Posts by JosephMalik

25

Beware Deceivers

by Doug Mason in

i know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of matthew 24/ mark 13/ luke 21.. i have prepared a study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.. the address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/beware_deceivers.pdf.

thanks,.

doug.

JosephMalik

I would appreciate comments on the following thoughts about what the disciples had in mind when they asked Jesus about his parousia:

Doug,

The question was: Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And the answer was a history lesson along with an application of the Book of Daniel. This is not what the disciples had in mind as you surmised but it was the correct answer and it was what the Faith needed to know as well so it was now passed on to them in this way. What the disciples wanted to know was: Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? If this somehow involved the temple and its buildings then so be it but the end of the world and the Kingdom to Israel re-established here on earth was clearly on their minds.

Doug said: 1. Later events show that the disciples did not at that time understand that it would be an invisible presence.

It would not be an invisible presence. This is a falsehood preached by many even during such early days of the faith which John eventually identified as antichrist. What the disciples experienced was: 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. This was a physical experience which would some day be repeated like this: 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. So verses that show our Lord coming in the clouds could now be interpreted literally not symbolically as many do. This would clarify the function and purpose of such a return since such additional data would now be available and it would establish the sought for Kingdom to Israel in answer to their question.

Doug said: 2 They looked for the Messiah to deliver the Jewish nation from bondage to Rome and to display glorious power in doing so. In other words, they looked for him to do at his first presence things he was actually to do at his second presence.

Sure, but it did not happen did it? In fact they all died under Roman authority, some even being executed by it. Such an answer would have been wrong and yet the question was answered properly each time. If your Lord answered the way they surmised, the prophecy would have easily been shown to be false and they as well as we would not be still waiting for such a parousia.

Doug said: 3. They did not appreciate that he would not sit on an earthly throne.

This is another false teaching as the Kingdom would indeed be here on earth. Our Lord said to his disciples: Luke 22: 29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Why else would they ask him such questions in the first place? They were after all specifically directed to matters on this earth and their participation in them.

Doug said: 4. They had no idea that Jesus would rule as a glorious spirit from the heavens.

Symbolic texts and words such as Kingdom (Jewish for God) and heaven (Jewish for authority) along with other meanings are largely responsible for such thinking. This is common to many denominations and without realizing it, represents far eastern thought that after a period of time here on earth one eventually reaches a state of nirvana. While many no longer think of our Lord as human, the scriptures do and have even said of such a human: 1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

This Jesus Christ was human, the only human to gain immortality so far. But this same human is now capable to bring such immortality to light for others through the gospel. It took a human seed to die for us and we as human seeds can expect nothing more when resurrected or changed.

Doug said: 5.They therefore did not know that his second presence would be invisible.

His appearance to Paul was not as a human. This prevents our taking that event as the second presence or parousia. But our Lords appearance when he returns will indeed be human as promised by the men in white robes. Surely they knew more than we do and their authoritative statement is beyond dispute.

Doug said: 6. They knew the prophecy of Daniel 7:13, 14 would be fulfilled somehow, but wondered how.

The prophecy in Daniel chapter 12 is much closer to what was actually said. Wording does not have to be exact. You should pay closer attention to them. And they include the resurrection. Such future life was what the Law was all about not extending present life which some claim it means. Martha made this clear for us when she said: Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. By making better people the Law made such resurrection possible for the nation of Israel. Daniel was well aware of this and included this resurrection hope in it at such an end. The rest of your questions are pure speculation based on the false teachings of others and were already covered here. Speculation can help us think but what results should be based on what was written for us.

Joseph

12

Looking for Rose Ball's grave

by Doug Mason in

does anyone know where rose ball henninges is buried?

i know she died in 1950, aged 81, in preston, victoria, australia, but i have drawn a blank looking for her headstone.

i have already asked the henninges people here, and they could not help me.

JosephMalik

Doug,

Well you made the big time at least. I googled Rose Ball Hemmings and your post above came up first. On second thought my computer did that automatically as Google is installed. Nice to know.You can contact:

Burwood Cemetery Trust Mr J Morkham Secretary 74 Burwood Highway Burwood 3125 9808 1554

Joseph

25

Beware Deceivers

by Doug Mason in

i know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of matthew 24/ mark 13/ luke 21.. i have prepared a study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.. the address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/beware_deceivers.pdf.

thanks,.

doug.

JosephMalik

My intention is to consider Jesus’ answer as if the reader was one of the disciples sitting at his feet on the Mount of Olives. What did their questions mean to them, what did his answer mean to them? If a person wants to derive a secondary meaning, then when this primary meaning has been determined, any secondary application must directly relate.

