I know this sounds like a "totally" stupid question and I don't mean to offend Religious people but I was talking to two JW's elders the other day at my apartment. They came by even though they know I am disassocated and don't want to go back to the WT. They think they can convince me that they are the truth and I would go back. The main thing that I have a problem with are the many "false prophecies" JW's have given over the years. The elders response have been that even Jesus' disciples and the apostles had many "wrong" expectations and teachings but the bible does not classify them with the false prophets. Examples that they generally bring up are when Nathan the prophet told King David to build the temple for worship but Jehovah did not want David to build the temple JW's argue that Nathan the prophet gave "false" information to a servant of God but yet the bible shows that Jehovah still considered Nathan a prophet and a servant even though Nathan was "wrong" and could have been considered a "false prophet" by the other pre-christian believers. The elder kept asking me Was a prophet wrong? And my answer was "yes" then the elder comparing JW's to Nathan said "you see if Jehovah could still use Nathan after a "prophetic" error than he can still use JW's after their prophetic errors such as 1925, 1975 etc; The next example the elder brought up was Jonah and the nivites. Jonah said "40 days" that they had left and nothing happened after the 40 days so Jonah gave some information that was "wrong" but Jehovah continued to use Jonah the same way he continues to use JW's today. The elders main point is that Jehovah does not expect his servants to be 100% right because he knows his people are human and subject to human error but he looks at the heart and does not judge the same way human beings judge and expect a 100% out of humans. Another example the elder brought up was the case with Peter telling the other apostles and chirstians that someone was to die right then and there because he misunderstood Jesus' words. Peter was wrong not Jesus but Jesus continued to use Peter even though Peter started a falsehood that continued after Peter and Jesus was dead and in the grave. This falsehood continued even when John wrote the 1st and 2nd and 3rd books of St. John. But we still consider Peter one of the Saints and put trust in his bible books. The elder hammered away at the fact that nobody dead right then and there like Peter had thought and if BAC(born-again christians) today want to condemn JW's as false prophets then they would have to condemn Peter, Nathan, Jonah as false prophets. This elder is one of the sharpest elders I have ever met. He says that born-again christians run from him when they see him coming because they can never answer his questions. He told me that he has gotten several top-notch born-agains to admit Peter, Jonah and Nathan the prophet would be considered "false prophets" if we read Deut 18:20-22. So the elder's point is that Born-agains have "double standards" when it comes to Christians and JW's. It is alright for Christians to do wrong things but JW's have to be 100% are they are false prophets.Another example the elder brought up is that St. Paul thought the kingdom of God was going to happen in his life time according to reading all of Thessolonians but here we are 2000 yrs later and what Paul thought surely did not come to pass and Paul was a prophet of Jehovah. So the elder ask was Paul a false prophet? This point really causes born-agains to crumble because they never can answer it the elder was telling me. So posters out there Can true Christians have false prophets and still be true Christians?
Can true Christianity have some false prophets and still be true Christians
by booker-t 38 Replies latest jw friends
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OldSoul
In the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, 100% of the prophecies spoken in the name of Jehovah have been thoroughly revised either prior to or after the original prophecy failed to occur. Most of the revisions have occurred after the fact. Not one single prophecy has been fulfilled as orginally prophesied.
Jesus said to "be on the watch for the false prophets" who would come appearing to be sheep but were actually "ravenous wolves." In this context he said, "By their fruits you will recognize them." Well, what identifying fruit does a false prophet bear? Deuteronomy 18:21, 22 cannot be stated more plainly. They speak in Jehovah's name a word that does not occur.
It would be one thing if they called C.T.Russell, J.F.Rutherford, and F.W.Franz false prophets, but they do not. They hold them up as examples of honorable men doing the best they could to discern the meaning of Scripture.
In closing, while I might allow for some things to have been "overeager anticipation," I would still have to see a recognition that it was false prophecy however much it was expected to come true. Calling it something else or denying what it was removes all basis for confidence in the new batch of expectations.
Respectfully,
OldSoul -
OldSoul
IMO, using Jonah as an example of a false prophet is a little off base. The Bible shows examples of God changing his judgments based on people's reactions prior to the timing of that account. If the Ninevites had not repented they would have been destroyed. Their reaction softened the judgment, but later when they returned to the same practices the judgment that had already been passed still stood as valid.
God responds to circumstances, that doesn't invalidate the prophecy. It is called mercy and consideration.
Again, Jonah wrote that God told him to proclaim that message and was angry that the message did not get fulfilled. It did not get fulfilled because the people repented.
Are we to understand that the world repented between 1878 and 1914 and that's why Armageddon was delayed? Then they repented again in 1925 so the ancient worthies wouldn't come back? And due to the repentance of the wicked we couldn't throw away our crutches and spectacles in the years shortly following 1925 and leading up to Armageddon? And because of the world's sincere repentance the date for the invisible enthronement moved from 1878 to 1914? And then the end of 6,000 years of man's existence doesn't mean Armageddon coming speedily because of repentance of the world. And then the meaning of a "generation" changed into something completely different in 1995 because people repented of their errors?
It just doesn't make sense. At all.
Respectfully,
OldSoul -
RevFrank
Deuteronony 18:20 tells us that if there is a false prophet he will die....and in Deut. 18:21-22 says that if the prophet speaks on God's behalf and it never happens, he or she is a false prophet....
So in other words false prophets were killed or you run from her or him. If a false prophet is found get rid of him or her....There should not be any false prophets among you.
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mrsjones5
I think the one cancels out the other, so no I don't think the watchtower represents true christianity.
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tetrapod.sapien
if xians can have false prophets and still be "true", then that means that any religion can have false prophets and still be as true as xianity. and if that's the case, then bother no longer with any religions folks, as i have your universal enternal truth right here on this bob dylan album.
"What is truth?" - Pilate
TS
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OldSoul
In the case of Nathan, initially Nathan made an observation in the capacity of a human. He was not speaking as a prophet. In the very next verse he begins speaking in his role as prophet and eventually makes very clear that David will not build the house. (2 Samuel 7:1-17) Anyone who compares that to a teaching of false prophecy that spans more than 100 years—namely, that the generation that saw Christ enthroned in heaven would not die before Armageddon— is grasping for straws.
Respectfully,
OldSoul -
Joel Wideman
Scripturally speaking, no. There are no two ways about this - someone who prophecies in the name of God and their prophecies prove to be false, demonstrably does not speak for God. I find it curious that this Elder would use the arguments of - or at least ones simular to - Shabir Ally, a Muslim whose anti-Christian arguments are rebutted here. The Elder is not asking you to accept JWs as Christians, he's asking you to reject Christianity.
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Narkissos
What is amazing to me is that they can say that and in the same breath claim that other Christians are not Christians because of so-called doctrinal errors. Either errors don't matter or they matter for everybody I guess.
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Qcmbr
Does a prophet have to prophecy to be a prophet?
What is a prophet?
1 IF there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
8 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Presumably it is one who speaks for God - not simply one who talks of future events.
What is a Seer?
9 (Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)