don't try to lie about it.
you accept some of these people as an authority.
you listen to them.
I don't know who some of those people are. And I don't listen to talk show hosts. Ever! I put no authority into any of these people, which is not to say that they cannot say something wise. Only that I would have to consider it for myself, research it, and then decide for myself if I thought it was wise.
Tammy
i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.
sound weird?.
counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.
Sometimes the harsh glare of reality is too much to take without sunglasses. We see as much as we are prepared to and progress at a pace that suits us. I have my own abstractions to soften the hard edges.
I agree. Which is why I don't ever think I am done growing or learning. You seem to have found a balance that works for you too.
What is the fine print on the bible? Have you read that too?
I don't think the fine prints are actually written in the bible (I would prefer it if they were because then people could decide more rationally for themselves), but I do know them, yes. Translation and actual errors; no original copies. I just don't think that stuff actually changes the important message of love, compassion, mercy and forgiveness.
Tammy
if you have been "brain washed" the control of your thinking has been wrested away from you and diverted.. .
hidden cues have replaced the ordinary path of logical analysis when examining your world.. .
think of this like a detour sign on a highway.
LeavingWT - It is circular. I don't think there is any way around that, at least not for me.
I learned about God through instruction as a child, at some Sunday school lessons - my mother was not religious, and certainly not outspoken about faith. I do not ever remember having a conversation about it with her as a child.
My brother had the same upbringing as me; the same minimal exposure. He's an atheist/agnostic. I'm a believer.
*shrugs*
From that bit of instruction, I always believed. I got strength from it. Had prayers answered as a teenager. That's pretty powerful to a young person.
I fell away from it all as I moved into my twenties. Then a few years ago (once I started thinking about my children's spiritual needs), I decided to read the bible myself, to make sure no one could tell me something was a command when it actually wasn't. So no one could swindle me, and so I could teach my children correctly.
Then the JW's offered to conduct a completely unbiased study with me, and I accepted.
After two years, I got away from them too. Started searching for truth elsewhere - and then just stopped searching altogether. Just decided to take a breather... and then I put my faith and fate in God's hands.
Here I am.
I've never lost my faith. When I have doubts, I think about Jesus and his teachings, and the doubts fade away.
Believe me, I question everything in my life. I read all fine print. I never believe anyone when they say something that is too good to be true. I never believe anything anyone says anyway, without looking it up for myself.
But I don't doubt God. My faith is always there.
I think I consider that a miracle in itself. I think that's my personal revelation. I don't have anything like what PSac says happened to him. I don't have the contact that Shelby says she has.
I just have my undying faith.
I don't expect that to convince anyone. But that's as honest as I think I can be.
Tammy
i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.
sound weird?.
counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.
Terry - thanks for the examples of self-destructive behavior. I don't disagree with you on any of the points you've given. Of course, I see that this just means we have to be very careful about who we place our faith in. That our faith should be examined honestly and critically. But not that faith, itself, is destructive. Only that it can be.
Exactly like what you said here:
If we actively examine the truth and reliability of too-good-to-be-true offers we won't be swindled by them.
Gladiator - Nice to be hanging in there. :) Thanks. I understand the things you wrote. We do become vulnerable to trickery when we place blind acceptance and faith in someone or something. And joining a group does put us at risk for adopting group mentality and sacrificing self. I don't think it absolutely amounts to self sacrifice, although I think that it can - if we lose the ability to question the things that we are told.
I don't feel like my faith has caused me to sacrifice or suicide my 'self'. Though it seemed I would join for a while, when it came right down to it, I did not join the extremist group I studied with. (JW's)
I questioned too much. I still do. But I still have my faith.
I don't think I exhibit these self-destructive behaviors as a result of my faith, but I could have if I had not questioned an organization.
I don't think my faith causes me to suicide my 'self' - but I do think joining a group and doing what I am told without question would have done this. Except we should keep in mind that suicide is a conscious (if unhealthy) choice. You choose to die. So I would have had to knowingly choose to be sacrificing my 'self'.
In fact, I did want someone else to do my thinking so that I wouldn't have to search for the 'truth' anymore. There was appeal in that for me. But in the end, I could not join.
Now I no longer want someone else to do my thinking. I don't trust someone else to do my thinking. I always read the fine print (law, politics, religions, etc)
Yet I still have faith - in Jesus.
Tammy
if you have been "brain washed" the control of your thinking has been wrested away from you and diverted.. .
hidden cues have replaced the ordinary path of logical analysis when examining your world.. .
think of this like a detour sign on a highway.
Okay, here are my answers. Think what you will.
