Jourles

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Posts by Jourles

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  12

  When the rules don't suit you, change 'em

  by Jourles in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  anointed cutoff --- 1935.. |.

  you cannot become a gb member without being one of the anointed.. |.

  1995 comes and this generation now means the great crowd living during our time is part of it, no time cap.. |.

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  Jourles

  I still strongly feel 2014 will be a big phsycological barrier for many r&f

  Oh yeah, I'm out and it will hit me too. 1914 isn't going away. That 100 year mark will be talked about I'm sure. For those who were in prior to 1995, I'm sure this date will land a harder hit to the gut than those who came later. But then again, the new change on the generation will also help disolve this timeframe seeing that it has nothing to do with the r&f anymore. That could be another reason for this change - to help reinforce in the r&f's minds that it never had anything to do with them in the first place. If they believe that line of bs, then the blunt force of that 100 year mark will not mean as much.
• 
  12

  When the rules don't suit you, change 'em

  by Jourles in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  anointed cutoff --- 1935.. |.

  you cannot become a gb member without being one of the anointed.. |.

  1995 comes and this generation now means the great crowd living during our time is part of it, no time cap.. |.

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  Jourles

  But then the majority of the R&F never understood the post 1995 doctrine.

  Exactly. Which is why yet another change won't be all that much different than the first. If a r&f member questions an elder as to why members of the gb are getting younger and younger, the elder can point back to this new change and explain that the anointed will be around to see armageddon, which in turn means that there must still be anointed left on earth thereby eliminating anything to do with 1935. If the r&f find it hard to wrap their heads around this new doctrine, they will be given the usual "wait on Jehovah" or "trust Jehovah's representatives" line. It has worked for the past 100 years, why not now?

  As far as the 144k goes, there are two paths they can follow here. Symbolic or literal. Personally, if I were still a jw, I would find it nauseating to learn that the 144k was symbolic after being told my entire life(and which is also the basic foundation of the WTS) it was literal. I'm not sure they will change this one. If anything, the new generation interpretation simply enforces the symbolic view. If the 144k teaching became symbolic, then why would they need to change the generation thinking?? If it were symbolic, there would be no cap on who or how many could be of the anointed. This new generation idea is merely the foundation for supporting a continued literal 144k. They can easily say that there are a scattered few who will continue to live until the end - and that those few are eligible to become gb members(the real reason behind the change, imo). They'll refer primarily to the anointed ones, but in reality, they will use this reasoning as an excuse to keep a grip on power. Afterall, only the anointed get special messages from god. Combine all of this will bleeding coffers, you'll begin to see they are trying to hold on to their power as long as the money is there. A few decades at the most is what I'm guessing.
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  33

  Carl (larc) - A Tribute

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as many of you know, larc died.

  due to my hiatus, i didn't find out until several months after he did.

  i was able to get to know him in the few years before he passed.

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  Jourles

  Yep, he was one of the very first exjw's that I ever met. He didn't scare me one bit!
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  12

  When the rules don't suit you, change 'em

  by Jourles in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  anointed cutoff --- 1935.. |.

  you cannot become a gb member without being one of the anointed.. |.

  1995 comes and this generation now means the great crowd living during our time is part of it, no time cap.. |.

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  Jourles

  Anointed cutoff --- 1935.

  |

  You cannot become a GB member without being one of the anointed.

  |

  "This generation will by no means pass away..." --- "this generation" means the great crowd who planned on seeing armageddon before Y2K.

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  1995 comes and this generation now means the great crowd living during our time is part of it, no time cap.

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  GB is getting old and dying off. To maintain control over the org, new GB members must be added.

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  New GB member(s) born post-1935. Missed anointed calling. But have no fear, they are "replacements" for the anointed ones who became unfaithful.

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  Official count of those who partake has consistently hovered at ~8k people for the last 10-20 years.

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  "This generation" will now mean those of the anointed.

