Narkissos,
I expected this argument about the fall of Jerusalem and the prophecies on this generation to come up. Jesus did prophecy about the fall of literal Jerusalem during His ministry in other texts but there is no reason to take His symbolic use of that city along with the sign of his impending return as the same event.
To prevent this Matthew and Mark worded this prophecy differently by interpreting His words for us instead of quoting them as Luke did. They used Daniels prophecies to move them historically far out in time. This should have prevented such application to 70CE or the merging of other similar texts yet we still see this being done today. To get around the obvious discrepancies that result we see the WT and others using multiple or partial fulfillments to harmonize such errors.
Joseph
JosephMalik
JoinedPosts by JosephMalik
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42
How do you explain bible prophecies?
by ithinkisee inyou know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?
conspiracy by the early church?
conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.
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JosephMalik
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42
How do you explain bible prophecies?
by ithinkisee inyou know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?
conspiracy by the early church?
conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.
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JosephMalik
Mulan,
Why do so many miss this point? We can use them for examples but not future fulfillments. They may help us to understand how things will work out or guide us in some way but that's all we can do with them.
Joseph
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38
Can true Christianity have some false prophets and still be true Christians
by booker-t ini know this sounds like a "totally" stupid question and i don't mean to offend religious people but i was talking to two jw's elders the other day at my apartment.
they came by even though they know i am disassocated and don't want to go back to the wt.
they think they can convince me that they are the truth and i would go back.
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JosephMalik
Can true Christianity have some false prophets and still be true Christians? No! The question implies that membership in a group such as this sanctifies the rest somehow even though some among them are false prophets. The apostles themselves were in this very situation some apostles even teaching falsely and Paul was the foremost in the battle to put a stop to such outrages in the faith. Our Lord warned that He would expel such evil slaves when He returned. And John identified some as antichrist because of such teaching. They may be Christians by their declaration but would not be true Christians or faithful slaves in the sight of our Lord and would not be accepted into His administration. They will be cast out and their salvation would then become dependent as to what they were as human beings and how they treated others. We are individually responsible for what we do or teach and with whom we may fellowship and will be judged individually as stated in chapter Matt 25 and: Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Joseph
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11
Since when does a woman have the right to preside...?
by Lady Lee insince when does a woman have the right to preside over the congregation?
we all know that the wts relegates women to a secondary place within the congregation.
women would never be allowed to be on the gb even if they were anointed.
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JosephMalik
I think women elders would be cooooool.
Minimus,
Yes but no elders at all would be even coooooler. After all no one with the authority of one of the 12 Apostles exists anymore to appoint one. Can any of the big shots that think they are so great raise someone from the dead as they could? Can they heal someone as they could. No! All we have now is a bunch of phonies' running around thinking they are really important telling you what to believe and teach.
Go get them Lady Lee. You are as much a disciple as any man and have the same authority as anyone else.
Joseph
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JosephMalik
Honesty, Yes it is no secret. We die and return to the lifeless elements from which we were taken. Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Ps 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. So why all the confusion? Why do some believe we go to heaven or someplace really bad? Because of texts like this: Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. And many confuse allegories in scripture with literal events. The problem is identifying what this spirit is. The word is wind and cannot be defined easily as some attempt. Some in fact the majority it seems think that it is our immortal soul but this is a false doctrine. Immortality is something promised to us in a future Kingdom and not something we now possess. The thing that makes us what we are is our experiences, our memories, our DNA and whatever else is essential to resurrecting us again as immortal human beings into this Kingdom. This record of us this spirit returns unto God and is kept so to speak as an entry in a book of life. It is simply a matter of following the story and staying in context with God’s plan for this human race during His day of rest. That plan is in the development of a seed through the woman Eve that will be restored to life once again. Joseph
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Appropriateness of Women's Headcovering
by TheListener in1 corinthians 11:3-16 doesn't make any sense to me.
several other places paul says there are no male, female, slaves, jews, greeks, etc but we are all one with christ.
so why do some of us, who are all one, have to cover our heads or not even speak publicly at the meetings?
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JosephMalik
Leolaia, Sometimes this helps and sometimes not. That women can win their husbands over by such quietness is another matter. The apostles were dealing with a mindset so ingrained by the Law and tradition that reason did not always work. There is more than one way to preach the good news. Our conduct especially the conduct of women in such situations enters into our ministries as well. Pay attention to what is being taught and why. This is why staying with the text and the overall context and purpose for it makes the difference most of the time. Joseph
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Appropriateness of Women's Headcovering
by TheListener in1 corinthians 11:3-16 doesn't make any sense to me.
several other places paul says there are no male, female, slaves, jews, greeks, etc but we are all one with christ.
so why do some of us, who are all one, have to cover our heads or not even speak publicly at the meetings?
