Probably something about how close Armageddon is. No, we really mean it this time!
On this note, does anyone know why at the KH's are getting the big screen TV's installed?
Posts by Mary
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62November 8th Special Meeting
by Chris Tann inanyone have any leaks on this three hour meeting we are having early november?.
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can anyone tell me how to fly under the radar of the elders?
by purrpurr ini have all my family in the cult and was brought up in it myself.
although mentally i'm out if i leave i loose all my family and that would break my heart.
i've somehow got to fly under the radar and not be detected.
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Mary
Oh dear, why am I getting deja vu?
Your choices are basically this:
1. Do The Fade and blame it on 'depression'.
2. Move to another city
3. Leave.
4. Stay and maybe go to 1 meeting a month. The elders will only bug you for so long. If pressed, you could just say someone stumbled you.
Unfortunately, in many cases like yours, you can't have your cake and eat it too. I had another friend who went back to the evil that is the WTS because he couldn't handle life without his family. To me, all this did was re-affirm to his family how wonderful the shunning is: If we totally ignore him, he'll come back. Now he gets to live the rest of his life as a JW knowing full well that it's a crock of shit. But apparently he thinks it's worth it to have the conditional love of his family.
Sorry, but your choices are limited.
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I AGREE WITH THE JWs: THE 'SOUL' DOESN'T EXIST
by NAVYTOWN ini agree with the witnesses about almost nothing, but i do think they have the right idea when it concerns the 'soul'.
it is my belief that there is no such entity as a 'soul' that resides in a human being.
the idea originated in ancient, pre-scientific eras.
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Mary
Then they weren't dead were they
No you're right they weren't. That's why they're called Near Death Experiences. They've experiencing something incredible that apparently happens when you're near death. And no, all of these experiences cannot simply be dismissed as 'hallucinations' or 'lucky guesses'. Two of the best cases that have been studied is the Pam Reynolds Case and the 'Denture Man Case'.
I can't seem to link them, but if you're interested, here they are: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
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I AGREE WITH THE JWs: THE 'SOUL' DOESN'T EXIST
by NAVYTOWN ini agree with the witnesses about almost nothing, but i do think they have the right idea when it concerns the 'soul'.
it is my belief that there is no such entity as a 'soul' that resides in a human being.
the idea originated in ancient, pre-scientific eras.
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Mary
I toyed for a while about a life after death and I can see both sides of the argument. I read an excellent book on the subject last year called Science and the Near Death Experience: How Consciousness Survives Death. I found it to be very informative and what I liked about it, is that there was no religious agenda in it.
One things for sure: we'll all find out if there's an afterlife when our turn comes.
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Find What Your Social Status Was in the Congregation
by Mary inever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?
the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:.
1. at the top of the social order of things within the congregation is of course, the presiding overseer and his family.
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Mary
Presiding Overseers are now Coordinator of the Body of Elders
Aw geeze, really? Guess I haven't been keeping up with 'noo lite'!
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A QUESTION FOR JW'S who say, "The brothers were overly zealous" about 1975
by Terry in"what was the actual significance of that year, then?".
if jw's were overly zealous, what was the exact amount of zeal encouraged by the wts for a non-event which took up.
over 7 years of every jw's time?.
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Mary
Oh dear. I had a conversation with a JW elder on-line about this very thing a couple of years ago. I won't bore you with the entire conversation, but here's part of it on Amazon in a book about the WTS:
JW: As for the so-called 1975 fiasco, I was there and a presiding overseer/presiding pastor of a congregation and I KNOW hat was said and taught. NO statement saying 1975 would be the End, NO statement saying that an Angel said, in a vision we were told, etc. In fact note what was said to us.
At a convention held in Baltimore, Maryland, F. W. Franz gave the concluding talk. He began by saying: "Just before I got on the platform a young man came to me and said, `Say, what does this 1975 mean?'" Brother Franz then referred to the many questions that had arisen as to whether the material in the new book meant that by 1975 Armageddon would be finished, and Satan would be bound. He stated, in essence: `It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.' Notice: "But we are not saying, And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975."
That was our official position. What some may have said is beyond anyone's control, but the WTS NEVER made the claim Rhodes and others try to infer we did.
Me: Did you even bother reading what I wrote? I gave you the SPECIFIC example of what Wisconsin Sheboygan District Overseer Brother Charles Sunutko SAID to the audience of Witnesses during a PUBLIC TALK in 1967. If you somehow missed this, this is what was said:
"...Well now, as Jehovah's Witnesses, as runners, even though some of us have become a little weary, it almost seems as though Jehovah has provided meat in due season. Because he's held up before all of us, a new goal. A new year. Something to reach out for and it just seems it has given all of us so much more energy and power in this final burst of speed to the finish line. And that's the year 1975. ... Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the Watchtower. ...And don't wait 'till 1975. The door is going to be shut before then....As one brother put it, "Stay alive to Seventy-Five..."
What part of that don't you get? If the Organization never claimed anything about 1975, then where did all the Witnesses get this idea from in the first place? Huh? And please don't bother trying to say that he `must have said this on his own', because as a District Overseer, he would have the outline of his talk that came straight out of Brooklyn Bethel. It.was.said and for you to SIT there and type a bold-faced LIE trying to claim that the Organization never stated that 1975 would be the end just demonstrates the depth of your delusions and the extent you will go to in order to cover up their false
predictions.No Witness is allowed to make independent predictions, especially by way of a public talk. Anyone who said something so outrageous as the District Overseer said above without the full approval of the Bethel, would have been in major trouble for daring to go beyond what the Governing Body approved of and you and I both know it. He probably would have been disfellowshipped for `apostasy' for telling thousands of Witnesses that Armageddon was coming in 1975 if the Governing Body didn't whole-heartedly approve of him saying that.
