GreyWolf

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Posts by GreyWolf

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  13

  Ever been a Mason? This is important....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hoping someone has some personal experience with them, and knows what they mean when putting these symbols below on things.

  this is important for all to know, especially in the near future.

  you'll see in below examples how worldwide, even warring countries this is prevelant.

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  GreyWolf

  If you want to believe this sort of thing, have at it. But you are going down after a fat rat and coming up with a very skinny mouse. Masonry is about as dangerous as the girl scouts, and much written about it is hogwash.
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  5

  ANOTHER SCAN: Finished Mystery also says Jesus became king in 1878!! See for yourself!!

  by Lady Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here is another scan from the finished mystery...again..supposed "food at the proper time" from christ jesus himself..... 3:16 so then.-"the spring of 1878, corresponding to the date at which our lord assumed the office of king,........".

  actual scan:.

  http://middleman777.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/1918-the-finished-mystery-page-66.jpg.

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  GreyWolf

  My goodness, the 1874, 1878, 1881 dates well well known over the years and were written about by many critics of the Watchtower including ex-Witnesses Timothy White and James Penton. However, most Witnesses, like most people, have little if any historical memory. How many even think about 1975 today? And how many read much of anything except the nonsense from Brooklyn. What the Internet did was make the historical data know more widely, and the Society can't hide much of its dirty linen any longer.

  Many changes came in 1925 when Rutherford published the article Birth of the Nation. He began revising Russell's chronology then. But the year 1874 as the beginning of the parousia wasn't changed till years later. No great announcement was made; the Society simply started to replace 1874 with 1914 and 1878 with 1918. And because Rutherford said Christ had come to his temple in 1918, the Holy Spirit was no longer active! He got information to direct the Society from "lightening flashes in the temple" and from angels (fallen ones, no doubt). When Knorr and Franz came along that teaching was simply forgotten and the Holy Spirit (?) started directing the Society again.

  GreyWolf
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  30

  WOW!! The Finished Mystery SCAN showing Jesus was WORSHIPPED and was THE GOD!!!

  by Lady Liberty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  unbelievable!!.

  just came across this tidbit from the finished mystery, from the organization, in the early years.

  keep in mind that these bible students were supposedly selected out of all mankind on the earth to feed christs sheep at the proper time, with "spiritual food"...here is some of that "food" that was supposedly from christ himself:.

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  GreyWolf

  Some people here are confused. Evangelicals use the term "Deity" to mean that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and therefore YHWH. No Bible Student ever held that belief. Bible Students, including Russell, held that Jesus in his preexistence was the Logos, the Archangel Michael, and a created god in the Arian sense. But because he had been raised to the position of representative of God the Father as YHWH's king, he could be and was (and is) worshiped by Bible Students. Really, Jesus continued to be worshiped by JWs until the Knorr/Franz era. Freddie probably read the early church Father Origen and decided that Jesus shouldn't be worshiped. (The early Arians in the fourth century worshiped Jesus.)

  The Finished Mystery contains many "gems." In fact, some of the ideas in it are nuttier than the average fruit cake. Interestingly, the 1917 edition prophesied that the churches would fall in the autumn of that year. When they didn't, the next edition indicated that they would fall in 1918. This was discussed in court with Clayton Woodworth when Rutherford and company were charged with violating the Espionage Act. It can be read in the transcript of record of the United States v. Rutherford et al. What is so surprising is that the U.S. government--like the Nazis later--took them so seriously when they could have dismissed them as a small, rather goofy movement. But then, the Pentecostals were in the same boat at the time as conscientious objectors and were being attacked by evangelist Billy Sunday. But then too, the American public was pretty goofy during World War I as well, something that has continued from time to time and seems rather evident right now.

  A couple of other points: There is a picture of a penny in the front of the Finished Mystery. The reason for this was that the book was held to be the penny of Jesus' parable, and it was suggested that Rutherford was the "good man" who gave the penny. When Rutherford expelled the four directors whio took a stand against him and drove them from Bethel in July 1917, Woodworth and the Society began telling the lie that the reason the four directors were dismissed (probably quite illegally) is that they objected to the publication of the Finished Mystery. Interestingly, even the Proclaimers book still teaches that lie despite the fact that Rutherford while under oath in court stated that the Finished Mystery had nothing to do with the directors' dismissal.

  While many Bible Students who broke with Rutherford did not accept the Finished Mystery, some did. For example, the Standfasters who gathered in Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia held fast to the Finished Mystery. They only broke with the Society when Rutherford tried to compromise with the U.S. government by joining in a national day of prayer and by saying it was okay to buy Liberty Bonds for the War. The Standfasters had a magazine called "Old Corn Gems," which is as dull as dishwater. Eventually, they tried to set up a commune on Vancouver Island and built a fish factory. But they fell apart when they nearly starved. One group that grew out of the Standfasters was called the Elijah Voice Society. It was the first group of Bible Students to make a fuss about the flag salute. Rutherford evidently took the idea that saluting the flag was wrong from them.

  GreyWolf
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  13

  Ever been a Mason? This is important....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hoping someone has some personal experience with them, and knows what they mean when putting these symbols below on things.

  this is important for all to know, especially in the near future.

  you'll see in below examples how worldwide, even warring countries this is prevelant.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  GreyWolf

  I simply moved, took very ill, and let my dues payments lapse. I enjoyed the lodge where I was but don't have the time or energy to become involved again. If you are so interested in Masonry, there is a great deal of information on the Internet and, also, a great deal on symbolism. Some people make far too much of symbolism, including some Masons. For example a number of people have made a great deal of the winged sun disk on Russell's Studies in the Scriptures and the use of the cross and crown symbol. They think this connects Russell to Egyptian paganism or Masonry. That is nonsense; there are easier ways of understanding these symbols that make more sense.

