i would just like to thank everyone for the excellent posts that have appeared here on this site.
i esp would like to thank simon for making this possible.
i sincerely believe that the "net thang" will continue to play a role in helping jw who are sincerely searching for a confirmation that all their doubts and wondering over the years was not the result of them being spiritually weak.
JT,
You were there on my first post. I recently voted you tops here on JWD. You are the essence of unpretentious wisdom. I can't believe you will not be here!
But you got to do what you got to do. I hope some day you won't even think of yourself as an XJW. I wish this for all of us here.
Please email me and Joy your phone number, just to be sure we will not loose touch forever.
Jst2laws
Ps- Joy just pointed out you already posted your phone. I overlooked it.
had an interesting talk while visiting my jw son-in-law this past weekend.
out of the blue he tells me that there are some brothers and sisters in his congregation who know about the dateline program, and who have called or written dateline urging them to run the show!!
these are active jws.
Not only young people are walking away. When I moved to this area 4 years ago there were 14 elders in the congregation. When I resigned there were 7 left.
Simon did a survey last summer and one of the statitics that come up was that half the people on this board were in the org over 20 years.
A lot of us old timers are walking away too.
Jst2laws
introduction: much has been said about the jw judicial committee system, and all the negatives, along with some concurrent shepherding visits.
the purpose of this short series is to discuss how and why we made shepherding visits, and what those visits were like from the perspective as elders.
nothing here is designed to be self-serving, self-indulgent, or self-justifying ... it needs to be told from the vantage point of how we felt at the time, and what we thought we were accomplishing ... though blind to the hurt and harm some of this caused.. ps: future installments will eliminate the background, and be shorter.. background: our congregation was known as the armpit of the circuit because of high inactivity, high irregularity.
Amazing,
Thanks again for the trip back into the grim reality of the past. I especially appreciate your humble portrayal of our past inadequacy.
It was our best, but really lacked what she needed. Elder S and I talked later and we both realized how inadequate we felt to help her.Then your admitting you wanted to learn more from the 'shepherded'.We felt that we did not really help her and apologized for not being what she needed
I read the book cover to cover ... and for the first time felt some sense of understanding my own emotional struggles.This brings so many memories to mind. My library would be half it's size without experiences like this.
Jst2laws
i was checking on amazon.com the other day and i noticed that there was a revised edition of co jonsson's book "the gentile times reconsidered".
i have the 1986 edition which is 228 pages long, but i've heard that the new edition is 360 pages long.
can anyone who has this new edition enlighten me as to what new information is i this superb publication?
Dungbeetle,
You keep amazing me!
Jst2laws
i have been following mulans thread regarding her mothers living situation and the harassment of the elders from her congregation.
the poor woman is in her 90s and in poor health.
mulan had to call patterson to have something done to stop it.. .
BeautifulGarbage,
I'll give you an example of how twisted the system is.
We had an 80 years old sister who pioneered up to the last few years of her life. She missed only 3 meetings in 20 years and as I conducted the WT I always looked for her hand because she would give old experiences demonstrating faithfulness.
Her driving got so bad we arranged for a few different friends to pick her up and take her home. When her arthritis got sever enough she could not do her dishes or clean her home, we organized several friends to go in and clean for her and take care of her needs.
This was her undoing. Two sisters found the remains of chewing tobacco in several places while cleaning. Organizing her closet others found fresh cans of snuff. She had been counseled about this habit years ago so the judicial committee, according to WT guidelines, found no basis for mercy. At age 80 and sickly she was cut off from everyone she knew. She died about six months later.
Yes she got loving attention from the friends until it was found she had violated one of the WT rules. Then we discarded her to die.
Jst2laws
im just kind of thinking out loud as i type this.
for those of you patient enough to read through the whole thing you win a prize!
this post has a threefold purpose:.
Billy,
I like this kind of thread. You must be a peace maker at heart.
Hope to seeing you this summer.
Megadude,
Very good. I agree completely
I won't *necessarily exclude Christianity from being true just because I got conned by Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be Christian.
