I am, too. I'm far more tolerant of other views now and don't feel guilty for thinking for myself. Also, I'm way less stressed, less miserable, and happier all around.
IsaacJ22
JoinedPosts by IsaacJ22
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21
Are You A Better Person Since Leaving The Witnesses?
by minimus inare you a better neighbor, friend, husband, wife, etc.
i'm much less judgmental of what people do or think.
i'm more tolerant and i think i have real friends that are not as conditional as my jw brethren.. what about you?.
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Finally talked to my dad about it...
by gutted inlast night i finally talked to my dad about some of my views and problems with being a witness.
he brought it up as he heard i am no longer going to meetings.. .
his line of reasoning was interesting, though very similar to "it's god's organization, just follow it".
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IsaacJ22
I agree with yknot, especially with the first 2 questions regarding why and how. Point out that you and your father have both met people out in service who wouldn't convert because they simply made up their minds that their current religion has "the truth." If they can be wrong, why can't he be wrong about the WTS? That's no basis for anything, really.
To merely accept the Society's claims and obey it's leaders is blind faith and blind obedience. You and he could both be throwing your lives away because you're following the wrong religion and didn't take the time to find out which religion has "the truth." God may hold you accountable. Isn't that worth something?
And how do you investigate the "trueness" of a religion? I can't think of any way, except to look at the details! And maybe at the organziation's behavior, which your father already admits is less than stellar when they try to coverup their gaffs instead of admitting to them.
BTW, I'm an atheist, so I'm merely talking strategy here. But you must focus on your father's feelings here, not his intellect. He obviously isn't following his reasoning very much if he's telling you to basically just go with it. I doubt an argument over the Society's reasoning about various issues will matter very much to him. If you sense he's wavering, that might be the time to start hitting him with other things. But until then, wouldn't bother. If nothing else, maybe you can get him to accept your reasons for leaving. I wouldn't get my hopes up about converting him to your way of thinking, though.
Best of luck either way.
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Has anyone read the book of mormom and compared to bible?
by EndofMysteries injust curious if the message is the same or anything extra in it.
i'll eventually read it to decide if i think it's in agreement and inspired.
to those who say no books would be added after revelation, i say read that scripture again, it's for the book of revelation itself.
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IsaacJ22
I know a little about Mormonism, but no where near enough to be an expert. I was actually looking into it when I went to my first meeting at the KH, and I have a couple of Mormon wannabes in my family. I would recommend you research them just as you would the WTS. The similarities are ... well, kinda disturbing if you're an XJW. And the story behind Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon is comically implausible. They even made fun of it on South Park.
If the WTS and the Church of Scientology had a child, it would look a lot the Mormon Church. They're a lot like the Society, only zanier by most American/Protestant standards. There are pleny of ex-Mormon sites on the web you can visit that clue you in on what I mean. Don't forget that some XMs are like some XJWs--some of them remember it fondly and unrealistically. I visit some of the XM sites on occassion just to see the similarities with my own WT experiences.
If it helps, bear in mind that the original Battlestar Galactica had a lot of Mormonism in it. It was a kind of scifi Mormon story. Kobol, for instance, sounds a lot like Kolob--a planet or star that the Mormons believe in. Also, the modern day version of the church is actually a breakoff of the original, just as the WTS can be considered a breakoff of the original Bible Students. There was lots of good stuff on Wikipedia on Mormons years ago. You might also want to check there. They'll have details about the Book of Mormon too.
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What Do You Do For Exercise?
by minimus inin the summer i play outdoor tennis nearly everyday for about an hour and a half.
i'm going to resume racquetball in the winter which is great for cardio!.
what's your exercise pattern like?.
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IsaacJ22
I still don't do enough. But I tried running for a while. Did as much walking as running, actually, but just running once a week made a big difference. Now, I shoot hoops in the backyard and want to start running again soon. Don't bother with fancy shoes, they don't help. They're actually more likely to cause injury. Running is very effective and costs nothing. The down side is that you need a place to run and if you're overweight you tend to prefer places where there aren't too many people around.
I also have a recumbant bike that I can use indoors, but anything outdoors is always better. Even if it's too hot or too cold outside. You get used to it.
