Posts by IsaacJ22

18

Bible Students/Jehovah's Witnesses

by StAnn in

15 years ago

i hope i'm coherent here as i have a question.

from what i read somewhere in the numerous ex-jw publications, the majority of the bible students who followed c. t. russell were appalled by the changes that rutherford forcefully imposed and they refused to follow rutherford.

because rutherford was president of the corporation, the bible students could not keep the names of the watchtower and the ibs but left the organization under rutherford and have continued to this day, following russell's teachings, and still calling themselves the bible students.

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

I found this interesting as well. Especially since I remember quite a few references to how much Jehovah hates a rebellion (comparing "break off" churches to Satan's rebellion) during my WT days. There was actually a break off that formed at my old congregation, though it was before I started attended meetings. Apparently they became Bible Students and went back to "old truth" or something like that. For a while, they started sitting at the back of the Hall with their own chairs and they just stare at everyone to be intimidating. Finally, the Elders got them kicked off the premises. Or so the story goes.

A similar situation seems to have happened with the Mormons. There are actually 2 Mormon churches; the one everyone knows about, which has millions of followers, and the ORIGINAL, which has only thousands. I believe it is (or was) lead by John Smith's family.

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14

Aug 15 2010 WT - 3rd Study Article - Are they Serious!

by Simon Morley in

15 years ago

paragraph 17 states: "how should we respond when rumors about fellow believers are circulated by gods enemies?".

what about: "how we should respond when rumours about fellow believers are circulated by fellow believers?

my family was continually a victim of sewer level slander (not even gossip that resulted in murder - not physical but a character assassination.

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

One of the things that shocked me when I was first converted is how much infighting and backstabbing there was in the congregation, not to mention how suspicious they were of almost everyone. This is an even bigger deal at the KH, where a bad reputation can contribute to getting you disfellowshipped. Especially if the Elders on your judicial committee buy into the rumors. Maybe this is partly why JWs are so worried about what others think of them and why many seem like they're still living in the 50s.

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17

Circ. Ass. Last Weekend...oh boy!

by tresdecu in

jw
friends

15 years ago

so i had to suffer through the ca last weekend, it was rough at 1st, i was actually sick to my stomach the night before, fortunately my little boy kept me occupied during the session and i got to walk around a lot.. the do cracked down on 'true christians' watching vampire movies aka....twilight.

i know this series is hugely popular with a lot of teens and 20somthings, even a young elder and his wife (mostly the wife) are really into them.. he said true christians just don't watch such things.

haha.

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

I never liked the assemblies even when I was a believer. All the Witnesses I know seemed to love them back then. I've even known a lot of XJWs say they used to like the assemblies. Glad to see I'm not the only one.

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20

Fear of being shunned

by alfmel in

15 years ago

for those who have been jws and left,.

1. how much did you delay your departure due to the fear of being shunned?.

2. what percentage of the congregation would you estimate remains active due to the fear of being shuned if they were to leave?.

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

I left right away after I'd simply had enough. I had no WT relatives, only in-laws. Personally, I don't recommend fading or even hiding your disbelief while pretending to be a Witness. I think it's better to cut the cord and get it over with so you can start rebuilding your life. In the long run, I think you're better off. But then, I've never been close to my family. Perhaps I would feel differently if I was.

IsaacJ

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20

Tell me some good J.W buzz words.

by karter in

jw
friends

15 years ago

ill start it.. "the spirit annointed brotherhood".

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

"the world" and "worldly"

"faithful and discrete slave" and "the slave class" (which is ironically the ruling class)

"home but hiding"

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4

Henry Ford's Philosophy And Jehovah's Witnesses

by Bangalore in

15 years ago

henry ford's philosophy and jehovah's witnesses.. http://originalartstudio.blogspot.com/2010/05/henry-fords-philosophy-and-jehovahs.html.

bangalore.

.

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

I noticed this as well. It's a wonderful little engine for the Society. They drive demand and supply in synchronicity.