I suspect many were Christians when they went into the organization
but are no longer now that they left the organization. If it were not for the distrust and disbelief that results from being "conned" wouldn't we normally default to just being Christian again upon leaving? The fact that many do not could be evidence the WT changed them, or is still influencing. Horrible thought!
But to be consistent with Billy's theme of varying reality, maybe this phenomenon is just the consequence the experience, of our spiritual growth.
Jst2laws
i am going to stick my neck out and postulate that the gb is not evil .
nor is the watchtower society as a whole.
i'm sorry this got a little long but please accept the challenge and show me wrong.
Comf,
Well said. One of my favorite movies and a great line.
"Who do I see about that?"
I don't know!
Chilling!
Jst2laws
i am going to stick my neck out and postulate that the gb is not evil .
nor is the watchtower society as a whole.
i'm sorry this got a little long but please accept the challenge and show me wrong.
Farkel.
I read over your two post several times and I'm happy to say I agree with you completely. Your summary of the issues was, as usual, superb. It should be printed in the Insight Into the JW View of the Scriptures. While this is good for all to review the issues, you and I need to figure out exactly on which issues we disagree.
I assert therefore that none of the final remaining "core values" of Jehovah's Witnesses are the least bit important in the big picture, even excusing them for their past excesses and failures.Fark, I'm not "excusing them for their past excesses and failures" There IS no excuse. Excuse or not, can we say each and every one of them is knowingly doing wrong to the great harm of others?
John Booth was a church mouse who had a long history of "following'. George Gangas was just a 'good ol boy' who happened to be of Greek background, which opened doors. Milton Henchel was always kind and meek at Bethel but what happened in later years makes me doubt my own arguments on this thread. Dan Sydlik played base ball with the 'factory boys' but when I had need for some compassionate, reasonable support he nearly drove me to suicide. Yet, if I would have stayed there long enough I'm afraid I could have become just like them! I was duped the whole time I was there. At what point does the duped become the duper if no one really knows what is going on? I guess the question is DO THEY ALL KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON?
Fark, don't forget I do not disagree with your last two posts on this subject. Maybe all the Gb members are evil. If anyone human should be held accountable it should be those at the top. But when those at the top believe those who preceded them at the top really spoke for God, and realize they are only there because they went along with these 'leaders', can we imagine how brave Ray Franz was to speak up and suggest the big boys before him were wrong? At some point the cowardice of these men must be judged as "evil" but I'm not making such a judgment.
Jst2laws
i am going to stick my neck out and postulate that the gb is not evil .
nor is the watchtower society as a whole.
i'm sorry this got a little long but please accept the challenge and show me wrong.
Hello Siegswife,
I once told the most famous JW "apostate" that for about 4 weeks I thought he was the most important person in the world until I realized his importance was only in connection with the WTS which is nothing but a fraud. His response was that he has had bigger disappointments in his life than my disillusion.
I do not believe the current GB or the Watchtower Society is the evil slave any more than I believe Russell was the faithful slave. It is just another modern day "snare and a ratchet". Nothing prophetic nor scripturally significant. It probably only exists because Rutherford, after chasing away 75% of the so called 'faithful', effectively played Lee Iacoca in salvaging the WT corporation.
Jst2laws
i am going to stick my neck out and postulate that the gb is not evil .
nor is the watchtower society as a whole.
i'm sorry this got a little long but please accept the challenge and show me wrong.
Ven,
You know I love you and respect your viewpoint. You have suffered from this system and you and your family continue to suffer every day.
ONE SLAVE!!!!! there's no way a faithful slave and an evil slave can coexist becuase it's NOT about a klass or a group of people or some divine appointment. It's an illustration (like all the others before and after it) about keeping on the watch and how they could prove themselves faithful or evil by their actions.What is clear is a system, organization, “tree” or whatever is hurting people. This is not the same issue as a “faithful” slave or an “evil” slave. This we agree is not a Klass issue but an individual issue. I’m still wondering, can condemn the system without labeling each individual “leader” of the system as evil? I liked the thoughts brought out here, but still see bases for condemning only the system but leaving room for the possibility that some individuals, even so called leaders, really believe they are doing “God’s will”.
Your signature is great: "I survived you, now the questions is 'Can you survive me???'" You keep coming up with originals.
Jst2laws