Doug,

The problem with this analysis is that the answer was not intended for them. Right up to the time that He was taken up they still did not know and would die without knowing. Jesus had already prophesied concerning Jerusalem’s untimely end and rejection at Matt chapter 23. And Jesus applied Daniel’s prophetic work to what would be a prophetic statement or parable intended for much later in time. We keep hearing Jerusalem, Jerusalem, but look at the other accounts in Matt and Mark and what do we see? We see "holy place" in Matt: and "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not," in Mark And the words in Daniel spoken of here are well beyond their lifetimes. Since a presence and a sign are part of this prophecy, where was the presence in their time? And it is a time that no one knows except for the Father. It is a time still in the future.

Doug said: Jesus was asked about the Temple and he answered them about the Temple. To the disciples, the destruction of the Temple meant the end of Judaism, the end of the Jewish "Age".

The Jewish age ended at Pentecost. The Kingdom was offered to Gentiles some three years later but the Law would no longer serve that purpose anymore. It was finished, gone, over. Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Doug said: The disciples thought that the end of the Jewish Age would finally result in Jesus being openly declared and recognized as the redeeming King that the Jews had longed for. Matthew uses the word "parousia" which was a word that speaks of the grand entry of a leading dignitary, such as a Governor or a King. Their parousias required much preparation of the town they were visiting, even building new roads, and the minting of a special coin. It was a grand event. This is how the disciples envisaged the destruction of the Temple and the ensuing parousia. It was not a prophecy, it was a question in the mouth of the disciples in Matthew’s account.

The problem with this thinking is that the temple was still there so it’s destruction did not have to come first did it since they asked the question? Their hope was real this much was true and this earth would be the place for this Kingdom yes, as this much was not refuted by our Lord. But the sign, the parousia, this time they did not know since our Lord only told it to them in prophecy. The prophecy did not reveal this time to them and they would make no application of it during their lives.

Doug said: Another key issue is Jesus’ admonition to "beware of deceivers", hence the title of the presentation. To me, Jesus’ told his disciples to beware of people who would be spreading stories about wars, earthquakes and such, as if they were the sign which alerted followers to the destruction of Jerusalem. Rather, said Jesus, watch out for the Roman armies when they encamp about the city.

And this has been going on for nearly two thousand years now. We call it the Gospel age as this is nothing more than an introduction to the sign that also is found in Daniel. The sign starts with the "abomination." But where you say the city, others say "holy place" or "where it ought not" and Jerusalem was no longer a holy place after Pentecost. It would now be the Faith, the message of salvation, the "holy ones" a new Jerusalem since then. Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Doug said: Jesus said that the destruction would happen within their generation, but they did not know this meant it would take place in another 40 years.

Jesus did not say that. Seems like everyone says that and many teach it as well. But what He did say was "this generation" the generation that He was really discussing would result in His presence and coming in the clouds of heaven as stated in all three Gospels. It was an absolute truth, guaranteed in fact 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. but it did not happen 40 years later. We are still waiting for this fulfillment. So "this generation" is still ahead of us if it has not started already. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

But it is your presentation so you can do whatever you like with it. At least you can now see the kind of questions others may ask of you. You need to be prepared to answer them.

Joseph

62

My dumplings turned out crappy.

by IP_SEC in

jw
friends

so i spooned them out of my chicken and dumplings and turned it into chicken guisado instead... .

im glad i have tortillas.. just thought you should know.

.

JosephMalik

IP_Sec,

I use Annies dumplings found in the frozen food section. They are also called Pastry and are flat strips. For chicken and pastry I also use a lot of celery and a cut up onion when I boil the chicken in water and chicken stock. Also a few spices go in to boot along with salt and pepper. A 6 to 7 pound package of chicken thigh's or breast will make plenty of meals for later and it warms up well. Discard the onion, celery and chicken bones or leave just a little celery in the frozen meals for effect later.

Joseph

25

Beware Deceivers

by Doug Mason in

i know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of matthew 24/ mark 13/ luke 21.. i have prepared a study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.. the address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/beware_deceivers.pdf.

thanks,.

doug.

JosephMalik

Zarco,

Masada 73CE You can Google it.

Joseph

25

Beware Deceivers

by Doug Mason in

i know that you are all very familiar with the early verses of matthew 24/ mark 13/ luke 21.. i have prepared a study on these verses and am seeking constructive criticisms and advice.. the address is: http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940/beware_deceivers.pdf.

thanks,.

doug.