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  This change allows the GB to maintain control without the awkwardness of explaining why so many elderly anointed ones become unfaithful. (not that they were going to explain it in the first place)

  In my view, this new generation change is simply for the GB's benefit. For the r&f, this doctrinal change means nothing. It serves no purpose, has no benefit, or gives the r&f any hope of seeing armageddon come any quicker than before. Prior to this, the carrot on the stick was using the original idea of the generation to keep the r&f on their toes looking forward to paradise coming "soon." But once 1995 came and went, morale took a turn for the worst. The GB was caught in a catch-22 on the 1995 change. On one hand, they had to alter it because of their interpretation of a generation consisting of roughly 80 years. 1914 to 1995 was 81 years long - roughly the span of their idea of a "generation." But on the other hand, they risked losing some members and alienating others with the change. Which was more important from their perspective? They had to maintain that they were still God's special channel dispensing the proper food at the right time. To let the old understanding of the generation continue on, they risked an even greater danger - mass questioning and confusion. By nipping it sooner rather than later, they kept hold of their control over the r&f.

  Now the question on every r&f's mind is, who are these new guys that are becoming GB members and why are they so young? Again, placing a date on a doctrine is a tricky matter, especially when it turns out you're on the wrong end of it. The WTS set 1935 up for itself. 72 years later, I'm sure they would be hard pressed to find a competent brother of that age or older to offer any cohesive ideas and actually bring them to the table. So what can they do to get around this issue and to bring in some young blood without being questioned over it? Let's change the doctrine again! If the generation now points towards the anointed ones, and that generation will see armageddon come, the GB has just now solved their problem in regards to its future leadership. 1935 will go away. It must go away - it carries no relevance to this new thinking.

  The GB stays in control. Fairly simple. The r&f can talk about it all they want and what it means for them, but in the end it is just another talking point in the WT and future book study publications. It is not a significant change whatsoever for the r&f - no matter how they disect it or read into it.

  I gotta hand it to the GB. I knew they would eventually have to get rid of 1935 and I always thought that the "replacement" idea was kind of weak, but changing the idea of the generation, yet again, was a good business move. It keeps the men at the top in power indefinitely. I mean really, how many elderly anointed ones do you know that fall away due to unfaithfulness? I never knew one or even heard of one.
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  22

  JWD Prophets! You called it, what next?

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you guys are amazing.

  for some time posters here have been saying that big changes were afoot and that the "members only" wt would be used to announce this new light.

  i admit i was apathetic and thought, ok, maybe.

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  Jourles

  I'm still waiting for a couple of these items to come true (written before Awake cutback announcement):

  To get a grasp on where the organization is heading, you first must put on your corporate thinking cap. Afterall, the WTBTS is simply a book and magazine publishing corporation.

  If I were the CEO, I would first look at the numbers provided from years past and how it compares to the most recent data released. In industrialized nations, there appears to be negative or no growth, ACROSS THE BOARD. In 3rd world countries and also others known for not having easy informative access such as the internet, positive growth is a little more apparent. Less people coming in and more going out generally means declining revenues. Since the industrialized nations most likely carry other poorer countries in terms of revenue producing income, and without seeing individual country dollar figures, this area could be considered a wash.

  So where does the money come in from? The largest portion comes in the form of direct donations from the publishers. The next major portion would probably be from donations to cover the costs of the literature. Wills, trusts, stocks, bonds, and real estate are nearer at the end I'm guessing. If my company's profits are beginning to trend downward, I need to attack that area, or areas, of declining revenue. What is causing it? I think we can all agree that "an informed witness is an ex-witness." The internet is wreaking havoc on the WTBTS. Too much sensitive and damaging information is getting into the hands of the R&F witness in the privacy of their own home. As the CEO, I know that I cannot put an outright ban on witnesses going on the web. The web is ubiquitous these days and is used extensively for business purposes. Many witnesses would rebel against a ban as more and more of them are getting computers and finding them very useful in everyday activities. If I cannot stop witnesses from getting on the web, reading about my corporation's twisted past and then leaving because I misrepresented my company, then I need to find other areas to trim back to stop or slow the lost revenue.

