Why should we believe that only mankind was made in the beginning? John 1:2 says that the Word was in the beginning with God, not that he had a beginning. It is the same beginning that Gen. 1 and 2 speak about. There weren't three beginnings: one for Jesus, one for the universe, and one for man.
Kenneson,
In John the only beginning under discussion is the beginning of man, the ones our Lord came to redeem. When the Word, the universe or anything else came into existence is not being discussed in the text.
Kenneson said: Col. 1:16 says that through Jesus all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all things and by means of him all things were made to exist." This is not speaking of only things on earth: mankind. The Word is already in existence in the beginning. John 1:2
Again the all things under discussion by Paul are common human beings, governments both near and far away. They are even identified specifically as being: thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Words have multiple definitions and depth of meaning. In Col 1 Paul is comparing such humans outside the faith with those within the faith. In this case we learn that: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. The all things, the humans now identified and described both inside and outside the faith is all that is being discussed. That many have misrepresented this text and abused the meaning of such words should be self evident.
Kenneson said: Heb. 1:3 depicts Jesus as being co-creator of the universe with the Father. Does it make sense to believe that Jesus existed in the beginning but that he didn't actually do anything until he made man?
Heb 1:3 says no such thing and one can only wonder where such theology came from. 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
The worlds under discussion in Hebrews are the same worlds Paul described in detail in Col 1 and John described in John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Such worlds, human but by this time complex and divided into many civilizations are the worlds under discussion. All this talk about when the Word came into existence or even the angels amounts to nothing more than a distraction as it is not discussed in the texts. How the universe and this planet came into existence on the other hand is well covered as already shown by: Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
The finer detail however as to who created the human race on the earth that the LORD spredeth by himself should not get mixed up into the discussion. Even when the word God is used for the Word who was given this responsibility, no conflict exists as this designation of responsibility is also contained within the term God. The fact that God was with God in the beginning and given the task of creating us and later becoming human is proof enough that one of them, the one that became human in fact was not the Supreme Being but as we learned later would become our King (such Kings were called God in scripture). 2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Authority, good or bad, real or imagined can be and is identified by the term God in the text. Perhaps some make too much of it when they try and use it to force identity instead its real application being that of authority.
Joseph