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My wife has asked me to tone it down
by JWinprotest inlately i've been making a lot of negative comments about the wts at family gatherings, trying to plant seeds of doubt whenever i can.
but my wife thinks i'm going overboard and starting to raise suspicion.
we had a huge argument last night because i told her i'd rather not go to the gatherings at all than to stay quiet.
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IsaacJ22
I have had some similar problems with my in-laws. I can tell you that deliberately planting seeds of doubt is unlikely to work. You are merely antagonizing them and setting their apostate alarms off. In which case, they won't listen to you anyway. But I can totally relate to getting irritated with the child-like praise. Especially when it seems like they're just saying it to take a poke at you.
There have been times when I finally spoke up if they kept making comments like that. Not to plant a seed, but to stand up for my decision to leave the WTS and to point out that they don't always have all the facts. Also, it helped not feel like I was being walked on. Usually, the response was something like, "Those are just lies spread by apostates." Or, "They just make up stuff like that because they're jealous."
It was really hard not to laugh when I heard stuff like that. They're just evasions, though. They always turned away from me whenever they said them. I usually didn't push any harder than that; it was enough that they knew I wasn't on the same page. Any more and they would have seen me as the enemy.
Basically, people need to be ready to leave the WTS. The more you push them, the deeper they'll sink into the WTS's protective cocoon. And the further from you they will slink. It tends to have the opposite effect of the one you want. I would suggest that it's enough that they know you see things differently and that they understand you have decent reasons for it.
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When men were made Elders, did you notice their personality change?
by carvin ini thought about this after reading flippers thread about how elders are appointed.
great thread by the way.. i can recall many times when guys were made elders, and sometimes even made ms that their personility would change almost over night.
i knew many nice, kind, elders and ms but many especially newly appionted ones would be, at times, just difficult to be around.
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IsaacJ22
I've seen some cases like Blondie described. There was one Elder in particular at my old congregation who truly seemed to give a darn, but he was constantly berated by the other Elders and even censored by the Presiding Overseer (who I was studying with at the time). He was the only one who took much interest in my situation, as the first Elder I was studying with was the congregations #1 bully and he kept ordering me and others around. I really think the guy had some sort of mental problem.
I've seen this sort of thing from people who become managers, too. There's supposedly a lot of junk and paperwork that goes with being an Elder. And there's the stress of the added duties. Some of it may be that pressure leaking through, just as it does with so-called "worldly" supervisors on the job. Of course, Elders are supposed to be there to serve the congregation rather than lording it over the flock, but I digress. Ultimately, it's easier to abuse your authority than it is to be humble. Even while you're telling others to be more humble. Many an Elder at my old congregation would quote the line about double honor at every single talk they gave!
Power corrupts. That's the bottom line, I think.
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Long Distance Adultery and Other Issues
by buddhaisbetter inallow me a moment to introduce myself: first of all, i am not a member of your faith as surely can be garnered from my choice of user name.
i joined this forum with the intention of getting some information on a situation i'm forced to contend with that concerns my son.
my questions are not designed to bash your beliefs, regardless of my personally held opinions and i hope that any discussion can be conducted without contention.
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IsaacJ22
Some very liberal congregations do exist, but generally, I suspect that she either isn't fully a JW (maybe not baptized) or she is, as others have said, lying. It may be that SHE decided on the compromise you mentioned--that she can still have contact if the husband is around--but I doubt the Elders did. If any Elder did, he did it on his own and would probably be disciplined by the local body of Elders for it, or at least rebuked in some fashion. That simply isn't how it works.
JWs can't even go on dates without a chaperone around here--even if they have grandkids!
This sounds like a bad situation all around. I feel for you, and your son. Sounds like he's lonely. Ultimately, the smart thing would be for her to get her situation straight before he moves there. That means leaving her husband. But getting your son to take that advice is another matter. Like many others here, I am an ex-Witness, so bear that in mind when I tell you that becoming a JW isn't necessarily such a good thing. I can't tell you how easy it might be for your son to get pulled into the Watchtower Society, especially if he's far away from all he knows. Hopefully, if it gets that far, she will break it off with the Society anyway...or be disfellowshipped. Maybe then your son won't get pulled in and won't get hurt either. That's the best that can be hoped for. Sadly, it sounds like a long shot. :-(
Best of luck. And yes, you came to the right place for advice on this.
