Posts by goddidit

21

Simple yes/no answers

by goddidit in

i just can't understand jw beliefs so i thought i'd try to get some simple yes/no answers.

this is a genuine effort to understand and i hope nobody takes it as an insult.

hope some of you folks don't mind spending a bit of time on this.

goddidit

Wow! Really Black Sheep? Isn't that blatent lying?

21

Simple yes/no answers

by goddidit in

i just can't understand jw beliefs so i thought i'd try to get some simple yes/no answers.

this is a genuine effort to understand and i hope nobody takes it as an insult.

hope some of you folks don't mind spending a bit of time on this.

goddidit

I really appreciate all of your responses. Thank you.

Anyone else want to answer? Answers so far are helpful but I should've been clearer and said I'm looking for the JW perspective, whether you still hold it or not.

JW chronology

by goddidit in

does anyone have a copy of or a link to the jw chronology of the world?.

i had one as a word doc but can't find it..

goddidit

Does anyone have a copy of or a link to the JW chronology of the world?

I had one as a Word doc but can't find it.

21

Simple yes/no answers

by goddidit in

i just can't understand jw beliefs so i thought i'd try to get some simple yes/no answers.

this is a genuine effort to understand and i hope nobody takes it as an insult.

hope some of you folks don't mind spending a bit of time on this.

goddidit

Thanks asilentone. Is there a way to send a direct message to someone?

21

Simple yes/no answers

by goddidit in

i just can't understand jw beliefs so i thought i'd try to get some simple yes/no answers.

this is a genuine effort to understand and i hope nobody takes it as an insult.

hope some of you folks don't mind spending a bit of time on this.

I just can't understand JW beliefs so I thought I'd try to get some simple yes/no answers. This is a genuine effort to understand and I hope nobody takes it as an insult. Hope some of you folks don't mind spending a bit of time on this. Many thanks.

Which of the following statements are true? Please answer true, false, or don’t know.
• Every edition of the NWT bible ever printed is identical, word for word, letter for letter.
• The NWT bible is absolutely 100% accurate in the historic events and artefacts (buildings, rivers etc.) it describes. If it seems to contain errors or contradictions, that is just because the reader is misunderstanding.
• Some, possibly very few, details of the NWT bible aren’t 100% accurate but that is due to small errors in copying and language translation over the years since the original manuscripts.
• The bible isn’t intended to be a detailed analysis of history, but its overall message is generally true and it is meant to be taken as a guide to living and an instruction from God.
• The bible was originally written (pen to paper, chisel to stone or whatever) by men, all of which were directly inspired by God.
• The bible was originally written (pen to paper, chisel to stone or whatever) by men, only some of which were directly inspired by God.
• God’s inspiration took the form of which of the following?
o Direct dictation of words
o Influencing people’s lives in such a way that they wrote the correct words
o Commanding people to write what they saw
o Revealing truth directly to people’s minds
o Some of the first four statements (please specify which)
o All of the first four statements
• Every human, chimp, lion, mouse, kangaroo, ferret and goat alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.
• Every insect alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.
• Every plant life alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.
• Every bird alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.
• Freshwater fish, which cannot live in saltwater, did not survive the flood.
• Freshwater fish did not exist before the flood.
• Freshwater fish are the descendents of saltwater fish that adapted to freshwater after the flood.
• Dinosaurs went extinct before the great flood.
• Dinosaurs were wiped out by the flood.
• Dinosaurs were on Noah’s ark.
• Bats are birds.
• Before ‘the fall’ there was no death whatsoever.
• Before ‘the fall’ there was no death except for some ‘lower’ life forms, perhaps including bacteria.
• Before ‘the fall’ shellfish didn’t die.
• Before ‘the fall’, tapeworms were vegetarians.

1

What do JWs think of this?

by goddidit in

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-nz</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>ja</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> <w:usefelayout /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

[endif] <!-- /* font definitions */ @font-face {font-family:wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-charset:2; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 268435456 0 0 -2147483648 0;} @font-face {font-family:"ms mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4; mso-font-alt:"ms ??

; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; font-family:symbol;} @list l0:level2 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:o; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; font-family:"courier new";} ol {margin-bottom:0cm;} ul {margin-bottom:0cm;} --> [if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif].

goddidit

I pasted this from Word and it carried some junk across but everything below that is as I intended.

