Posts by Mary

317

Inviting djeggnog to discuss the blood doctrine

by jgnat in

djeggnog invited me to start a new thread about the blood doctrine, which i am happy to do here.

his objection was my statement,.

"i've seen the blood video, a deceiving mix of scripture, fearmongering and pseudoscience, with plenty of lab coats in view.

Mary

Mary said: If he accepts a blood transfusion to try and save his life, he will be murdered by God at Armageddon and will never get a resurrection---his eternal salvation is in [jeopardy].

djeggnog said: You don't know this to be true and I don't either.

Then perhaps you should try reading what your gods in Crooklyn say about this very subject eggnog:

Questions from Readers:"In view of the seriousness of taking blood into the human system by a transfusion, would violation of the Holy Scriptures in this regard subject the dedicated, baptized receiver of blood transfusion to being disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation? The inspired Holy Scriptures answer yes."-----Watchtower, January 15, 1961, p. 63
"They know that if they violate God's law on blood and the child dies in the process, they have endangered that child's opportunity for everlasting life in God's new world......it may result in the immediate and very temporary prolongation of life, but that at the cost of eternal life for a dedicated Christian."-----Blood, Medicine, and the Law of God, p.54

djegghead then said: His oncologist was evidently powerless to save him

No he wasn't 'powerless to save him' had he been allowed to take the needed transfusions. His bone marrow was completely shot. He need blood and no blood substitute would work in a case like his. Which part of that don't you understand?

but the doctor was perfectly willing to transfuse blood in violation of God's command to the world since Noah stepped off the ark in an attempt to try to give your brother a few additional years of life and at what cost to the doctor?

Of course the doctor was willing to transfuse blood because a) doctors are trained to save lives---they're not there to watch people being forced to commit suicide like the Organization demands. And b) there is no 'command from God' that humans cannot transfuse blood from one live human to another, found anywhere in the bible. And by the way, that command that God gave to Noah did not apply to the entire human race. If you bothered to actually read the bible, you'll see that the Israelites were allowed to sell unbled meat to foreigners:

"...YOU must not eat any body [already] dead. To the alien resident who is inside your gates you may give it, and he must eat it; or there may be a selling of it to a foreigner, because you are a holy people to Jehovah your God..."---Deut. 14:21

egghead said: but if a blood transfusion lowers the immune response, making it harder to fight infections -- and it does! -- and it predisposes a sick patient for the inset of infections that their immune system could have fought off were it not for the transfused blood having been introduced into the patient body, what guarantee did the oncologist give him that he would survive until the bone marrow transplant had been administered?

Your statement is so riciulous on so many levels it's hard to know where to even start. First of all, blood transfusions do not automatically lower the recipients' immune system, or virutally everyone whose ever had a BT would be six feet under. It lowers the immune system when it's not a proper match whereby it triggers a response from the patient's own immune system. The destruction of incompatible red blood cells is called a hemolytic transfusion reaction, the destruction of incompatible white blood cells causes a febrile non-hemolytic transfusion reaction (FNHTR), and the destruction of incompatible platelets causes post-transfusion purpura. No one here is denying that this doesn't happen on occassion, but YOU are trying to make it sound that every single time a person receives a blood transfusion, their immune system is automatically lowered.

This was the scenario: He did not have enough red cells, white cells or platelets to survive the chemotherapy treatment. In order for him to survive, he required several transfusions during the chemo treatment, which people do all the time. Please don't try and make it sound as though his body would somehow have been more able to fight off infections without the required blood because to anyone who has more that two brains cells working (which I doubt you have), that does not happen for someone whose own body isn't producing enough mature cells anymore. This was his only shot at saving his life you moron, yet the Govering Body members would prefer to see you die a shitty death needlessly rather than admit that they've been wrong all these years.

There are no 'guarantees' in life, but since he had a family member who was an exact match for the stem cell transplant, he would have had an excellent chance at surviving had it not been for the blood doctrine.

I know you're bitter, that you hate Jehovah's Witnesses, that you hate "the cult" to which your brother belonged, that you hate the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, and I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses, so you hate me, too, and I know that I would be dead right now if you could choke me out, or stab me to death or you'd empty all 17 rounds of a Glock 9mm into my body

Oh Christ......are you trying to get in your daily 'persecution fix' eggnog? I have no desire to kill you or choke you or stab you or 'empty all 17 rounds of a Glock 9mm' into your body-----where do you come up with this shit? I think you're an idiot, a brainwashed fool but as for killing you? Can't say I'd ever consider it. As for hating the Govering Body---you at least got that one right. They're the ones that make the rules that has killed tens of thousands of Witnesses over the year and what I'd like to see happen to them is that they be charged with Assisted Suicide every time a Witness dies for refusing a blood transfusion that could have saved their lives. They'd be getting "New Light" pretty damn quick on the subject.

we believe in things like free will, in not violating one's own conscience, and we also believe in a person's right to make informed choices.

