Posts by JosephMalik

5

The 'Gentile Times' started in 70AD not 607BCE!!!!

by yadda yadda 2 in

from john denton's amazing website: http://www.tangotango.org.uk/.

did the gentile times start in 607 bc?.

some authorities on bible prophecy having accepted russell's calculations, teach that the 2,520 years of the gentile times started in 607 bc, when they reckon the last god approved king zedekiah reigned over jerusalem as god's representative king, 2,520 years from this date ends in 1914. following are six reasons why this assumption is inaccurate.

JosephMalik

Malik, the first sentence in your post doesn't make sense to me. Can you elaborate? And those other scriptures are talking about the beginning of humankind, not of some period of time when the gentiles could be said to be trampling on something. What exactly are you saying in your post, that the times of the Gentiles started from Abraham?

Yadda 2,

That’s right. It is a typo that I did not notice until it was too late to correct. It should have said 607BCE instead of 70CE. I did this quickly without checking. And yes those other scriptures are talking about the beginning of humankind because that is when such Gentile Times began. While the prophecy was concerned about world conditions during a specific generation, all the players were around for much longer than that as Matt and Mark show. Luke did not say they were not, he simply identified one of these players by giving them this Gentile identity.

Yadda 2 said: It seems entirely reasonable to me that the times of the gentiles starts when the Jewish system of worship was finally abandoned by Jehovah and destroyed, ie, 70AD and it finishes when heavenly Jerusalem is created in heaven, which is a future time.

But we know that they had to be there all along. The Jewish religion did not end simply because their Temple was destroyed. They were living all over the world at the time and most of them never saw it. They continued on. In fact it still has not ended. 70CE means nothing but more war as prophecied so we should not be alarmed. The Jewish system really ended with our Lord’s death if you want to be precise and replaced at Pentecost when authority was passed to our Lord’s disciples continue in its place. So when did such Gentiles have their beginning? I was simply showing that the WT’s interpretation of Gen 3:15 is wrong and this is why we do not see it. They apply the seed to Christ who was a seed of the woman Eve who because of this: 3:20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. This entire seed of Eve that was not of the serpent would later fulfil something like: 20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. Simple. Now we know the foundation text for parables such as the wheat and weeds, or sheep and goats that have always existed since this beginning as were such Gentiles mixed in among them.

Joseph

5

The 'Gentile Times' started in 70AD not 607BCE!!!!

by yadda yadda 2 in

from john denton's amazing website: http://www.tangotango.org.uk/.

did the gentile times start in 607 bc?.

some authorities on bible prophecy having accepted russell's calculations, teach that the 2,520 years of the gentile times started in 607 bc, when they reckon the last god approved king zedekiah reigned over jerusalem as god's representative king, 2,520 years from this date ends in 1914. following are six reasons why this assumption is inaccurate.

JosephMalik

How could the Gentiles trample down Jerusalem in 70CE if they were not already in existence and a powerful force in the world long before then? This is just as true for the year 70CE or any other year that we can think of as well. And why do so many run all over the Bible with a lot of unrelated facts when the answer was always there in scripture staring them in the face? Where? Well right from the start where it said: Ge 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; He will bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel. There always was a Gentile Times bruising the other seed then throughout history as there always were two seeds existing side by side in conflict with faithful ones who finally win out in the end. Cain killed Able right from this early start. And because of their badness the world had to suffer a flood and the confusion of its language during such early history. But can we clear this up a bit more? Where would you go for a more explicit answer to this question? To the very verses that discuss these Gentile times. Everyone runs to Luke and think they have the answer because it says:

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

But when did such Gentiles start. When they surrounded the Jerusalem that Luke discussed? No! They existed then but did not start then. How do we know? Because Matthew and Mark discussed this same prophecy and these same Gentile times in this way:

Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

The end is the same. The ones involved are the same. The prophecy is the same. The words Gentile times were not used here but Luke cleared this up for us by providing the identity of this seed. Mt. And Mark identified such Gentile from their beginning to their end. Luke did not contradict this and simply gave them identity. And we do not have to use texts out of context to make this point.

Joseph

39

What do you think Jesus meant...

by Newborn in

...when he said "the one that has endured to the end will be saved"?.

thanks for your thoughts.. /newborn.

.

JosephMalik

Newborn,

Thinking! Somehow this was an empty post again. Both empty posts seemed to happen at the same time. Perhaps a moderator can delete them. My system seems to be broken today.

JM

39

What do you think Jesus meant...

by Newborn in

...when he said "the one that has endured to the end will be saved"?.

thanks for your thoughts.. /newborn.

.

JosephMalik

Newborn,

Thinking. Somehow this was an empty post. Perhaps a moderator can delete it. But I will answer your question.

JM

39

What do you think Jesus meant...

by Newborn in

...when he said "the one that has endured to the end will be saved"?.

thanks for your thoughts.. /newborn.

.

JosephMalik

Newborn,

Thinking. Somehow this was the second empty post that came out of nowhere. Perhaps a moderator can delete it. But I will answer your question as simply as possible..