1

What do JWs think of this?

by goddidit in

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-nz</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>ja</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> <w:usefelayout /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

[endif] <!-- /* font definitions */ @font-face {font-family:wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-charset:2; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 268435456 0 0 -2147483648 0;} @font-face {font-family:"ms mincho"; panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4; mso-font-alt:"ms ??

; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; font-family:symbol;} @list l0:level2 {mso-level-number-format:bullet; mso-level-text:o; mso-level-tab-stop:none; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-18.0pt; font-family:"courier new";} ol {margin-bottom:0cm;} ul {margin-bottom:0cm;} --> [if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif].

goddidit

Part of a document I'm preparing to submit to a JW. If anyone is interested, I'd like to get the JW stance on these, whether from believing or non-believing JWs (not sure what the latter really means). The more the merrier. Thanks.

Which of the following statements are true? Please answer true, false, or don’t know.

· Every edition of the NWT bible ever printed is identical, word for word, letter for letter.

· The NWT bible is absolutely 100% accurate in the historic events and artefacts (buildings, rivers etc.) it describes. If it seems to contain errors or contradictions, that is just because the reader is misunderstanding.

· Some, possibly very few, details of the NWT bible aren’t 100% accurate but that is due to small errors in copying and language translation over the years since the original manuscripts.

· The bible isn’t intended to be a detailed analysis of history, but its overall message is generally true and it is meant to be taken as a guide to living and an instruction from God.

· The bible was originally written (pen to paper, chisel to stone or whatever) by men, all of which were directly inspired by God.

· The bible was originally written (pen to paper, chisel to stone or whatever) by men, only some of which were directly inspired by God.

· God’s inspiration took the form of which of the following?

o Direct dictation of words

o Influencing people’s lives in such a way that they wrote the correct words

o Commanding people to write what they saw

o Revealing truth directly to people’s minds

o Some of the first four statements (please specify which)

o All of the first four statements

· Every human, chimp, lion, mouse, kangaroo, ferret and goat alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.

· Every insect alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.

· Every plant life alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.

· Every bird alive today has a direct ancestor on Noah’s ark.

· Freshwater fish, which cannot live in saltwater, did not survive the flood.

· Freshwater fish did not exist before the flood.

· Freshwater fish are the descendents of saltwater fish that adapted to freshwater after the flood.

· Dinosaurs went extinct before the great flood.

· Dinosaurs were wiped out by the flood.

· Dinosaurs were on Noah’s ark.

· Before ‘the fall’ there was no death whatsoever.

· Before ‘the fall’ there was no death except for some ‘lower’ life forms, perhaps including bacteria.

· Before ‘the fall’ shellfish didn’t die.

21

Ancient humans

by goddidit in

does anyone know of any good examples of evidence that humans were around well before the jw claim, that doesn't rely on anything they so casually dismiss, like radiometric dating?.

goddidit

Thanks very much for your replies. These are some great example and though harder to dismiss than radiometric dating, alas, I think still dismissable, probably with a casual 'well, I don't really know'.

I like the tree rings one because yeah, god could have helped the ark to float but why bother preserving all the trees.

The continuous civilisation one is good but dating methods would just be dismissed.

I suppose nothing can get through to them, but I'd be keen to hear any more example you have.

Thanks again

21

Ancient humans

by goddidit in

does anyone know of any good examples of evidence that humans were around well before the jw claim, that doesn't rely on anything they so casually dismiss, like radiometric dating?.

goddidit

Does anyone know of any good examples of evidence that humans were around well before the JW claim, that doesn't rely on anything they so casually dismiss, like radiometric dating?

3

Definition of 'miracle'

by goddidit in

i'm confused about the definition of 'miracle' for jws (or any other religion for that matter).. some describe it as an exception to the laws of physics.

the laws of physics is just a description of reality.

if god were to intervene in the world then his actions, being real, would be within this reality, right?

goddidit

"God created that reality. He is not bound by it."

I'm sure god as defined by christians would not be bound by OUR description of reality because our description is a limited subset of the whole.

But to me 'the laws of physics' include EVERYTHING, including that we humans haven't discovered yet.

It's all semantics I know, but I just want to know what JWs think a 'miracle' is.

Or is it yet another term deliberately ill-defined so they can keep moving the goalposts (like 'kind')?