Posts by JT

11

Of Tacking and New Light

by Gozz in

jw
friends

the subject of 'new light' holds some fascination for me.

and i have sought a wide spectrum of views to really understand the concept.

proverbs (4:18, i think) says the path of the righteous on gets lighter and lighter; pastor russel (or some very old literature)reaffirmed this inspired thought by stating that 'new light' never contradicts 'old light', only that it makes things clearer.

JT

trevor stated:

I think a more accurate description of the WT is - lost at sea.
*************

you are one sick dude

BUT I LOVE IT SMILE

great post

JT

72

When should you Disassociate yourself?

by happytobefree in

jw
friends

i have been having discussion with my sister (relative), who is an active witness, about writing a letter of disassociation.

the reason being is that i have not attended the meetings in over a year and it's been 4 years since i have went out in the jw ministry.. i going to try to sum this topic up.

my sister think that i should not da myself because i have not done any immoral act in her thinking.

JT

. All the WTB&TS does is print literature, provide finances for traveling overseers, and provide disaster relief for those in need.

****************8

i can't agee with you on the statement above , due to the fact that the WT does much more- in fact they make many of the rules that jw live and die by

what i would suggest that you do is take a little time to do some outside research as well as inside an you will find that the wt does more than just print books

just my 2

JT

72

When should you Disassociate yourself?

by happytobefree in

jw
friends

i have been having discussion with my sister (relative), who is an active witness, about writing a letter of disassociation.

the reason being is that i have not attended the meetings in over a year and it's been 4 years since i have went out in the jw ministry.. i going to try to sum this topic up.

my sister think that i should not da myself because i have not done any immoral act in her thinking.

JT

Trevor stated:

It is pointless to try to explain to friends and relatives. It is best to let them know that you are willing to talk with them, when they are ready. They are trained to close their mind to anything that might weaken the wall they have built around their minds. If and when they are ready, they will ask. There is certain dignity and peace in remaning silent until asked.

**************

this i find is becoming more and more of the view of persons who leave
for it is able to do more in the long run than shutting them down

as i often tell folks jw are like ATM Machines if you put in the wrong pin number 3 times they will shut down- well due to the fact that jw are "Program" they too will shut completly down it the very hint of anyting "Anti-WT"

jw are trained from the day they start to study to be on the lookout for anyone that shows a sign of questioning the Boys in Writing

and most jw "Shutdown.exe" file is up and running at all times
smile

you point is well taken, esp for those who maybe lurking here or just looking to find the best way to handle thier new found knowledge

thanks

JT

72

When should you Disassociate yourself?

by happytobefree in

jw
friends

i have been having discussion with my sister (relative), who is an active witness, about writing a letter of disassociation.

the reason being is that i have not attended the meetings in over a year and it's been 4 years since i have went out in the jw ministry.. i going to try to sum this topic up.

my sister think that i should not da myself because i have not done any immoral act in her thinking.

JT

At some point, and its been only recently, I've come to realize that people will not understand until they are ready to and one simply must be patient.

I've come to the realization, that any decisions that I have made are personal ones and that outside of one's mate and children, its probably best to leave people to figure things out in their own time.

I said too much innitially, and I regret that. These days I am almost completely silent. I don't own anyone an explaination as I am at peace with myself and my decisions.
#######################################

you have hit the nail on the head - what you have stated is the Key to leaving wt- it maybe hard , but it is the key- esp if one still has family inside

in my exp i have never seen anyone who goes out with guns blazing help get anyone out, while on the other hand those who maintain their ablity to still speak to family and folks at the hall have

many times i find that former jw either forget or fail to realize what it was like to be a jw- case in poiny

if we told someone we met at the door that thier is no hell, christmas, your faith is wrong and we got the truth- you will die unless you jion us-- how many folks would have become jw

but instead we built their trust to the point where they woule accept anything we said even without biblical proof- when jw start out we can take folks to the bible to prove many points - yet by the time they are baptized they are willing to accept something merely because the WT publications said it-- they have gone from Jah says it to the Society says it and they have no problem with it

so in order to get folks out we have to do exactly the same thing in REVERSE-- if you read of how folks got thie family out it was always with honey and rarely with vinegar

smile thanks for those excellent personal thoughts and suggestions

just my 2

JT

72

When should you Disassociate yourself?

by happytobefree in

jw
friends

i have been having discussion with my sister (relative), who is an active witness, about writing a letter of disassociation.

the reason being is that i have not attended the meetings in over a year and it's been 4 years since i have went out in the jw ministry.. i going to try to sum this topic up.

my sister think that i should not da myself because i have not done any immoral act in her thinking.