The assemblies are a big part of it. Witnesses go the assemblies, always hoping for some new literature. When I was a Witness, that was the high light of every convention as everything else is pretty much more of the same. Then the announcement comes that some new book or tract is available, and you HAVE to get your copy to be ready for the impending book study.

In theory, the literature is free, but as you know, you're expected to donate for it. A really good Witness donates enough for someone else to get a free copy too, in theory. Then you end up giving the literature out in field service. If someone takes it, you're expected to get a donation OR to donate for it yourself so the Society doesn't suffer a loss. They are a very poor billion dollar company.

One day, another book will come out. It'll have pretty much the same content. But you'll buy it too. On and on it goes.

The Witnesses are the Society's best, most loyal customers.

If only Publisher's Clearing House had such a perfect system...

IsaacJ

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17

Did JWs use you to get their time in?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

15 years ago

this has happened to me on more than one occasion.

a jw suddenly notices you at the hall and asks to work with you.

this continues for a while and then you are dropped.

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

I used to live within 5 miles of my old Kingdom Hall. I kept getting visits from people who barely even mentioned anything about the Society after I quit going to meetings. It was always as they were on their way to or from field service. This went on for a couple of years after I'd stop going. Most of them didn't bother trying to "re"convert me, so it seemed fairly obvious what their motives were. Once, a car group of teenagers came over and actually admitted they were just there to keep their time going. Like I had nothing else to do.

IsaacJ

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73

What Must Be the Case if Christianity is True?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

15 years ago

john loftus:.

what must be the case if christianity is true?.

that the highest created being, known as satan or the devil, led an angelic rebellion against an omnipotent omniscient omnibenelovent omnipresent god, and expected to win--which makes satan out to be pure evil and dumber than a box of rocks.. .

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

I always do get a kick ar humanity trying to "figure out" God.

Why wouldn't Satan rebel? he has free will like everyone else.

We rebel and we are "nothing", at least as an "angel" Satan has SOME measure of power greater than ours, supposedly.

Satan didn't rebel against God, he rebeled against US and is proving to God he was right about Us.

Not trying to be a wiseguy or anything, but I disagree with what Psacramento said above. The first issue -- why WOULDN'T Satan rebel? -- gets really circular real fast. I could ask, "Why WOULD Satan rebel unless he wanted something God wasn't providing? Why was he designed by God with the capacity to want things God didn't want him to have? Especially considering the outcome, which was imperfection and death." This is one reason people (atheists like me, for instance) question the idea that the creator's creation was perfect. We can run in circles with this one if we tried to discuss, I think.

As to the second point, about Satan being more powerful than us, he is still nothing compared to God isn't he? That is to say that there isn't any contest at work here. God could still squash him if he chose. So I don't see the difference.

I'm not sure what the last point changes. If he went against God's wishes, then he is still rebelling against God.

Just throwing some thoughts out there. Not trying to start an argument.

IsaacJ

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11

I`m talking to a group about JW`s I need your input ? please rerspond!!

by smiddy in

15 years ago

hi, guys,.

i`m a member of u3a in our local regional community,in a discussion group with approximately 16 members and have been asked to give my experiences to being a jehovah`s witness for 33 yrs and now classifying myself as an agnostic leaning towards atheism.i do of course have some idea how to proceed with this project,however your input would be greatly appreciated.i have 45 mins to present my case, then questions from others present would follow.i feel this would be a great advantage to show what the wtb&ts is all about,without coming across as a disgruntled,dissolutioned,bitter person with an axe to grind.which i am not.however i would like to present this "expose" if you like in a professional manner .this is to take place on the 26th of may.. now i`m not going to be all doom and gloom about the wtb&ts i will be highlighting some of their acheivements,the biggest single publishing organization,distributing millions of literature wordwide in numbers of languages that exceeds readers digest.at one time they had 4 publications in the guiness book of records in the top 10 most widely distributed publications available.and also in the early years they were the fore runners of religous freedoms.. so please feel free to contribute some information that will help some poor soul for falling victim to this insidious organization smiddy.

