.
how do you feel?do you like to be called apostate ?.
apostate just means: someone who renounces a former belief or principle.. to people who have never been witnesses it may not symbolise much.but to witnesses the word means a lot.in many of their minds it is synonymous with evil and perverted.. since it jw's who will likely call us apostate not others the term almost always has a bad or negative useage.. but it does identify us as people who have completely rejected the religion.. so is it good for us to use it or not?
Gumby,
No, that is not true. Apostasy must be understood in context. The Jews that still believed in the Law were apostate according to Paul and not as you suggest.
Joseph
Edited by - JosephMalik on 14 June 2002 14:11:28
Edited by - JosephMalik on 14 June 2002 14:12:24
when i was a 'dub, i beleived that faith was the hebrews 11 thing, but since i have put aside that way of thinking and no longer believe god or believe the bible to be anything more than a collection of human history and philosophy, i tend to think in terms of faith being no more than the dictionary definition: .
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions.
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to god (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust.
When I was a 'dub, I beleived that faith was the Hebrews 11 thing, but since I have put aside that way of thinking and no longer believe God or believe the Bible to be anything more than a collection of human history and philosophy, I tend to think in terms of faith being no more than the dictionary definition:
Mackin,
Well then you should be able to see from the dictionary definition that this term faith can be used many ways. You choose to reject God and the Bible, which is only one use of this term but that
is still sad.
The basis for my faith is mostly the Bible and the truth that is concealed in it. With so many denominations and sects in the world one would expect some of them to have the truth but this is not so. Most have no idea whatsoever as to what the scriptures teach and their doctrines for the most part are not in harmony with the text. It is almost as if we are all not reading the same book? The WT is guilty of thousands of false teachings and rules, many of them dangerous and deadly to their followers. Much of their doctrine is based upon fear and intimidation just like hell fire is to others. But the truth of scripture is liberating with a life giving freedom few enjoy. Perhaps there is still time for you to re-evaluate your views and grasp such truth hidden now in these documents for centuries.
Joseph
Edited by - JosephMalik on 14 June 2002 10:9:39
.
how do you feel?do you like to be called apostate ?.
apostate just means: someone who renounces a former belief or principle.. to people who have never been witnesses it may not symbolise much.but to witnesses the word means a lot.in many of their minds it is synonymous with evil and perverted.. since it jw's who will likely call us apostate not others the term almost always has a bad or negative useage.. but it does identify us as people who have completely rejected the religion.. so is it good for us to use it or not?
How do you feel? Do you like to be called apostate ?
Sleepy,
No, it is not an appropriate term for us but we are mature enough to deal with such accusations. The ex-JW's for the most part are the true faithful and dependent upon our Lord for salvation while the witnesses are the faithless and dependent upon their association with the Watchtower for their salvation.
There is only one Christian faith in the world. It is broken up into many denominations but still they all together represent this one faith. The fact that the WT and many others are evil does not alter this fact. Our Lord will sort them out and judge each one as individuals when He returns. Some will be found evil, and counted as outsiders and drunkards with the rest of the world. Some will be found faithful especially the ones that get out as the ex-witnessed have in accord with:
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
All of us that have been so falsely accused must bear up and continue the dedication we made so honestly and humbly so many years ago and preach the word. Expose the error and the evil men behind it. In this way we can fulfill this dedication to the glory of the one that called us in the first place.
Joseph
why do almost 70% of the members who post here, put down the witness?
i'm not a witness and i dont wanna be one, but whatever the witness did to y'all, just put whatever in the pass, and look towards god's promises, and also look forward to christ promises, and remember that, aint nobody perfect, because we all is imperfect & full of sin...... .
thanks!
Prehaps we should all keep silent and just let them get on with it?
U2k,
Keeping silent is not an option. The responsibility of being a disciple is: 1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
And along with such preaching we must expose error like this: Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
The Watchtower stands accursed on this board in accordance with this and other sacred texts, thanks to the preaching being done here. So silence is not an optionU2k.
Joseph
with all the hurt and pain from so many witness's being insulted by the socitys strange veiws on so many issues that it claims is from gods own heart, it leads me at times to ask: "jehovah just where are you and do you really see anything at all going on with in an oranization that claims to be your own".
waiting for an ansure.. pepper
The reason God doesn't do anything is quite simply because there is no God.
Mackin,
You do not get it do you? With very few exceptions through history, there has been little or no intervention or interaction in human affairs. Most of the time things were just as they are now.
And all religions are screwed up today. But this if not the fault of God or scripture. The Watchtower is one of the worst of them as it is full of false teachings and rules but the blame is with the Watchtower and not with God. Yes, God, the one in which you do not believe has kept the real truth contained in such texts hidden in plain sight. And now the truth of such hidden truth is being revealed. Thus we can deterimine with accuracy which organizations or individuals have been lying all along.
One such truth is the fact that Jesus was imprisoned for 6 days during Passover and executed just before the 7th day of Passover or on the day of preparation for it. This truth has been revealed on this site for over a year now and known by some for nearly 20 years, but the significance of this finding does not seem to sink in. Ordinary people are finding truth where organizations are not. The faith is composed of individuals and dependent upon them. Such individuals are being blessed with knowledge, not organizations or a phony class of annointed and evil men. This is but one example of many truths that are now common knowledge to many here but not known to or admitted by the Watchtower.