JT

Thank for your imput all. That's why this type of forum is excellent to be able to talk to those who were and are associated with they organization

*******************

this is the most important role that the net serves for jw- it allows them to LEARN how to leave the org with at least a certain amount of Dignity

i have spoken with so many former jw who left in the 70's and early 80's who wish they had done it differently-

not that they would have never DA, but they would have known how to do it with the least amount of pain

the biggest mistakes that many have made is trying to get members of thier family or former hall to UNDERSTAND why they are leaving

i know of bros who Xeroxed tons of articles from old wt to show flip flop and mailed it to all in thier hall with the hopes that it would help

as soon as it got to the first persons house they called the elders and the elders contacted all bookstudy conductors and they in turn all in their bookstudy to be on the lookout for an APOSTSTE package

they were shutdown cold -

BUT TOday JW ARE learning the right way and time to leave so that things are done on thier terms and not the BOYS IN BROOKLYN

yes the NET is great

just my 2

JT

72

When should you Disassociate yourself?

by happytobefree in

jw
friends

i have been having discussion with my sister (relative), who is an active witness, about writing a letter of disassociation.

the reason being is that i have not attended the meetings in over a year and it's been 4 years since i have went out in the jw ministry.. i going to try to sum this topic up.

my sister think that i should not da myself because i have not done any immoral act in her thinking.

JT

It would be good to understand how the concept of "DA" has come about
and then you can decide if this is something for you

it is the brainchild of 2 depts at bethel

1. Service dept
2, Legal dept

the Service dept handles elders, co, do, DFing, etc

they make the rules for Procedures and Policies for elders- they are usually the ones who send letters called TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS

almost 3 yrs ago i invited a bethel buddy of mine down who is one of the society lawyers to give a sat night program and sunday talk- David Olxxx

after his sat NIGHT talk we went back to our house for dinner along with 6 former bethelites and our wives- so while the girls were downstairs-- the fellows were upstairs talking about- what else -THE SOCIETY

He related an exp that shows how the Writing dept & the service dept make it so hard for the legal dept

he was pleading a case before a judge and unbeknown to him the judge had asked his clerk to gather some info on JW,

so when he finished the judge began to ask him some questions in relationship to the position of jw on certain matters, then out of the clear blue sky the judged asked him:

Do you teach that the Gov are ultimately under the control of the Devil

and do you teach that the Catholic church is under the control of the Devil?

so he told us that he tried to give the usual answer we give about the gov being a servant of god and allowed to serve there by god and the usual tip toe over egg shell tricks

but the judge kept pushing him on the issue till he finally had to admit that certain commets may have been made in some of our printed material

after he did that - the judge then stated = so i work for the devil and worship the devil as well- i will give you my ruling in 30days

they lost the arguement before the judge

so he was telling us that many of the judges today often times will quote statements that the society has made on certain matters.

so as he put it --the Writing dept often times make it very hard for them in the legal dept- as he phrased it:

"We have to clean up behind them, but with jah help we can do it"
***********
YEA RIGHT
**********

i relate that exp because it helps one to understand DA-

in many parts of the world if the Society takes action against a bro such as dfing for joining the army in that country it can be viewed as punishing a citizen for serving his country- due to the Formal Judical proceedings

so the society needed a way in which they could impose the same punishment without being libel- so that is were DA comes in at

it has the very same end result for the jw who is classified as such
as with a person who had a Formal Judical Proceeding and was DFed

DIFFERENCE being no formal procedure-

so the society gets a person to be viewed by the rank and file as DFed even though on paper he is classified as DA

and it protects them from the LAW due to no Formal Actions were taken

i firmly believe that in the coming yrs we will see more things moved from DFing Status to DA status and more things will be classified as "Conscience matters" WINK WINK

so even though it may be classified as a Conscience matter

they will be sure to indicate what a "Mature Christain" would do
and those who hold positions would do-

so if you decide to DA it is merely to fullfill some concept put together by bunch of Lawyers

but it is up to you-

many have stated-- why play by thier rules and i agree-

ask yourself this question

Where does this concept of writing religious lettters indicating you no longer want to sell books come from other than WT

it is thier rules and to me it merely shows that they still control a person

one of the wt most important tools is to be able to classify you:

Mature
weak
worldly
df
reproved
marked
approved assoicate
inactive
active
low hour publisher
strong publisher
etc

this classifcation system is very important in wt world due to the fact that it determines how they will deal with and treat you

why not confuse them and have some fun with it

smile

just my 2

JT

13

WTBTS & Child Abuse - by Friend @ H20

by waiting in

posted by friend <mailto: [email protected]> [friend] on january 09, 2001 at 17:38:54 {bwzcy8br/qhxal3hj3h2ognjr4br/g}: .

what is revealed about the societys motivations regarding the reporting (or not) of child abuse?

it is revealed that the society wants to keep reports of child abuse very private within jw circles.