JM

11

Independent Thinking: Is it Wrong?

by cameo-d in

jw
friends

just for a moment imagine that we had visitors from outer space and they said they were here representing god.

suppose they gave a good expalantion, saying that they are showing themselves because we are on the verge of annhiliation with wars, genocide, and toxic poisoning.. suppose their remedy for the situation was a new teaching which was basically some metaphysical-type platitudes.. and the first thing that has to go is individuality.

they would use more esoterical language.

JosephMalik

Cameo-d,

Your entire premise is wrong. Independent thinking is natural and practiced by everyone. What is meant by the term in religious circles is independent interpretation of scripture. This is not wrong since we are not independent but dependent upon them. That is why we are told to: 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. We do this as individuals using the word of truth not the publications of some organization especially one like the Watchtower that does not know the truth..

Joseph

5

"[...] politics ... means GOVERNMENT...." - ISOCF

by compound complex in

isocf: legalism - opponent of christian freedom, pp.

271, 272.. the "sword" of the superior authority in paul's day was the military, for there was no separate police force operative in his time.

the purpose of the roman army in palestine was to maintain the pax romana, and in doing so it served particularly as a force for peace and order, taking action against lawbreakers.

JosephMalik

Pahpa,

Our Lord and his teachings are what matter, not historians. What point did He make? Well as mediator he sent and angel to a Roman Army officer: Acts 10:3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. His position in the Army was not a detriment for him to receive special treatment and he opened the way for Gentiles to receive holy spirit as well for the scriptures teach: 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. This is why I do not follow historians. They will mislead you. If this did not bother God or our Lord, it should not bother us either.

Joseph

5

"[...] politics ... means GOVERNMENT...." - ISOCF

by compound complex in

isocf: legalism - opponent of christian freedom, pp.

271, 272.. the "sword" of the superior authority in paul's day was the military, for there was no separate police force operative in his time.

the purpose of the roman army in palestine was to maintain the pax romana, and in doing so it served particularly as a force for peace and order, taking action against lawbreakers.

JosephMalik

CompoundComplex,

This is correct and Christians are not Pacifists as many believe and teach. They know that such governments are serving the interests of Christ in this world until He returns. After all our Lord taught us: Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. It was the abuse of such weapons that was the problem not the need for them when used properly to accomplish what is written. To the extent that such governments are not doing what is expected of them, other governments are authorized to confrunt them and correct the problem. This is why such governments, and their influence be it near or far belong to Christ their head. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Without them there would be no faith or hope and Paul could appeal to them for assistance when endagered by his own brothers.

Joseph

82

HERE'S A BOMBSHELL ABOUT THE 144,000 DOCTRINE......

by Mary in

just when you think you've heard it all............in my research for my project, i was doing some digging around on the subject of the 144,000 and came across something in the wts's literature that absolutely stunned me and, being the generous soul that i am , wanted to pass it on to you to get your thoughts on this.. .

we all know that the society teaches that the 144,000 mentioned in revelation is speaking of "spiritual israel" and not 'fleshly israel' or even other christians in general right?

there are countless quotes throughout the literature that we are all familiar with that specifically state this, but to drive home a point, here are a few:.

JosephMalik

Are you saying that the 12 apostles will judge the 12 tribes of the Jews? Does that 'recreation' take place on the earth? Is it the accepted catholic doctrine?

Satanus,

On the earth? Yes! Accepted catholic doctrine? I do not think so, at not least not what I was taught in Catholic school. They had people going to heaven when I was there as well.

Joseph

82

HERE'S A BOMBSHELL ABOUT THE 144,000 DOCTRINE......

by Mary in

just when you think you've heard it all............in my research for my project, i was doing some digging around on the subject of the 144,000 and came across something in the wts's literature that absolutely stunned me and, being the generous soul that i am , wanted to pass it on to you to get your thoughts on this.. .

we all know that the society teaches that the 144,000 mentioned in revelation is speaking of "spiritual israel" and not 'fleshly israel' or even other christians in general right?

there are countless quotes throughout the literature that we are all familiar with that specifically state this, but to drive home a point, here are a few:.

JosephMalik

Can you believe this? How the hell can the "twelve tribes of Israel" represent "the world" when they have clearly stated that it represents "spiritual Israel"?? You can't have a group with the identical name representing two different classes at the same time. If "the twelve tribes of Israel" represents "the world", then how can "the twelve tribes of Israel" represent those that are judging them???

Mary,

You are discussing what will happen in the re-creation and that takes place in the future. Of course the WT’s use of such terms does not mean anything. They really do not know what they are talking about and are simply winging it in this mysterious way to avoid explaining this time, this re-creation. It is after all the Kingdom message that we are to preach and they do not know it. Their explanations are confusing as you show and wrong scripturally. At that time we will be in what we call the Kingdom, or Paradise for some depending upon our status like the one the thief had that was executed with our Lord. Who then will be there? Resurrected mankind dating all the way back in time to the beginning; Jews, the Nations, anyone selected by Christ to be there for any reason like this thief. The statement can therefor be taken several ways. Since the 12 tribes will be there the statement of judging the 12 tribes can be taken literally. But since the Nations will also be there and since they now have the same Jewish Father as their savior, it could be said that they were also spliced into this nation by this new life, this rebirth. So it can be taken that way as well. But you do show how confused they are with their big shots in heaven while Christ returns here to this earth which is pretty much what most Churches also teach as well. What a mess. Time for everyone to re-dress everything for themselves.

Joseph