STATMENT: All true Christians should love their enemies. (Absolutely True, Somewhat True, False or Absolutely False?)
Somewhat true.
I don't like the word 'true' Christians, because it implies a judgment against 'fake' Christians. But yes, I believe we should love (agape) our enemies. Because there are few of us who have not done harm to another person, intentionally or not.
Treat others as you would be treated.
QUESTION: The bible is the inspired and inerrant word of God. (Absolutely True, Somewhat True, False or Absolutely False?)
False.
Jesus is the Word of God. The bible is man's best attempt to write down the word of God. It contains translation errors and actual errors.
1. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if anyone would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Somewhat true.
I actually tend to think it is true, but that it requires complete and total faith that God is looking out for you. Don't know if I could follow this one so completely - which is perhaps why we have given this so many alternative meanings. (internal upheaval on this one - hopefully I explained why)
2. Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.
False.
But of course I know that there are grounds for divorce in the bible.
(no upheaval)
3. You cannot serve God and money. “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
True.
Not that it does not say : do not worry if you will eat or if you will drink or if you will wear clothes, but rather what you will eat or drink or wear. It also is speaking about anxiety in your life. Not giving up your life.
4. “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
True.
(some internal upheaval - and I also think that grace might counter judgment sometimes - whether grace from God or grace from us to fellow man)
5.“Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
Somewhat true.
I know of no one who has faith without doubt, so I can't attest to the first sentence. As for the second point, I know that is elaborated on in the bible, but I would have to say true.
6.I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
False. A product of thinking from the time it was said.
Since I am only a woman, however, I could be wrong. ;)
I thought about each question before answering. I hope my explanations show my reactions to the questions.
Tammy
some months ago i was listening to a co-worker witnessing to some others about why he believes and why they should to.
as i listened i kept hearing over and over about the "rewards" of eternal life in heaven in the kingdom of god.
later on we had a conversation that went like this.. me: can i ask you a question about your beliefs?.
I would still follow and believe, out of love for God and for mankind. Not for a reward, but for the good of our world. To help this world be a better place. There is great reward in loving and helping others without judging or condemning them. I probably wouldn't shove my beliefs down another person's throat - but I don't do that now anyway.
The first time I asked myself this question though, my answer was the same as your friend's: I would like to think that I would.
This is not an unfair response. It's actually very honest. If you've never separated the two - following and reward - then certainly you hope you would still follow, but you need to examine that thought fully.
Tammy
i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.
sound weird?.
counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.
I'm trying to understand if you think everyone with faith is self-destructive 'suiciders'. And I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what you mean by self-destructive behavior.
Can you give a few specific examples of this behavior? Because at is stands, everything you're saying sounds sweeping and general to me.
Tammy
i did.. it was a 1975 nova hatchback; i named her blossom.. i traded her in on a 1985 nova which i named gumby; i didn't like him.. thanks for replying.. syl.
Nope, sorry. I've never thought of an inanimate object as anything other than an inanimate object.
(My stuffed animals as a child do not count :)
Tammy
adam and eve were to eat of any of the trees of the garden except the one.
they must have been fruit trees, since they were to eat of them.
eating (and drinking) in the bible is figurative of partaking of a message.
Don't listen to talking snakes?
Don't beleive everything you hear?
Both excellent lessons to learn, imo :) We should certainly run from talking snakes... unless our names are Harry.
I think the meaning I derive from the Adam and Eve story is that we chose to disobey and disbelieve God; we chose to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; and all despite being warned about what would happen if we did so.
Yes, I know it was Adam and Eve. I'm just no so arrogant to think that I would have chosen differently in their shoes. Now, perhaps. With everything that mankind has been through. But back then? I think most people, living in another person's shoes from day one, would make most of the same significant choices.
Tammy
when jesus was hungry he looked to see if there were figs on the fig tree.
there weren't any figs, only leaves.
he cursed the tree so that there wouldn't be figs on it again.
Wouldn't you agree that his marriage is future?
Most likely, yes. I would also say possibly ongoing - but I feel it more likely that being brought to 'life' (spiritual) is an ongoing thing for those who believe.
As for the fig tree having prophetic meaning for last days... I already understand that false religion/lies/misunderstandings about God will come to an end at this symbolic wedding - such as the fall of 'Babylon' and 'the beast', etc. So I can see that you could apply the fig tree story to that. Sometimes I just feel a bit wary at applying too much to end time scenarios. We should be living our lives as Jesus taught, with or without any end time prophecies. Then those prophecies wouldn't matter to us anyway.
Just my opinion. I do find your insights interesting, though.
Tammy