JosephMalik

Doug,

The presentation is nice. It pretty much depicts the verses as written. There is not much need for a presentation however if we can simply read them for ourselves. Now the real trick is to explain what they mean. For example is the Gospel age depicted in here and if so where? When do the verses apply historically? For example do any apply to 70CE and the destruction of the literal temple? What part of the presentation applies to the sign we are supposed to look for that makes up this generation? When does the end come in relation to this sign or this generation? Does Jerusalem refer to the literal city or something else? Since Daniel is involved here then what verses in Daniel are we talking about and what do they mean? You know the things everyone wants to know. But perhaps that is beyond what you had in mind.

Joseph

P.S. I took another look and saw your application to 70CE and the destruction of Jerusalem. Everyone does that you know. But the parousia did not take place then. Why? Was the prophecy flawed? And those that fled to the mountains died. Why? Did they get bad advice? This is a problem and such contradictions should be examined.

JM

48

Where's the Great Crowd?

by Mrs. Witness in

sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but i'm at work and don't have time to search...i'm having a discussion (argument) with my jw hubby about the location of the great crowd.

we've looked at rev.

4 through 7 and he agrees with me that everything is in heaven "before the throne" until we get to the great crowd... does anyone have any easy-to-understand comments on this subject?

JosephMalik

The old JW Greek diaglot was plain- the 144,000 and the Great Crowd that were before the throne had the same Greek word for 'before'.

Moshe,

They are both together symbolically in the texts this is true. Literally they are here where our Lord will be at that time.

Sarah, I do not quite understand what you mean but it looks like you are saying the same thing I am. This is a Kingdom, and a Kingdom has subjects, and others that look over such subjects at different levels of authority as they serve the King. So then a great crowd and 144000 are essential to make this work. Just as Paul said: 1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? Angels is often used of Jews in the faith that existed in times past. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? Non-spirit beings are not heirs of salvation but humans are. It was even used of Egyptians that left Egypt (their first estate), embraced the Faith and left with the Israelites for similar reasons but later sinned . Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Not much different than what we have today.

Joseph

11

looking for a good definition of "anointed"

by Shawn10538 in

looking for both a biblical usage and a wt definition of term.

thanks in advance!

JosephMalik

Just as there is a first resurrection and a second, everything is not equal. Everyone can't be part of the first resurrection.

JC,

There is no such thing as a second resurrection. There is only resurrection period. Not everyone is considered as having come to life during their resurrection, this much is true as they must undergo further training and pass a test. The ones that are Justified then are spoken of having participated in a first resurrection, over which the second death has no authority but that is simply a description of their status in the Kingdom not when or how they are actually raised.

Joseph

11

looking for a good definition of "anointed"

by Shawn10538 in

looking for both a biblical usage and a wt definition of term.

thanks in advance!

JosephMalik

Annointed, NIV or Unction KJV A simple term that the WT has turned into a nightmare for you. And millions bow down and serve them. Can anyone imagine how disgusting this is to God? The simple definition is: #1Jo 2:20,27 R.V., "anointing". Kings, prophets, and priests were anointed, in token of receiving divine grace. All believers are, in a secondary sense, what Christ was in a primary sense, "the Lord’s anointed." And used in a sentence it goes like this:

1 John 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.

So is anyone in the WT annointed? No! Not one of them. They lied to you but millions are still afraid of them. And they wait on every word, every lie that comes from then instead of: And: 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit— just as it has taught you, remain in him. 28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. Continue with "who?" Jehovah? No, Christ since only by serving Christ can we also have the Father. They got it all wrong. They are still living in the OT under the Law covenant looking to Jehovah their Christ for salvation while we are under a New Covenant for salvation that has a new Messiah or Christ. 22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist— he denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us— even eternal life. It is that simple.

Joseph

48

Where's the Great Crowd?

by Mrs. Witness in

sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but i'm at work and don't have time to search...i'm having a discussion (argument) with my jw hubby about the location of the great crowd.

we've looked at rev.

4 through 7 and he agrees with me that everything is in heaven "before the throne" until we get to the great crowd... does anyone have any easy-to-understand comments on this subject?

JosephMalik

Ok. Might as well finish the story. It goes like this for the great crowd:

20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Some are identified by name’s that symbolize they are enemies of the faith of one sort or another and dealt with. The devil is now permanently dealt with as well so those remaining no longer have to face such scrutiny. The earth will now be filled as originally intended. To some it may look like the resurrection has not started yet because of the verses that follow this. But the Revelation is a series of parables that cover all or parts of the Kingdom over and over just like the parables of the Kingdom our Lord gave in Matt 24 and 25. So the verses that follow simply show how the Nations mentioned in verse 3 (the great crowd in this discussion) some of which turn out to be Gog and Magog, got there in the first place.

Joseph