15 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

I would start with a brief description of your upbringing in the WT and a brief outline of a few basic differences that separate JWs from other Protestants. (Nonbelief in Trinity, not everyone goes to Heaven, Jesus isn't God but the archangel Michael, no holidays...) I'd make sure to mention any eye raising or interesting details. Especially ones that might be relevant to your transformation from a JW to an agnostic atheist. Then I'd spend some time talking about that transformation. It may help to talk about your values. Not just moral values, but talk about how your values (the things you consider to be important) have changed while explaining your transformation. Then you can point out the differences the values of JWs and your new values. For instance, maybe you're a freethinking and the WTS discourages freethinking. Or maybe you don't like their authitarianism and info control because they conflict with your values.

To avoid seeming like a bitter person with an axe to grind, it would be good avoid words like "cult" and "mind control." Instead, focus on the details of their behaviors which make them a cult in your mind and the things that made you leave. If your experiences contributed to your current views as an agnostic, this can help your narration flow from one topic to the other along with the thing about values I mentioned before. By explaining the reasons for your change in world view instead of telling your audience how to feel about those reasons (JWs are bad, the WTS is evil, etc), you are allowing the audience to reach their own conclusions. Be sure to include positives about JWs and the Society as well, then explain why--for you--this was not enough to keep you as a JW. Or why the bad qualities overuled the good ones for you--which is, in part, about your values.

Hope this helps.

IsaacJ

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52

Was it EX JW literature / WT's or the BIBLE which woke you up? Post scriptures if any....

by EndofMysteries in

15 years ago

i considered myself immune to ex jw stuff.

no amount of old watchtowers or anything would change me.

it was seeing treatment of others by elders and the bible itself, which woke me.

12 years ago

IsaacJ22 15 years ago

For me, it started out with some of the things being said from the podium. Like, "If you disagree with the Elders/Society, maybe you should try being more humble," and other things. That sort of attitude really threw me as it wasn't consistent with what I had THOUGHT the Society was. Bear in mind that I was also one who had a lot of difficulty with the Elders in our congregation (I was a teenager who's parents weren't in the Society) so I started blaming the individual Elders giving the talks for statements like these. To me, the hubris was getting tough to swallow and it bothered me a lot. Then I started reading some of these same comments in the magazines. I began to have real doubts.

Funny thing about this was that I kept trying to find the absolute, total devotion that I once had. But couldn't find it again. I'd begun to see that the Society was flawed.

Anyway, I finally just cracked. I was totally miserable and confused and had been so for a while. I was far more miserable as a JW than I'd ever been. So I decided to distance myself from the KH until I could sort things out. Within 2 weeks, the congregation started harrassing me and leaving 30 to 50 messages on my answering machine a day. They'd find me at the grocery store and give me MORE attitude and hubris. They'd confront me even in public places. So I got tired of it and began really looking into things and trying to decide if it was the Society or me. I felt too close to the subject at this point, but their badgering made me realize that I needed to figure things out at eventually--even after the worst of it had subsided after the first couple of years.

Later, I returned to the subject when my in-laws decided to start pressuring me about it again. Now, I had more distance than before and could really sort things out. The first thing I needed to know was should I still consider the Society as my "True Religion." I started trying to figure out questions like: "Is the Society sincere and honest? Do they have their facts straight? Is it me, or is it them?" You can guess which way my conclusions went.

My experiences caused me to reevaluate everything, including religion/gods in general. I didn't want to limit myself to Christianity per se. I began to see that they all have claims to "The Truth," but none of them necessarily has it. I began to see that the arguments made by atheists were more covnincing to me. Eventually, I began to see myself as an agnostic atheist or secular atheist. By this point, the Society had long been written off my list of possibilities.

IsaacJ

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