hi, i'm a new member that enjoys civil debate, so i thought i'd just throw a topic out there.. if we take the standard, contemporary judeo-christian god (all-knowing, all powerful, and perfectly good in every possible way) and attempt to incorporate free will, we end up with a contradiction.
an all knowing being knows everything that has occured, is occuring and will occur, if otherwise then we can not consider this being to know all.
if god knows all that will happen, then he knows our decisions, as well as the outcomes of those decisions.
Good question Ubermensch. The answer for me is a little simple. We must perceive time in a different manner. Possibly a skewed manner and God obviously does not perceived time in the same manner that we do. That is the only way that we can have free will and have an all-knowing God.
Think of it as being in a centerfuge where you feel like you are on your back. Out side the machine we can all see you are really just up against the wall vertically. Perception of space.
i was reading through this article: http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/thechurch.html.
1822: mormons founded by joseph smith, who made his appearance with supposed revelations in 1822.. .
1872: the jehovah's witness church was developed by charles russell.. .
Catholics see everyone that is not Catholic to be branched off from them as the original church.
the stress on jehovah's witness elders raising their children in "the truth" is causing many to literally go mad.. keeping their children in " the spiritual ark" is becoming more and more difficult.. many elders are snapping under the pressure.. one of our guests on the six screens conference call told of her elder father ( who everyone at the kingdom hall thought was an angel) came home from the meeting and killed the family dog in the kitchen with his bookbag as the family looked on....... join us tonight oct. 22, 2011 at 7 pm edt.
.... our guest will be wendy lee tucker former jw whose father was an elder and terribly abused her physically and emotionally.. she received horrific beatings..... hit with a bat, punched at, receiving a broken nose and became a prisoner in her home.. wendy was looked in her room with the doors being nailed shut when the family went off to the kingdom hall.. a far cry fom being a "spiritual paradise".
it is easy to get on the call....no computer is necessary.... just dial 712-432-8710 and when asked for pin use 9925. our lines open at 6:30 pm edt.....so come on early and talk with all those who have been "touched by the tentacles of the watchtower".
Red, calm down. Handle a little criticism. You put yourself in this position by saying something. You put your thoughts out there to be commented on just like Rick does.
Rick has a huge body of work full of hyperbole, inaccuracies, ad hominem attacks, and poorly constructed arguments. When you have all that available and and you attack the person it makes your argument look weak. When you have all that available and you drag his family into it, it makes your character look weak.
None of us are perfect and few of us know each other personally. I don't think it's asking too much to restrain our comments to his work. You never know he might be saving drowning orphans when he isn't working on six screens.
sacramento vicinity (loomis, rocklin, sunset congregations): court documents were just issued charging derek packowski and the watchtower society corporations.
the papers were filed by the legal firm of nolen saul brelsford of sacramento, california.
the child molestor and said corporations headed by the governing body over jehovah?s witnesses, were charged with not reporting to law enforcement and systematically conspiring and suppressing information about sexual molestation committed by packowski when he was in a congregation in des plaines, illinois, also after about 1984 and later in california at the loomis congregation from which formed the rocklin and sunset congregations.
I wasn't publicy disputing a "moderators decision". I was disputing Mr. Wood's decision to posting on a thread that he knew he didn't want to read on the first place. It was newsworthy, timely, and posted in the appropiate forum. However, Mr. Woods' sensibilities were disturbed so I guess a mod was alerted. Ofcourse I don't know that for sure, so there would be no knowledge of any such mod decision for me to criticize.
Thanks for posting the guidelines like I can't read them.
I don't need to get over anything. I am the one that can handle that sometimes, bad things happen to bad people when a bunch of dirty, tired, fighters get a hold of them. Especially if that bad person raped, killed, tortured their friends and family for decades. I know it's not rainbows but it was a thread I thought had some interesting dialouge.
Anyways, this crap is what discourages people from posting or hanging around after they get over their JW issues. Simon "Blow me up"! Cage out!
the stress on jehovah's witness elders raising their children in "the truth" is causing many to literally go mad.. keeping their children in " the spiritual ark" is becoming more and more difficult.. many elders are snapping under the pressure.. one of our guests on the six screens conference call told of her elder father ( who everyone at the kingdom hall thought was an angel) came home from the meeting and killed the family dog in the kitchen with his bookbag as the family looked on....... join us tonight oct. 22, 2011 at 7 pm edt.
.... our guest will be wendy lee tucker former jw whose father was an elder and terribly abused her physically and emotionally.. she received horrific beatings..... hit with a bat, punched at, receiving a broken nose and became a prisoner in her home.. wendy was looked in her room with the doors being nailed shut when the family went off to the kingdom hall.. a far cry fom being a "spiritual paradise".
it is easy to get on the call....no computer is necessary.... just dial 712-432-8710 and when asked for pin use 9925. our lines open at 6:30 pm edt.....so come on early and talk with all those who have been "touched by the tentacles of the watchtower".