ROFLMAO! Free will? Ya right. The WTS believes in about as much Free Will as what the Third Reich did. As long as you obey the leaders, don't read any books that are unfavourable to them and never ask too many disturbing questions, then yes---you can live under the delusion that you actually have 'free will'. You most certainly do not believe in letting a person decide life and death matters by using their own conscience as I already showed you from your own stinking literature that accepting transfusions is a disfellowshipping offense and that you are 'jeapordizing your eternal salvation'by doing so.

You believe in stripping folks of their right to self-determination

Oh my holy god. This, coming from a guy who belongs to a religion that forces their members to committ suicide when a perfectly viable treatment can save their lives? The Watchtower Society does not allow their followers the "right to self-determination", because if they did---they wouldn't disfellowship people who were guided by their own conscience!

That there are men -- soldiers that have returned from the war in Iraq -- that were faced with the choice of having both of their legs amputated or dying in a number of days or weeks from the inset of wet gangrene in them that have chosen to die because they did not wish live the reset of their lives without legs and believed their wives deserved a whole man. They died so that the family could move on.

Your drone above bears absolutely no resemblance to what happened to my brother in law. He was not a vegetable or a war amputee and he would not have been any "burden" to my sister. He simply needed the BTs to get him through so that the stem cell transplant would grow new bone marrow for him. Where do you come up with this shit?

Your brother died because of his love for God. How ridiculous is that?

No, he died because he was born and raised in this cult that allow no free will or self-preservation. These things are all sacrificed on the alter to a bunch of senile, gross old men who are far more interested in retaining their power over 7 millions lives, than to give a crap about how many of them actually die.

Eggnog, you're an asshole, plain and simple. You have no real convictions other than the tripe you read in the Craptower magazine and are little more than a zombie for the Borg. I guess this is the easiest way for you to get your time in on your Field Serve-Us Report because you obviously aren't spending any time at the meetings or knocking on doors. Gee.....what would the Govering Body say if they knew you were visiting and associating with 'apostates'?

317

Inviting djeggnog to discuss the blood doctrine

by jgnat in

djeggnog invited me to start a new thread about the blood doctrine, which i am happy to do here.

his objection was my statement,.

"i've seen the blood video, a deceiving mix of scripture, fearmongering and pseudoscience, with plenty of lab coats in view.

Mary

Here's another scenario for eggnog to contemplate: A family member is diagnosed with a horrifying form of leukemia called Myelodysplasia and he's in the advanced stages of it. Basically, his bone marrow has been completely destroyed by his being exposed to various toxic chemicals over the years, most notably, benzene. With the bone marrow unable to make new blood, and with his present blood count being composed of immature cells, his counts are way too low. His red count is at 80, his white count and platelets drop to 1/10th of what they should be and nothing but a stem cell/bone marrow transplant will be able to save his life.

In order for this to work though, his present bone marrow has to be destroyed by chemotherapy and then at the right time, the matched stem cells from a donor (in this case, his sister) are given to him which will regenerate into normal bone marrow which will start producing normal cells again. In order for him to survive the chemo treatment, he's going to need multiple blood transfusions to keep him alive until the treatment has been administered.

Unfortunately, this man is a Jehovah's Witness and he's been taught his entire life that God would rather see him dead rather than accept blood from another human being, even though no one was slaughtered or killed in order to obtain the needed blood. If he accepts a blood transfusion to try and save his life, he will be murdered by God at Armageddon and will never get a resurrection---his eternal salvation is in jeapordy. Not only that but if he takes the transfusion, he'll be completely shunned by fellow family members and life long friends---in fact, everyone he loves will look through him as though he does not exist. This man has been forced into a horrifying situation: Either accept the required transfusions now and be able to continue to live, or refuse and come face to face with his own mortality. Coming face to face with your own mortality is easier said than done and only those who have had to do it, can fully understand what it's like to know you could be dead within a few months.