  Where would I look to slow this revenue drop? The actual printing itself is one major area. If it takes 1,000 hours to produce one convert(increase that time for children of witness parents being baptized), then how many magazines are handed out without asking for a donation for every convert? Our company has already pounded and pounded the idea of the donation arrangement into every service meeting - at least the publishers are supposed to ask for a donation in their demonstrations. Should we cut back on the magazine distribution timeframe? How about combine the WT and Awake into one magazine? Instead of twice a month, how about just once? This alone would cut expenditures on printed materials by almost 50-75%. And the books? Well, we already did away with hardcover and we also cut the physical size of most books to roughly 50% of the older larger ones. Can we take advantage of electronic distribution? Would some witnesses prefer to print out Adobe PDF files of the magazines? Instead of offering the WT and Awakes at the doors, why not switch to using just tracts? Save the magazines for studies and witnesses themselves. Tracts would cost less to produce and effectively carry the same message as the magazines.

  These are just a few ways to cut back on expenditures. Of course, we would need to mask these changes as being for the better good and to also show a progressive proactive stance so that the witnesses do not become disheartened as to the lack of spiritual food that they were once accustomed to getting. We can use words like: compressed, simple, cost-effective, environmentally friendly, and others that show we are trying to fit as much spiritual food as we can into one magazine without wasting the paper it is written on. If we see that donations continue to trend downwards, disfellowshippings must occur. We must always keep the fear of our God-given authority firmly entrenched into their minds. If they feel that they do not want to help towards to worldwide work, then they can leave. A non-donating witness is the same as a worldly person in our eyes. Dead money.

  Ok, so the last part may not happen, but the rest very well could.

  It's nice that the search feature is working again. Ultimately, once they streamline again and really focus on reducing areas of cost due to their printing operations, the only other area where they can make money is by selling off kh's. Consolidating congregations and/or forcing the pubs to meet in private homes is on the horizon. I found this post back from Jan '02 regarding ownership of kh's being changed to the WTS:

  OR...once the WTS gets hit with an unending stream of lawsuits, they now have the legal assets to sell-off in order to cover expenditures. The given 'reason' will be to "combine congregations" or some other excuse.

  As has been mentioned time and time again by myself and other posters - once you view the WTS as a BUSINESS, a book publishing business, only then will you be able to plainly see where they are headed. Forget new light. The tried and true jw will stick with them forever regardless of what new understanding comes out. But you have to remember, if the money isn't there to support massive printing facilities and other necessary capital expenditures, they will eventually die. Their paper isn't free. Water, electricity and gas are not free. Food is not free. The one and only single item that allows them to do what they do today is their tax-exempt status. If they were to ever lose this, they would fold up quicker than a hand towel. Going along with this "tax-exempt status" idea, if the USA, Canada and Mexico ever manage to become the "North American Union," the USA's Bill of Rights will probably go away or will be extremely reworded. "Freedom of Religion" will likely become "Freedom to practice whatever religions are approved by the government." Who knows? I see it as a distinct possibility that it could happen. Religions that are considered "mainstream" will be left untouched, but those that are viewed as cults, sects, or annoying, would not enjoy such a status. And it's hard to say whether or not any religion will be tax exempt. Anyway you look at it, the kh's are next on the chopping block. Of course, the CO's and DO's will likely be out of jobs too somewhere in the ruckus. Or at least their cars, salaries or anything else which directly ties them to HQ as employees will be done away with. These are exciting times we're living in!
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  14

  Has the WTS changed its view on carbon dating?

  by Jourles in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i remember back to my high school days when the blue evolution or creation book was all the rage.

  in it, i recall the wts using several reasons as to why we cannot trust carbon dating whatsoever.

  has there been any change in their thinking in the last 15 or so years or any new developments on this front?