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JosephMalik
I wouldn't try to convince you of anything. I hope you can bear with some conversation going on after you have spoken.
Narkissos,
Sure you would and you did try. Is there a rule somewhere I missed that I cannot jump into such comments? I have discovered many things as a result of such intense discussions and corrected my work in times past. It is amazing how little things that seem of no consequence make the difference on major doctrinal issues. And it is amazing how much error along with the good that we find everywhere in literature and commentaries. So sounding them out really helps and if I should get stung sometimes, well I get over it and move on. The idea is to not to spew out the same errors again hoping to find someone else that will listen. Each one of us is responsible for what we teach others and we will be judged accordingly.
Joseph
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50
Appropriateness of Women's Headcovering
by TheListener in1 corinthians 11:3-16 doesn't make any sense to me.
several other places paul says there are no male, female, slaves, jews, greeks, etc but we are all one with christ.
so why do some of us, who are all one, have to cover our heads or not even speak publicly at the meetings?
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JosephMalik
Old Soul,
Yes, just look at all the problems Paul had to deal with. It was not just about the Law. There were the Legal rules ones, pertaining to government and their requirements which was another area he commented on. The ground rules he established was that all such government were put in place by God, (Romans 13) and literally created by Christ (Col 1:16) for the purpose of maintaining order here on earth until the Kingdom replaces them. We have an obligation to obey them as well. So you pointed out how he dealt with such issues as slavery. Are we to think that our obedience to such Governments is equated to serving God? In many things such as this yes. Where do we draw the line? Well that I cannot answer for everyone. Christ knows our circumstances and the scriptures guide us but how we treat others has a lot to do with it.
Joseph
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50
Appropriateness of Women's Headcovering
by TheListener in1 corinthians 11:3-16 doesn't make any sense to me.
several other places paul says there are no male, female, slaves, jews, greeks, etc but we are all one with christ.
so why do some of us, who are all one, have to cover our heads or not even speak publicly at the meetings?
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JosephMalik
A few Pauline examples of the rhetorical connection represented by è = or.
Narkissos,
Back to this again? It changes nothing does it? Pauls message comes through regardless. He was protecting women from such outrages in all his territory. We all should know that words like, God, Lord, worship, heaven, world, all, spirit, and many more are contextually driven and their meanings can change radically with use. So it is with this particle. Am I to be overwhelmed with the way it is used elsewhere? No! And the KJV translators were not dummies were they? They worked with what they had available to them and did a pretty good job despite their biased views. Other translations teach the very same thing do they not? Such Truth can still be gleaned from them. For example: 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God". Sounds good and is still taught today but this is not truth. This is a Corinthian doctrine. Paul corrects such thinking with: 12 "For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God". This is the real truth instead. Equality for man and women with God over all things. The churches that teach Corinthian lies like the WT and most major denominations have something to answer for as Paul brought out. Let the readers be aware of this and decide for themselves. Grammar and how the particle was used elsewhere is not going to do it.
Joseph
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50
Appropriateness of Women's Headcovering
by TheListener in1 corinthians 11:3-16 doesn't make any sense to me.
several other places paul says there are no male, female, slaves, jews, greeks, etc but we are all one with christ.
so why do some of us, who are all one, have to cover our heads or not even speak publicly at the meetings?
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JosephMalik
Leolaia,
I know but does it change anything? Theories abound on this verse and I can quote them also but what for? Paul is giving the Corinthians a rebuke is he not? And the AV with all its faults was not translated by dummies was it? What? is just fine here at least such dummies thought so. This is after all a translation and the message is not altered by this is it? Why is everyone so interested in going somewhere else with this? Do women need a headcovering? No! Can they speak in the congregation or speak in tongues for that matter without being humiliated by men present? Yes! Must we still keep the law? No! That is what Paul is teaching here. That is what Paul taught in nearly all his letters. This is the same battle Paul fought in Jerusalem with James and Peter, and 14 years later with James again. That is what this thread is all about. Many churches have this the wrong way. They are clearly WRONG! They are not as inspired or enlightened as they pretend to be. They are not as knowledgeable as they want you to think. This is what I see in their literature on this subject and this is the battle that must be fought today just as Paul did in his day.
Joseph