Posts by jst2laws

“I no longer believe in god, not the one you talk to….. I realized that the god of the bible is not perfect as he claims.” Perhaps I don’t believe in the God others are talking about either, and trying to relate perfection to the reality we see is impossible. I hope equating “god is perfect” and “God is Love” has not caused irreversible estrangement.

Translating “teleios” to “perfect” is creating terribly disappointed expectations. The word simply means ‘reached its purpose, complete’. The word could be translated adequate, sufficient, complete as far as I’m concerned. He IS Love. Forget the human misconception of perfection. We are only disappointed when we expect too much, from men, an organization, or God. We have a lot of misconceptions to overcome about him, some from our perception of him from what we think we got from the Bible, and some from men who we trust. You are a loving person. I really believe we are his ‘image’. If that small understanding is true, than we have more to learn about him.

Jst2laws

58

My god!

by mommy in

jw
friends

i just posted a reply to shelby aka aguest on another thread.

i can say it was the most emotional post of my life here at jw.com.

i don't want it lost.

jst2laws

Woooowwww Mommie,
I hate to hear this from you.

“I no longer believe in god, not the one you talk to….. I realized that the god of the bible is not perfect as he claims.” Perhaps I don’t believe in the God others are talking about either, and trying to relate perfection to the reality we see is impossible. I hope equating “god is perfect” and “God is Love” has not caused irreversible estrangement.

Translating “teleios” to “perfect” is creating terribly disappointed expectations. The word simply means ‘reached its purpose, complete’. The word could be translated adequate, sufficient, complete as far as I’m concerned. He IS Love. Forget the human misconception of perfection. We are only disappointed when we expect too much, from men, an organization, or God. We have a lot of misconceptions to overcome about him, some from our perception of him from what we think we got from the Bible, and some from men who we trust. You are a loving person. I really believe we are his ‘image’. If that small understanding is true, than we have more to learn about him.

Jst2laws

58

My god!

by mommy in

jw
friends

i just posted a reply to shelby aka aguest on another thread.

i can say it was the most emotional post of my life here at jw.com.

i don't want it lost.

jst2laws

Woooowwww Mommie,
I hate to hear this from you.

“I no longer believe in god, not the one you talk to….. I realized that the god of the bible is not perfect as he claims.” Perhaps I don’t believe in the God others are talking about either, and trying to relate perfection to the reality we see is impossible. I hope equating “god is perfect” and “God is Love” has not caused irreversible estrangement.

Translating “teleios” to “perfect” is creating terribly disappointed expectations. The word simply means ‘reached its purpose, complete’. The word could be translated adequate, sufficient, complete as far as I’m concerned. He IS Love. Forget the human misconception of perfection. We are only disappointed when we expect too much, from men, an organization, or God. We have a lot of misconceptions to overcome about him, some from our perception of him from what we think we got from the Bible, and some from men who we trust. You are a loving person. I really believe we are his ‘image’. If that small understanding is true, than we have more to learn about him.

Jst2laws

9

Clarification to WTS CORP LIST & LAW

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i am bringing this to the top because of some comments to my previous post on whether i am stretching matters and some legal speculations and issues.

i did not state by listing the corporations that i was citing solid assets or whether these would be good attack in litigation or whether they might be shielded.

here are some helpful clarifications:.

jst2laws

Fred,
I admire this rare occasion where you question, advise, and agree. I hope to see more of it in the future. As HoChiMin agreed, "all should go to the authorities". What you may not appreciate, Fred, is that loyalty to even the inferences of the society have caused elders to fail to do just that. It has even cause some over zealous elders to encourage, if not insist, that others likewise not got to the authorities.

No one has intentionally fabricated a plan here to harm further victims, but this is the outcome. And the spirituality of the individuals responsible is evident by the way they now handle the consequences. If lawsuits are the only way to stop the cover up or change the system then we, even you, should support it. Especially if you have children, meditate before you reply.

Jst2laws

18

Convention Summary

by Moxy in

jw
friends

as promised, here are my observations from the three convention days here in hamilton, ontario.

i hadnt expected to say much since many like lostmyreligion and bibleexaminer had already discussed it a lot.

actually i have quite a few things to say, hopeful meaningful things.. a few general observations: .

jst2laws

Mox,
Excellent. You appear to be much better at paying attention then I ever was. I hated to bluff my way through the service meeting review of the DC.
Check out my post at
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7696&site=3
Did you notice an intentional avoidance of the “organization” word, especially in the Baptism questions?
As you notice at the above thread, I fear the boys are pulling a slick one on the R&f. Using the key words "the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses" referring to the new Corporation while everyone else thinks they are getting back to simple scriptural structure of a Biblical 'Christian Congregation'.
Jst2laws