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  Jourles

  I remember back to my high school days when the blue Evolution or Creation book was all the rage. In it, I recall the WTS using several reasons as to why we cannot trust carbon dating whatsoever. Has there been any change in their thinking in the last 15 or so years or any new developments on this front? The reason why I'm asking is because of the newly found Syrian wall painting that was uncovered. In the article, they mention it is roughly 11000 years old and they deduced this from carbon dating:

  "It looks like a modernist painting. Some of those who saw it have likened it to work by (Paul) Klee. Through carbon dating we established it is from around 9,000 B.C.," Coqueugniot said.

  As we all know, human civilization couldn't possibly have been around on earth back in 9000 B.C. Adam and Eve only came on the scene back in 6000 B.C. So who in the heck painted this then? Did Satan predict what was going to happen in our day and he painted it himself just to screw around with the WTS?

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071011/ts_nm/syria_painting_dc
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  29

  Is it all just a 'Cosmic Crapshoot'?

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  first my faith in the wts went away.. later my faith in religion [for purposes other than fellowship] went away.

  to date, my faith in the existence of the 'great cause' remains, but is tarnishing in some respects.

  i have no clear picture of what we really are, where we are really going, and why we exist.

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  Jourles

  I'm at the point in my life(and don't see this changing anytime soon) where I really don't care how we came to be or where we are going. Did "God" create us? Did we evolve from monkeys via a "Big Bang?" If SOLID proof existed, the entire world would have to believe one way or another. There would be no alternative choices in the matter. It's one or the other. For every "proof" that theocrats offer, the evolutionists break it apart. For every "proof" that evolutionists offer, the theocrats tear it apart.

  We're born, we live together in an eff'd up world for roughly 80 years, and then we die. Personally, and I mean personally, I would rather not waste time trying to figure out where we came from or what is waiting for us after we die. In my view, it has no bearing whatsoever in my life or the people around me. You can go on a finding God binge for years and never come to a conclusion as to who God is, where he lives, where he came from or whatever else our puny little brain can conjure up. Does it really matter in the end? What if Allah is the one and only true God? What about Jehovah? The Trinity? Just because you're raised to believe in one or the other doesn't make that particular deity the correct one. There's over a billion Muslims who truly believe that Allah is the true God. There's roughly the same(maybe even less) amount of Christians who believe that Yahweh, Jehovah, Jesus, or a combo is the true one. This fact alone raises many questions on both sides(actually, it is very multi-faceted if you look at world religion in general). What if the bible is just a book not inspired of "God?" What if the Koran is not inspired of "Allah?" How do we know one way or the other? We don't.
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  20

  So, I sent him flowers....

  by whyamihere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, my husband is a packer fan and i love my bears.

  last night he was so mad, throwing things, cursing like a sailor, basically acting like me, although, little more reserved.. i was in hiding all morning, giggling to myself, showing no emotion for the sake of our marriage...(lol .

  so, i sent him flowers, with a sympathy card saying ....."sorry sucker"....lol.

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  Jourles

  I just hate the ungodly sight of them.

  Then you'll love my new tshirt design...

  That's bird poop falling from the Cardinal in case you were wondering.
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  20

  So, I sent him flowers....

  by whyamihere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, my husband is a packer fan and i love my bears.

  last night he was so mad, throwing things, cursing like a sailor, basically acting like me, although, little more reserved.. i was in hiding all morning, giggling to myself, showing no emotion for the sake of our marriage...(lol .

  so, i sent him flowers, with a sympathy card saying ....."sorry sucker"....lol.

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  Jourles

  Well, it was nice watching the Cardinals lose and the Cubs making the playoffs!

  I just know that little dig was for my benefit, wasn't it? I knew the Cards had no chance back in April-May. Which is another reason why I didn't go to any of their games this year.

  Ahhh, but it sure is nice to say that the Cards have actually won a few WS's, including last year's. (3x for emphasis) When was the last time the cubs were able to make a winning WS tshirt or hat? Ummm, never? lol

  Don't worry Brookie, there's always next millennium.
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  85

  Who Would You Like To See As The Next President Of The USA?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  even if they aren't running, who would you like to see as the next president?

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  Jourles

  Ron Paul of course. The only reason why I recently registered as a republican.