The Watchtower cannot save you in any way. Memebership to such systems are of no value. They cannot forgive your sins, cure your illness, or raise you from death. Slaveing for them is harmful and obying them dangerouse in fact. Their policies and medical practice do kill and seriously harm their followers. The result of such actions is always death not life. If you want to be true to your dedication and gain the eternal life promised in the sacred text then follow Jesus not such men. You will be on your own, but much better off for it.
Joseph
i recall reading a couple years back, some court documents posted on an ex-jw site that stated that charles taze russell was accused by his wife (at their divorce hearing) of sexually abusing a girl that they had taken in to their home.
does anyone have any information on this?
or know where i can find this again?
Laurie Fitzwater
I understand that that child was 21 or 23 years old at the time of the so called fondling. This was not some teen age girl.
Joseph
i just wanted to say that perhaps now is a good time for the silentlambs group to add a fight against the society's blood policy to their agenda.
i think the society's latest actions in response to their pressure could be considered a reasonable victory and unless the attack is broadened to include child abuse and blood, i think their 15 minutes could be up.. i see the molestation issue and the respect gained in media circles for the silentlambs group providing a "limited time" opportunity to use this issue as a springboard to launch another offensive.. the society's recent actions regarding child molestation make the issue increasingly difficult to convince the public and active jws of the need for future major changes to their policy.
valuable time spent on the issue of molestation and trying to force the society to bend on the last few remaining "demands" while probably hundreds of witnesses die each year due to lack of blood might be better focused in another direction.. i think the common understanding that witnesses should be able to personally decide their healthcare without influence and threat of sanctions or reprisals from the congregation will be much easier to form a more united effort against the society.
HCM said: I think getting people out of the cult would be a better alternative than trying to change it. Slow changes would just keep the hopes of any on the edge of leaving, involved longer or indefinitely.
This of course is the best thing that can be done for those involved in Watchtowerdom. Reform will never work and the scriptures do say:
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
But those engaged in a ministry to reform or otherwise assist such endagered ones are doing their best under difficult circumstances and this choice is theirs alone to make. Our Lord will determine the worthyness of their cause not us. I thought that reform was possible in the beginning also. Each one then must determine the proper course for themselves.
Joseph
i have heard this from jws many times.
they say that when the whole congregation is corrupt it is clearly noticable that jehovah's spirit is not with them.
eventually if the whole congregation is corrupt the gb dissolves the whole congregation.. jws say this as if it were from personal experience.
There was Bonham Texas in the early 80's. We met the ones that did it at a conference in Gadsden Ala, hosted by Peter Gregerson who owns a chain of Grocery stores there.
Joseph
...do you want an end to the entire organization of jehovah's witnesses?.
i'm guessing there is so much money involved, we couldn't hope to see an end to them, but that's what needs to happen imho.
after all, jim and tammy faye bakker had lots of money associated with their church, and a theme park complete with hotels to boot and they're all gone.
Personally, I feel that attempting to reform the JW cult into a respectable religion would be as large an impossibility as making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Francois,
I agree. It is not simply a matter of policy. Very little of what Jehovah's Witnesses teach is truth. Hundreds if not thousands of details regarding their doctrines must be radically changed. Their prohibition on taking the bread and wine at the Memorial is in direct conflict of our Lord's command. Their blood policies are evil and unscriptural. They are directly responsible for untold numbers of dead followers and destroyed lives and families. It is not possible to redeem or reclaim such an organization from the blood guilt that the Scriptures place upon them.
The best approach therefore is to help as many as possible to leave them. In this way they can fulfill their dedication to the Christ to which they think they have dedicated their lives in the first place.
Joseph
now, what will follow is a post from a 15 yo kid on silentlambs.
you know, i rememeber feeling much like him.
i think witties are getting the impression that we think they they as people are pedos......they don't realize the corruption that we're fighting is their leadership, and their outdated prejudices.. "not much more can be said that hasn't been said already...i'm just wondering, why are you, (or anyone else who is) so hateful toward jehovah's witnesses...i beleive that you are entitled to your own oppinion, and you are free to think what you want to think.
I'm just wondering, why are you, (or anyone else who is) so hateful toward Jehovah's Witnesses...I believe that you are entitled to your own opinion, and you are free to think what you want to think. But please...At least get your facts strait before you condemn JW's...
Dave,
Why do you think that many have such a strong opinion of JW’s? Is it just this one problem with pedophiles that makes them feel this way? Could it be that there are many different reasons involved other than this one issue?
People are dying because of the Watchtowers false doctrines such as the one on blood.
People like yourself are going door to door offering literature that is NOT the truth, looking for victims to enslave not disciples to train in the ways of Jesus.
People are being punished for doing the right thing by exposing such wrongs in the Watchtower organization.
Families are being torn apart because of the Watchtowers evil policies, and Laws, designed to protect themselves and the power they hold over you.
And it is not just the leaders that are guilty of such sins. It is also the rank and file that obey them.
You may think your nice, a good person in fact, but if you shun others, if you teach the lies that the Watchtower teaches you, if you do nothing to correct the wrongs that you see, then you are just as guilty as they are. True Disciples of Jesus Christ would not do this. They would expose such sins and break free just as our Lord said to the Jews still enslaved by the Law in their day:
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Your governing body consists of a bunch of liars and evil men. Your literature is a disgrace to the faith. Nearly everything you teach others is nothing but false doctrines, not truth. Really then, what kind or who’s disciples are you really?
What you are calling hateful people are nothing more than poor souls trying to help you see such truth by getting your attention so that they can explain these things to you.
Joseph