  GreyWolf
• 
  13

  Ever been a Mason? This is important....

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hoping someone has some personal experience with them, and knows what they mean when putting these symbols below on things.

  this is important for all to know, especially in the near future.

  you'll see in below examples how worldwide, even warring countries this is prevelant.

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  GreyWolf

  I take it what EndofMysteries wants is for someone to explain the symbolism on American money. If this is not the case, let me know.

  Yes, I have been a Mason and a member of the Blue Lodge. However, I must tell you that most of the things written about Masonry by people who want to attack it and argue falsely that Charles Russell was a Mason spread complete bunk. Masonry generally uses biblical symbolism but doesn't use much if any material from Daniel. The central focus is on King Solomon's temple, but other readings from the Scriptures are used. Besides that, there are symbols taken from the European Enlightenment and there is an emphasis on geometry and reason. Much symbolism on bills and other things is simply not Masonic.

  GreyWolf
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  508

  Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs

  by Mad Sweeney in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.

  they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.

  " the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.

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  GreyWolf

  Thanks for pointing this out, Mad. Another text the like to ignore is Hebrews 1:11 that shows the physicl heavens and eart will perish. Where will their earthly great crowd be then?

  GreyWolf
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  2

  Cartoons from around the world on catholic church abuse crisis

  by behemot in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://blog.cagle.com/daryl/2010/03/31/catholic-church-crisis-and-cartoon-circus/.

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  GreyWolf

  One can understand the anger at Catholicism or at least the hierarchy. But sexual abuse by Catholic clergy has gone on for centuries and only now has it come to public attention in a big way. One can read of seductions in confessionals in the documents of the Mexican Inquisition during the colonial period. But although such things were more common among Catholic clergy than Protestant or Orthodox clerics, there were lots of cases of sexual abuse caused by them too. Whenever men, and sometimes women have power over others, if not watched, they will violate those who are weaker. This happens with clerics, teachers, bosses, professors, etc., etc. Although women are seldom as guilty as men, there are females who violate others sexually. Unfortunately, the concern over child molestation - serious as it is - has taken on some of the aspects of a witch hunt, and sometimes innocent persons have their reputations destroyed unfairly.

  GreyWolf
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  11

  Are you like Ivan Ilych?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  his reaction at the knowledge that he was mortal - was yours similar when you recognized that you would die?.

  on some level it seems very difficult as a human being to accept one's mortality.

  though we may acknowledge it verbally, we submerge our heads in the figurative sand when it comes to realistic acceptance.

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  GreyWolf

  I always thought I could die at any time. So as a JW I never worried about death. Neither do I fear it now, although I am nearly eighty years old. I still believe in the resurrection, but not because I fear death. Rather, like Kierkegaard I want to love God for the sake of God and want to do good to my neighbors whom I must try to love despite my imperfections. I have long had a heavenly hope and still do. Yes, I can understand agnostics on this matter, particularly after coming out of the organization, but I can't understand the atheists here and on other media who mock others' hope. If they have no belief in anything but this material world, let them eat drink and be merry, and please let them not attack those of us who still have faith. They may think us fools, but some of us have good intellectual as well as emotional reasons for maintaining Christian faith.

  GreyWolf
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  32

  The Story of Adam and Eve, Sexist, Egotistical and Guilt-Inducing

  by sabastious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  put yourself in the mind of an ignorant early human.

  he can speak, he can understand his surroundings and can even chart the stars in the night sky.. .

  one other thing this man can understand is injustice: when bad things happen to people who didnt do anything to deserve them.. .

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  GreyWolf

  I doubt if your interpretation is correct. In the first place, the primary sinner was held to be Adam, not Eve. Eve was deceived; Adam was at fault because he knew better. St. Paul blames Adam (Romans 5:12), not Eve. However, as a side note, let me point out that the Western interpretation of the verse I have just cited is wrong. Augustine of Hippo didn't know Greek and misunderstood what St. Paul was trying to say. So Catholics, Protestants and JWs generally believe sin is passed down genetically, something the Eastern Churches don't buy. For a good discussion of this matter, see Elaine Pagels' book "Adam, Eve, and the Serpent.

  I regard the accounts of the Creation and and Fall as allegorical, but they are not simplistic in the way that many other ancient Creation/Fall stories are. Therefore, like C.S. Lewis, I take them very seriously. They explain a great deal about human nature.

  GreyWolf
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  87

  How To Construct a Creationist/Theistic Argument

  by darkl1ght3r in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how to construct a creationist/theistic argument - by ben spencer.

  step 1. come up with a supposed self-apparent, universal, unbreakable, and yet ultimately unprovable "law".. for example:.

  all effects require a cause.

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  GreyWolf

  You will have to be a bit more sophisticated if you think that you can dismiss the ideas that many intelligent Christians, Muslims, and Jews hold. Before posting in such a way, you would be wise to do some good reading. Try, for example, to look at some of Alvin Plantiga's works or Anthony Flew's recent book There is a God. And there is much more. Frankly, I think garden variety atheists are as naive as fundamentalists, and I include people like Dawkins who knows next to nothing about philosophy or the philosophy of science.

  GreyWolf