42

Sci-Fi Fans Only: A.I.

by Maximus in

jw
friends

i hear tell there are some aficionados out there.. as a young man i secretly loved ray bradbury, isaac asimov, l. sprague decamp, poul anderson, arthur c. clarke and others.

loved brian aldiss' "super-toys last all summer.".

when the movie "2001: a space odyssey" premiered, i sneaked into a theater all by myself, and was blown away.

jst2laws

Hey Maximus,

My wife wanted to go this week-end but it didn’t work out. But I saw 2001 when it came out, I guess about 30 years ago? I saw it when I was in Bethel, with a brother who has stayed, is still there. Just 2 months ago this same brother said to my wife, “I’m still here but I have learned to keep my mouth shut”. Boy, am I glad I left.

Anyway, we will go see A.I. soon
Jst2laws.

42

disfellowshipped elders reinstated

by jnc in

would appreciate any info or experiences on this subject.... a brother is disfellowshipped, 2 years later reinstated, five years later disfellowshipped again, immorality, 4 years later reinstated, becomes elder, 8 years later runs off with pioneer 16 yr old , divorces wife , dumps girl, remarrys 5 years later, appointed elder again, i believe due to the buddy system, how many times do'es a person have to be disfellowshipped before they say no to any priveledges let alone being an elder again ?

jst2laws

Alternative,
Your experience sounds like one I dealt with as part of the judicial committee. Yes, we were trained to consider attitude as a prime factor. In judging repentance a bad attitude would be a good ‘tell’. But you seem to feel you deserved what you got. You know better than anyone. But I agree with others here, the true Christian Congregation is quick, as Jesus was, to forgive. After two years of trying, MAN! If you had a really BAD attitude, maybe. I don’t see an attitude in your posts.

Listen brother, here you are trying to get in, and here I am trying to get out, without being DF'd for “private ideas” (Aug 1, 2001) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/forum.asp?id=19&site=3

Why not read the some books first. Start with Crisis of Conscience! http://www.commentarypress.com/
Once you get back in they wont let you read them, nor can you come visit here without displaying a BAD ATTITUDE again.

Jst2laws, who sat on his last judicial committee as a judge only 4 months ago and sick to admit it.

7

Is it a Congregation or a tricky corporation

by jst2laws in

jw
friends

i have been trying to make points with some in my congregation by dropping neutral hints, such as: did you know since 1985 we (they) do not baptize in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit but we have taken holy spirit out of the process and placed the spirit directed organization into the picture?.

i told several on their way to the convention to look for this as well as the emphasis in the drama on loyalty to the organization.

i havent been to the convention this year but may have to persevere through one more because two folks came back telling me they did not hear any emphasis on organization.

jst2laws

Maximus,
Thanks for the response, and the personal encouragement by e-mail last week.

Quote: “the governing body was "closely associated with the board of directors of the Pennsylvania corporation." Indeed they had all the power. Finally a GB was formally named, which consequently reduced the power of N.H. Knorr.”

Brings back moments of history in my memory. During that not so smooth transition Freddie Franz told a friend of mine “all the power of this organization has been invested in the President”. (Dan K., if you recognize that quote, get in touch with me).

Maximus, are you suggesting that the GB may not be in complete control?

Quote “These individuals are now recognized by their being in corporate positions. The letter from the entity the "Christian Congregation" was a letter of policy. Was it cleared by Legal? By the GB? How does Service now fit in? Has the effective/actual power of the GB been diminished? You're starting to see the first signs of various entities exerting themselves.”

I would love to see them exert themselves. But Bethel loyalty is self preservation. These guys cant jeopardize their personal carriers in a power struggle. But if your saying departments may be struggling to stay on top, there might be a measure of security in such a struggle.
You said “I'm trying to provoke thought--and the personal input of others.” You got me going.

Jst2laws

7

Is it a Congregation or a tricky corporation

by jst2laws in

jw
friends

i have been trying to make points with some in my congregation by dropping neutral hints, such as: did you know since 1985 we (they) do not baptize in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit but we have taken holy spirit out of the process and placed the spirit directed organization into the picture?.

i told several on their way to the convention to look for this as well as the emphasis in the drama on loyalty to the organization.

i havent been to the convention this year but may have to persevere through one more because two folks came back telling me they did not hear any emphasis on organization.

jst2laws

Hello Truman,
Thanks for your diligent note taking. I notice just a few threads down another of your references to the DC. Yet you sounded sad, or disillusioned. Perhaps you are where I was last year. I can picture you there listening diligently and note taking loyally. Anyway I appreciate your observations. Take care.
Jst2laws