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" i was out in the world and belive me!! Its a terrible place! We are so blessed to be in the truth!"
by highdose inthis is an assertion leveled at me recently.
the speaker has the advantage over me in that i was born and bred in the borg and have only recently jumped ship.. what, can i ask would your responce be to this?.
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IsaacJ22
Here's one (hope no one mentioned it yet):
"Are you trying to convince me, or just yourself?"
Then stare at them until they come up with a response.
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Has anyone ever asked a Catholic if they hate us like we are told they do?
by life is to short inevery since i was a little kid all i have heard is how the catholic's hate us, how they persecute us, even beat us in some third world country's.
they insight their members to hate us and pelt us with rocks, tar and feather us, on and on.
in fact rummer has it that in one small town by us the slit the tires of all the jw's cars in the late 60 when they were holding a ca.
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IsaacJ22
I worked for a lady that was a Catholic when I was still a JW. We talked a little about religion once. She seemed completely oblivious to any hostility. I also had Catholic god parents before I was even a JW, and they never even used the term.
I really doubt they give a darn, unless there should happen to be a lot Catholics and JWs in the same neighborhood. Otherwise, they WTS is like a bug to the Catholic church, isn't it?
Of course, the Catholics were proselytizing and making converts of all the nations LONG before the WTS.
I'm not a Catholic (atheist, actually) but I just had to get that in for those who tire of hearing JWs talk about how awesome they are.
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Disrespect of the Bible
by brotherdan ini am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.
i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.
notice the word "some".
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IsaacJ22
Brotherdan, I wanted to let you know that I'm not upset with you over your post. But I did think you were teetering a bit close to the line, and so I had something to say about that. Like others have mentioned, this isn't the KH. I wouldn't want to see you attacked on the board for stating an opinion like that--at worst, you should only be attacked if you attacked first. And I wouldn't say that you attacked us, though I didn't like some of the directions you were going. Like you, I was just speaking up. I tried to be honest, not accusatory or overly reactionary in my response.
I did want to mention one other thing. I actually think people ask for too much respect when it comes to holy things, or even their ideas/opinions about those holy things or beliefs. If we can't criticize them, then we can't discuss them fully. And if they matter, we should be able to discuss them. That's how I feel about it at least.
Religion influences people's thinking, even how they vote. So I honestly don't feel that people can ask us to go "hands off" with holy matters. This may sound mean, but in my experience, when people ask for respect for their religion, they're usually asking for deference--not respect. To me, beliefs are just opinions with a lot emotion behind them. And beliefs can be wrong, both factually and--by the standards of others--morally. Everyone should have the right to point that out object. Likewise, we can't ask everyone to see our holy things as holy. That's just not how it works.
Beliefs do not have feelings or rights; people have feelings and rights, but their opinions must earn respect from others. When we ask for deference/respect simply because someone somewhere thinks something is holy, I believe we are really asking others to put our opinions above their rights to speak out and object. I'm not comfortable doing that to others, even if my feelings get hurt in the process. I would even say we are being a bit too sensitive if we ask this, and we should learn to handle criticism of our beliefs better.
I'm not saying that to be mean, only pointing out that holy things are part of a much larger world. One man's holy thing is another man's no-big-deal. Ultimately, it is not the holy thing that is being hurt by criticism; it is the feelings of those who see it as holy. And those believers must learn to cope if they wish to interact with others. Don't put your holy thing out there to the world and then demand that no one should criticise. Someone may even point at it and laugh! We need thicker skins than that.
My JW inlaws often use this excuse to hide from criticism. Not saying that's what you're doing, but several have tried it when I complain about their attempts to reconvert me. Should I be their punching bag and let them ramble on and on about the WTS and Jehovah at my expense? Should I let them use the Bible to whack me over the head whenever they quote from it? Or should I stand up for myself an point out the problems, the flaws, and how none of it is sacred to me? Again, not trying to be mean, only putting the ideas out there and hoping you will see where we critics are coming from.
So I can't agree with you on this. But I'm not mad about it or at you. Peace! Oh, and sorry for so many long posts.