or hours; not a lot of time for more molestation to take place. This involves a bit of speculation, but since money is on the line I would bet legal moves very quickly on these phone calls, don't you think?