I think Rick has noble intentions, his method of making an argument is severly flawed. He basically does things like the society does. His logic is off and his argumentation is reversed.
Rick has never done anything to me so I got no problem being unbiased.
Leave the guys kids alone, not cool.
hey guys,.
hoping to get your input.. i had a conversation with my dh recently and i asked him what would need to happen for him to question his belief system.
he said that something unscripted needs to be taught by the society.. now there are many things i can bring up...i have heard you suggest not to argue with doctrine...but he is asking for it.
You can't logically convince someone to leave something like the JW's. There is too much emotional entanglement and dependency like a drug. He like any other human will only discontinue the behavior when it no longer produces a perceived benefit. He will leave quicker if it creates problems. He will never see any of this just because some else can see it.
sacramento vicinity (loomis, rocklin, sunset congregations): court documents were just issued charging derek packowski and the watchtower society corporations.
the papers were filed by the legal firm of nolen saul brelsford of sacramento, california.
the child molestor and said corporations headed by the governing body over jehovah?s witnesses, were charged with not reporting to law enforcement and systematically conspiring and suppressing information about sexual molestation committed by packowski when he was in a congregation in des plaines, illinois, also after about 1984 and later in california at the loomis congregation from which formed the rocklin and sunset congregations.
And the topic of my thread wasn't how much of what happens in the real world you can stomach. Relevant news story listed on CNN, we talk about that sort of stuff all the time on here.
the stress on jehovah's witness elders raising their children in "the truth" is causing many to literally go mad.. keeping their children in " the spiritual ark" is becoming more and more difficult.. many elders are snapping under the pressure.. one of our guests on the six screens conference call told of her elder father ( who everyone at the kingdom hall thought was an angel) came home from the meeting and killed the family dog in the kitchen with his bookbag as the family looked on....... join us tonight oct. 22, 2011 at 7 pm edt.
.... our guest will be wendy lee tucker former jw whose father was an elder and terribly abused her physically and emotionally.. she received horrific beatings..... hit with a bat, punched at, receiving a broken nose and became a prisoner in her home.. wendy was looked in her room with the doors being nailed shut when the family went off to the kingdom hall.. a far cry fom being a "spiritual paradise".
it is easy to get on the call....no computer is necessary.... just dial 712-432-8710 and when asked for pin use 9925. our lines open at 6:30 pm edt.....so come on early and talk with all those who have been "touched by the tentacles of the watchtower".
I think Rick is honest and passionate.
I will say this Rick. I don't like or dislike you one way or the other.
You are a bit of a sensasionalist and your structure is exact opposite of what I would use. For example on your website under your explanation of the "six screens" you conclude each section with "In a nutshell". That paragraph should be your first not your last, it clearly states what the rest of the section is about for the reader.
Your details like an elder beating the family dog should reinforce an argument or thesis instead of becoming one. I blame the way the WTBS writes especially in the 80's and 90's. They use logically fallicies all day in their writing. It's a good place to learn them to avoid them.
I hope this helps you and helps others take you more seriously in the future. It seems like you put a lot of effort into what you do.
-Cage
sacramento vicinity (loomis, rocklin, sunset congregations): court documents were just issued charging derek packowski and the watchtower society corporations.
the papers were filed by the legal firm of nolen saul brelsford of sacramento, california.
the child molestor and said corporations headed by the governing body over jehovah?s witnesses, were charged with not reporting to law enforcement and systematically conspiring and suppressing information about sexual molestation committed by packowski when he was in a congregation in des plaines, illinois, also after about 1984 and later in california at the loomis congregation from which formed the rocklin and sunset congregations.
Now your just tormenting me by bumping the thread! Seiously child molestation really disgusts me. If I lose my lunch you will never hear the end of it. I can't keep my fingers from clicking on it, even though the topic is clearly and accurately marked.
Annoying isn't it Mr. Woods.
sacramento vicinity (loomis, rocklin, sunset congregations): court documents were just issued charging derek packowski and the watchtower society corporations.
the papers were filed by the legal firm of nolen saul brelsford of sacramento, california.
the child molestor and said corporations headed by the governing body over jehovah?s witnesses, were charged with not reporting to law enforcement and systematically conspiring and suppressing information about sexual molestation committed by packowski when he was in a congregation in des plaines, illinois, also after about 1984 and later in california at the loomis congregation from which formed the rocklin and sunset congregations.
James maybe you should email the mods and ask for a 12th commandment to be added. Only topics relevant to the X-JW experience. I can't figure out the rules here. It's kind of like the KH some days. I am out.....