JT

Your words are Golden-

smile

JT

62

Do we need a 'Faithful and Discrete Slave' ?

by ISP in

jw
friends

there is a thread already started on the subject of the fds elsewhere but i thought we may as well deal with aspect.. do we need a fds?.

what would we miss if we didn't have one?.

what additional new light do we need?.

JT

Amicus

Yes we did spend alot of time on those Silly issues

all the yrs that i gave public talks i never could bring myself to doing a "Prophecy" talk

I used to give a talk about "Love the ID of true christian"

i recall so many friends coming up to me after the meeting to tell me that"

"Our hall needed that"

and my wife and i would leave and discuss why- why -why- would the very ID mark of a person called a christian be so lacking among us as jw

we now i understand - we all were merely working for a Publishing Company

ck this out about 3 yrs ago i read in a Printing Trade Mag
that the WTBYS was the second largest printing outfit behind the US Gov Printing Office here in DC

and that is who you and i used to work for

how sad

JT

99

Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

by LDH in

jw
friends

hey all, hope you're having a great year so far.. before witnet was closed down, there was an interesting discussion regarding the fds and their failed prophecies.

i asked a question, but unfortunately there wasn't enought time to get everyone's view.. so i'll rephrase my posts, and wait to hear from y'all.. if we are so quick to say that the fds is a false prophet because of some failed prophecies (even tho they say they don't prophecy, we all know better) then how would you explain the bible book of jonah?.

a faithful prophet, jonah, followed (after much trial and tribulation to himself) jehovah's command to declare destruction on the city of nineveh.

JT

"Charles Taze Russell was "that faithful and wise slave." 'nuff said!"

"In the end, of course, those who do not conform after having been enlightening"

*******************
RR

Knowingly or Unknowingly you have clearly demostrated for all to see my point, and for that i can only thank you

as i had indicated the common thread that almost all belief systems share is the concept that "THEY GOT THE HOOKUP WITH GOD and you don't"

As mentioned in some belief systems folks are very Dogmatic as we can see above, while others don't want to make too much noise-

now let's take a look at his post without the "Spin Control" and cut to the chase:
******************

"In the end, of course, those who do not conform after having been enlightening"

*****************

"In the end" in the end of "WHAT"

- i can only assume and correct me if i'm wrong,

you are refering to the end of ones life thru death , but then you state

"OF COURSE" of course what??

now this part of his post drives home my point:

"THOSE WHO DO NOT CONFORM" aka "resistence is futile"

Conform to "WHAT?"

Billy Bob's explanation of the bible, or Annie Mae's or perhaps Russell? conform to whose explanation is where your problem starts.

they all represent someones opinion or best guess= which in and of itself is not bad

in fact i have often stated from the very first day i started posting that Russell was on the Money on many dogmas

in fact he and the wt would have been fine if and ONLY IF they had stayed with bible commentary

when they were merely students of the word and sharing thier research with folks -- they were fine

the problem kicked in when Russell decided to accept that others like yourself started to say:

Russell is the fulfullment of some bible prophecy matt 24:45/47

in other words some 2000yrs ago when matt was being recorded it was being written with russell in mind ---YEA RIGHT

as long as men such as him remain just student of the word they were fine , but when they allowed others and themselves to accept some "MANTLE" FROM That point forward they got into trouble and how sad

but back to your post-- now this is the best part here:

"AFTER HAVING BEEN ENLIGHTENING"

these are all CODE WORDS much like many of us saw in wt

"Mature Christians would do so and so"
"Spirtual Minded Youth would so and so"
" Those who have deep love for Jah consider Pioneering before a worldly career..."

so all he has done is exchanged one phrase for another

now if that is what a person wants to believe and follow-- COOL

BUT THE problem is always the same
"My ICE (aka religion/faith/belief system) is COLDER than yours"

as i stated before-- the end is always the same

"If you don't follow my belief system you will get the SHAFT in the end"

some folks like our friend here- RR just uses different words-- same meaning

just my 2

JT

99

Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

by LDH in

jw
friends

hey all, hope you're having a great year so far.. before witnet was closed down, there was an interesting discussion regarding the fds and their failed prophecies.

i asked a question, but unfortunately there wasn't enought time to get everyone's view.. so i'll rephrase my posts, and wait to hear from y'all.. if we are so quick to say that the fds is a false prophet because of some failed prophecies (even tho they say they don't prophecy, we all know better) then how would you explain the bible book of jonah?.

a faithful prophet, jonah, followed (after much trial and tribulation to himself) jehovah's command to declare destruction on the city of nineveh.

JT

"God loves you and it you don't believe it he's going to kill you."
###########

IT IS funny that you make this statement for this is the up against the wall statement that you can push almost any belief system up to the wall on

i know cause i have done it so many times just to make the point that
if i don't accept your belief system "I die right" smile

from christian to muslium and almost the whole deck of cards

you always end up in the 9th Ending back to your statement above

how sad

JT