The man decides (against the Oncologists' advice) to forego the transfusions as he doesn't want to disobey Jehovah. He begins to find it difficult to breath as his lungs aren't getting enough oxygen and he's running on half a tank. He starts sleeping alot more, some times 12 or 13 hours. He turns white and cannot be around other people because he might catch something from them and since he has virtually no white cells left, his body cannot fight off even the simplest of viruses.

One night he goes into convulsions and is raced to the hospital. They're not the most competent bunch and thinking he has an infection in his lungs, they pump him full of a bag of very unstable antibiotics that have not been diluted properly. Normally this would not cause that much of a problem in a healthy person, but in this case, it goes straight to the weakest point in his body: his lungs. He's gone so long without adequate oxygen that the cells in his lungs are beginning to die and they become inflamed and show up completely white on an X-ray. Even without the antibiotics being adminstered, he's in serious trouble. In a nutshell, he's slowly suffocating to death due to lack of oxygen and will most likely have a heart attack within another month or two. However, with the unstable and undiluted antibiotics being administered, it goes directly to his lungs and slowly burns them. He's put into a coma and put on life support. Over the next 30 days, the mis-administered drug finishes him off and liquifies his lungs. He never regains conscienceness and dies with his broken hearted wife at his side and never really recovers from it. His elderly parents do what no parent should ever have to do: they bury their own child.

This has happened because the cult he belongs to, likes to play God with peoples lives. Rather than admit that they have been wrong for the last 50 years in their bizarre interpretation of dietary laws written for another group of people thousands of years ago, they instead stubbornly try to insist that they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. They teach that a loving God would rather see the above-scenario play out rather than let someone try to save their own life by accepting a blood transfusion from a willing donor because it's just so 'risky' to accept a blood transfusion and there are 'other things that can be used'.

djeggnog, your blind devotion to an outdated man-made law and lack of understanding of human nature is pathetic and nauseating to anyone who reads your bullshit tripe. If the Governing Body said tomorrow that it was okay to accept transfusions, you'd suddenly get anmesia over all the crap you've spewed on the subject and fully back them in anything they said on the matter. In other words, you're not interested in 'truth', you're only interested in being a 'yes man' to a bunch of senile old thugs who wouldn't glance in your direction or give you the time of day if you needed it.

89

Higher Education June 15th Watchtower 2011

by jwfacts in

"higher education: jesus warned against seeking your own glory.

(john 7:18) whatever you decide as to how much secular education you will obtain, have you made sure of the more important things?phil.

1:9,10.. grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life.

Mary

Bible School Bull Shit for Single Brothers

I'm sure this was just a typo..........

79

Are we losing members quicker than the WT ??

by wobble in

jw
friends

reading a thread from just a few months ago, made me realise that a lot of people who used to be regular contributors here no longer do so.. i know that people have always moved on, as the anger and hurt get less, as the wt mind-set totally disappears, we feel the need to come here less and less, but because of the intelligence, insight, wit and wisdom of these people, the board is somewhat impoverished each time one of these moves on.. this is a plea to all who post now, and some who still read but don't post, please do not leave us entirely, the contributions on here are literally life-saving for many.

it is easy to get dangerously suicidal when the whole wt pack of cards falls down for you.. please do not become a stranger to us !.

Mary

Punky, just look at how much old I am than you..........

79

Are we losing members quicker than the WT ??

by wobble in

jw
friends

reading a thread from just a few months ago, made me realise that a lot of people who used to be regular contributors here no longer do so.. i know that people have always moved on, as the anger and hurt get less, as the wt mind-set totally disappears, we feel the need to come here less and less, but because of the intelligence, insight, wit and wisdom of these people, the board is somewhat impoverished each time one of these moves on.. this is a plea to all who post now, and some who still read but don't post, please do not leave us entirely, the contributions on here are literally life-saving for many.

it is easy to get dangerously suicidal when the whole wt pack of cards falls down for you.. please do not become a stranger to us !.

Mary

I don't post anywhere near as much as what I used to. But it's not because someone has pissed me off or I find the board boring. It's just that sometimes you get busy in life, or sometimes you just need a break. I know other 'old timers' who rarely, if ever, post on here anymore, and it's just because they've moved on.......Unclebruce, Gumby, Delilah, KW13, Luna, Littletoe, Bumblebee, Dr. Jekyll, Buttlight, Funky Derek, Old Flame.....How many on here know who these posters even are? There's a ton of new ones that weren't on here 5 or 6 years ago.....that's just the nature of things.

89

Higher Education June 15th Watchtower 2011

by jwfacts in

"higher education: jesus warned against seeking your own glory.

(john 7:18) whatever you decide as to how much secular education you will obtain, have you made sure of the more important things?phil.