I have asked you repeatedly the same question which you have so far refused to answer: How can someone have God's Holy Spirit on them, call themselves 'prophets' (even in the basic sense as you are trying to claim), tell people that The End is right around the corner for the past 130 years, print countless books and magazine that in fact, DO try to predict the future, but claim you don't call yourselves "prophets? '
JW: if as you seem to think he is repeating what he was told to say by the GB (Governing Body of JW's) then it contradicted the clear quote I gave from the V.P. (GB member) Of the WTS, so that doesn't fit either. If it had been a manuscript he and every D.O. would have said exactly the same
thing and they didn't. It wasn't said at the District Convention I attended that year, nor at the one my wife, then much younger and not married to me, attended. It was an isolated instance, if true, he said what he wanted not what he was told to say. Outlines gave general direction and the speaker filled in with his thoughts. That has changed now and virtually every talk is a manuscript, because some went too far with their own thoughts.How would you know any of this? Your name indicates a woman and you would not have been a servant where such matters were discussed. You would not have been a speaker, as I was, where a misstep will get you counseled about it but NOT disfellowshipped. The only way he would be disfellowshipped would have been if he insisted he was right and the WTS wrong and he was going to teach that. Then after repeated counsel he would have been removed as a servant/elder/pastor.
Me: what you have is called 'selective amnesia' where you choose to pointedly ignore written documentation from that time because it's inconvenient and embarassing for you. Every Witness in the late 1960s and early 1970s knows that there was a huge build-up to 1975 and that this idea came from what was written in the literature and what was said from the platform. This was NOT an 'isolated' case as you are pathetically trying to assert---it happened in all congregations and you and I both know it. The fact that you are lying through your teeth by trying to state that it didn't happen, that it was only a few people who were going out on their own and promoting this idea, is nauseating and incredibly deceitful. I believe though, you call it "theocratic warfare" (roll of eyes).
This was no isolated case. I know many Witnesses from many parts of North America and even Europe who remember those years leading up to 1975. Some, like you, choose to have the selective amnesia by ignoring all the quotes that were in the literature at the time that most definitely pointed to 1975 as being "The End", but most realize that Organization made predictions that they should have never made. After they lost a tremendous number of followers in the following years, even the top guns were forced to acknowledge that they were at least partially to blame for the fiasco:
"With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man's existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. ... Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility." Watchtower 1980 Mar 15 p.17
So please don't sit there and try to tell me that what the District Overseer said at the assembly was only an 'isolated' case. Clearly, as the statement above shows, the Organization itself promoted this idea.* * *
Didn't hear back from the asshole after this.
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Mary
" how inappropriate it would be for any member of the congregation to react according to the world’s spirit, vehemently demanding “justice” or that “something be done.."
While this could cover any number of things---from someone defrauding you to adultery, I have a sneaky suspicion that this is aimed at parents whose children have been sexually molested by a fellow Dub but where nothing is done to the molester because there wasn't the all-important '2 eye witnesses'. It seems that more and more parents are not content to "leave it in Jehovah's hands" and they're going to the police themselves.
In addition to the Candice Conti case, there are at least 3 more sexual abuse lawsuits that have been filed against Crooklyn in the last few weeks. Not only are they getting really bad international press on the subject, but it's costing them alot of $$$.
"This could be likened to a patient---that does not like something about the doctor"
Ya. Kinda like the dickhead doctor I had that misdiagnosed my cancer for 2 frigging years. If I had not taken matters into my own hands, I wouldn't be sitting here today. Are they suggesting that we do whatever our doctor says, even when he/she doesn't know what they're doing and where they've had multiple complaints against them?
What a bunch of idiots.....
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Next time a JW tells you that you shouldn't let your children go to college ...
by EdenOne intell them this:.
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eden.
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Mary
Or you could even show them this fav from 45 years ago. See what they say:
Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 - "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. ... Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!"
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Find What Your Social Status Was in the Congregation
by Mary inever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?
the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:.
1. at the top of the social order of things within the congregation is of course, the presiding overseer and his family.
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Mary
JeffT said: The elder that officiated our wedding was like this. After a few years he couldn't take it anymore and quit being an elder.
Yep, it seems that those who were genuinely concerned about people got harassed by the other elders that didn't give a damn and they either end up stepping down before they have a nervous breakdown, or before they're forced out.
Hey Outlaw!
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Find What Your Social Status Was in the Congregation
by Mary inever notice how the "happiest people on earth" are also the most class-oriented?
the social structure in the congregation is more complex than the blueprints of a nuclear warhead, but just so that you "remember your place", see if you can find where your niche was/is:.
1. at the top of the social order of things within the congregation is of course, the presiding overseer and his family.
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Mary
they would stand up and object to things that they saw being done wrong and were willing to question things that weren't done properly.
Yep, I used to do that too. And then there would be the inevitable "Can we see you in the second school for a little chat?"
One of my best friends (now an ex-Dub) and I went to the elders about one of the elders' wives who was physically abusing another couples' 3 year old that she used to babysit. Despite the fact that there were half a dozen other sisters there that saw the abuse, none of them would say a word to the elders. Only my friend and I got in major shit for doing so.