1:9,10.. grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life.

Mary

Thank you St.George and Wannabefree. Evidently I have not been paying close attention and keeping up with Jehovah's Celestial Chariot..........

89

Higher Education June 15th Watchtower 2011

by jwfacts in

"higher education: jesus warned against seeking your own glory.

(john 7:18) whatever you decide as to how much secular education you will obtain, have you made sure of the more important things?phil.

1:9,10.. grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life.

Mary

In time, he graduated from what is now called the Bible School for Single Brothers

WTF is 'the Bible School for Single Brothers'? Are they talking about Bethel?

Grzegorz, the computer programmer, made some changes in his life. He said: "Taking seriously the advice of the elders, I simplified my life. I realized that I did not need to further my secular education.

Um, assuming that 'Grzegorz' is a real person, he must have already had a BSc in Computer Science (which requires a college or university education) or he was self-taught. If he was self taught, he still would have spent alot of time learning how to be a computer programmer, as its not a discipline you can pick up overnight. Is there anyone in the Writing Department that has any functioning brain cells left?

I also find it quite interesting that Bethel is only interested in recruiting young people who have a degree or diploma in certain disciplines. A sister I knew who tried desperately to get in to the Canadian Bethel was specifically told that if she went to Nursing School and got her degree, she could come back. A brother I knew who also wanted to go to Bethel was basically told the same thing: 'you need to get a degree in something if you want to come here.'

So why the double standard? Oh I forgot----if you get a degree solely for 'furthering the Book Publishing Company's Profits the Good News, then it's okay, but if you do it simply to make a decent living then you're 'materialistic' and lacking in faith.

19

WHERE WAS THIS BOYS GOD??????

by whereami in

jw
friends

district attorney r. seth williams - the first prosecutor in the country to charge a church official for abusing of children they were supposed to protect.. what a great god/father that we have.

sits back and watches this go on and on.

what a sorry excuss for a loving god.. .

Mary

That video just made me sick. I have never understood how anyone could do something so disgusting to an innocent child. I disagree with beksbks' method of punishment though, as shooting is too good for scum like this. I say: give them a taste of their own medicine and stick a red hot poker up their asses and let them die that way.

Bastards.

61

Going Door to Door with Scrolls

by VM44 in

does anyone know where this anachronistic and propagandistic picture came from?.

did a watchtower artist draw it?.

.

Mary

I am just seeing this thread now and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this picture below. I thought for sure someone on here was yanking our chain so I went over and sneakily checked out my father's copy and sure enough it's there in living colour. As everyone else has already mentioned, it is absurd to think that the early disciples went door-to-door with freaking scrolls on their person. The bible does state that the earliest disciples went and preached about Jesus, but the historical and archaeological evidence points to the fact that the writings of the New Testament weren't even written until anywhere from 25 - 50 years after Jesus died. Sooooo, if these guys below were preaching about Jesus, then they sure as hell would not have had any 'scrolls' with them to back up their claims because nothing had been written about him yet.

Not only that, but you couldn't just go to the local WalMart and buy packages of paper----papyrus had to be imported from Egypt at that time and was very expensive. The earliest Christians were not rich by any stretch of the imagination and had to meet in each others' homes (Acts 20:20) as they could not afford to build their own places of worship at that time. Not only that, but chances are that most of the earliest disciples were not literate:

"writing was in the hands of an élite of trained specialists, and reading required an advanced education available only to a few."----W.H. Kelber, The Oral and Written Gospel (Philadelphia: Fortress, 1983), p. 17.

That is why everything was passed on orally for so many decades, because the earliest Christians had neither the means or ability to write things down. And even if by some miracle some of the disciples were able to read and write and were wealthy enough to import papyrus and then had the time to write things down, the average citizen back then would not have been able to read anything on the scrolls because they were illiterate.

The Writing Department deserves an "Assholery of the Year" award for attempting to show that the early disciples went knocking on doors trying to place scrolls with the average peasant (for a contribution to the worldwide witnessing work no doubt). Just unbelievably stupid.........

26

I'm Going Back To The Meetings

by minimus in

jw
friends

....just kidding..

Mary

Brother Minimus, it is indeed encouraging to see lost sheeple like yourself returning to the protection of Jehovah's organization before The End strikes the rest of us dead as a door nail; where we will be turned into either fodder for a lot of hungry birds, or fertilizer for all the lovely gardens in the Noo Cistern of Things.

By the way, here's that link you were asking me about: Sexaholic Anonymous